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Thread: The Boulevard

  1. #26
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    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Villa T. needs to get moving like this.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: The Boulevard

    but Marva tho

  3. #28

    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Footings going in.


  4. #29

    Default Re: The Boulevard


  5. #30

    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Steel going up:


  6. #31

    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Assuming I have the project right, the developers of this had a proposal up in front of the City Council this morning for parallel parking spots along NW 11th next to the streetcar line. It just failed 8 to 1.

    https://twitter.com/OKC_SPAN/status/...190616064?s=20

  7. Default Re: The Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Assuming I have the project right, the developers of this had a proposal up in front of the City Council this morning for parallel parking spots along NW 11th next to the streetcar line. It just failed 8 to 1.

    https://twitter.com/OKC_SPAN/status/...190616064?s=20
    Yay! Thread also says that we've experienced 893 stoppages (62 per month) due to idiots parking on the line. This is absolutely absurd, ridiculous, and should never, ever, ever have gotten to that point. There needs to be at least one wrecker parked somewhere along the line that's on-call during streetcar operating hours, and just tow the ***holes IMMEDIATELY, and add a $100 stupidity surcharge on to the regular towing fees.

  8. #33

    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    Yay! Thread also says that we've experienced 893 stoppages (62 per month) due to idiots parking on the line. This is absolutely absurd, ridiculous, and should never, ever, ever have gotten to that point. There needs to be at least one wrecker parked somewhere along the line that's on-call during streetcar operating hours, and just tow the ***holes IMMEDIATELY, and add a $100 stupidity surcharge on to the regular towing fees.
    I've seen some escort vehicles, so why not replace those vehicles with wrecker trucks? Yeah some could be solved by folding in a mirror, but why not be more reactive and lay down the law a little to to speed up the street cars, these things are gonna fail if they aren't moving faster

  9. #34

    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    Yay! Thread also says that we've experienced 893 stoppages (62 per month) due to idiots parking on the line. This is absolutely absurd, ridiculous, and should never, ever, ever have gotten to that point. There needs to be at least one wrecker parked somewhere along the line that's on-call during streetcar operating hours, and just tow the ***holes IMMEDIATELY, and add a $100 stupidity surcharge on to the regular towing fees.
    Yeah, I don't know why we don't fine or have "real" consequences for most of these stoppages. Running in to a shop or a restaurant like "Who drives the red Kia?!" and then letting them move it doesn't feel like it's going to have an impact on how well that person pays attention to their parking job in the future. Unless you get towed, they do nothing.

    And I get what they're trying to do, but just saying "people don't know how to park, so we just aren't going to let them" doesn't feel like right answer.

  10. #35

    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by Swanky View Post
    Yeah, I don't know why we don't fine or have "real" consequences for most of these stoppages. Running in to a shop or a restaurant like "Who drives the red Kia?!" and then letting them move it doesn't feel like it's going to have an impact on how well that person pays attention to their parking job in the future. Unless you get towed, they do nothing.

    And I get what they're trying to do, but just saying "people don't know how to park, so we just aren't going to let them" doesn't feel like right answer.
    Completely agree. I know there are some car haters on the council now but this was kind of a dumb decision imo.

  11. Default Re: The Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Completely agree. I know there are some car haters on the council now but this was kind of a dumb decision imo.
    If you look at the map and renderings in the first post, there are 88 parking spaces behind the bldg, not to mention other lots on the same block, there's really no need for parallel parking in front if it would impact the streetcar in any way (which it would).

  12. #37

    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    If you look at the map and renderings in the first post, there are 88 parking spaces behind the bldg, not to mention other lots on the same block, there's really no need for parallel parking in front if it would impact the streetcar in any way (which it would).
    So with that thinking we should eliminate all parallel parking along the street car route, no?
    Of course we shouldnt, which is why these 6 spots were not going to matter to the street car much at all.

  13. #38

    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    So with that thinking we should eliminate all parallel parking along the street car route, no?
    Of course we shouldnt, which is why these 6 spots were not going to matter to the street car much at all.
    Yes we absolutely should eliminate parking along the streetcar route on the side of the street the line is on.

  14. Default Re: The Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    Yes we absolutely should eliminate parking along the streetcar route on the side of the street the line is on.

  15. #40

    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    Yes we absolutely should eliminate parking along the streetcar route on the side of the street the line is on.
    I agree.

    As an aside - it was sure stupid (and I know there were outside forces at play) to not run the streetcar down the middle of Broadway as opposed to the east side of the lane.

  16. #41

    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    So with that thinking we should eliminate all parallel parking along the street car route, no? .
    Sounds like a great idea, I'm glad you suggested it!

  17. #42

    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Maybe the reason theres been so many parking issues is enforcement, no one is getting punished for illegally parking, only 29 cars out of 893,

    Since the streetcar launched in December 2018, the service has been interrupted 893 times due to vehicles that are not properly parked in parallel parking spots alongside the tracks. In some instances, simply folding in a vehicle’s mirror allows the streetcar to safely pass, but since inception 29 vehicles have been towed.

    Also, when the streetcar largely serves people who have driven to downtown, more parking seems to make sense if you want more streetcar riders.

    “Most people riding the streetcar are not walking to get on the streetcar, they actually are driving from somewhere and they have to have a place to park to get on that streetcar,” said Burson. “So those six parking spaces that they just turned down would have been very close to two stations that you can catch the streetcar from.”

    “This proposed on-street parking supports new sales tax revenue,” said Fleming. “We’re going to have retail and restaurant in this development.”
    Each new parking stall can generate up to $300,000 in annual sales to a retail district, said Fleming.
    “The importance of having these stalls to each shopper or restaurant patron cannot be overemphasized,” he said.


    https://journalrecord.com/2019/11/06...g-plan-denied/

  18. #43
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    Default Re: The Boulevard

    If this is true, maybe the city can invest in some off-street parking and combine parking & streetcar as one fee. If you park in it you ride free on the streetcar. Get those cars off the street.

  19. #44

    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Do we need a Midtown parking garage on one of those giant empty lots as part of a denser development?

  20. Default Re: The Boulevard

    EXCERPT FROM DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT FRAMEWORK POLICY FRAMEWORK:
    2-4 Parking Priority
    On-street parking serves two essential functions in a downtown environment: 1) it provides a renewable supply of easily
    accessible, doorstep parking for customers; and 2) it provides a “barrier of steel” between pedestrians and moving traffic in high
    intensity urban environments. Though it fulfills only a fraction of total downtown parking demand, the “promise” of on-street
    parking is essential to nurturing development of a lively pedestrian environment, particularly along High Intensity, Storefront
    and Neighborhood Streets. The Framework divides the downtown street network into two levels of priority: primary parking and
    secondary parking streets. In most cases, on street, parallel parking will occur on both sides of the street. Secondary parking
    streets may include parallel parking on one or both sides. In some locations on street parking may be angled to make more
    effective use of limited space.

    EXCERPTS FROM WALKABLE CITY: HOW DOWNTOWN CAN SAVE AMERICA, ONE STEP AT A TIME - JEFF SPECK:
    It would seem that only one thing is more destructive to the health of our
    downtowns than welcoming cars unconditionally and that is getting rid of them
    entirely. The proper response to obesity is not to stop eating, and most stores need car
    traffic to survive. With autos reintroduced, most failed pedestrian malls, like Monroe
    Place in Grand Rapids, have come back at least partway. The key is to welcome cars
    in the proper number and at the proper speed.
    ----------
    What makes a sidewalk safe is not its width, but whether it is protected by a line of
    parked cars that form a barrier of steel between the pedestrian and the roadway. Have
    you ever tried sidewalk dining on a sidewalk without curbside parking? Those sorry
    little table installations rarely last long. Whether they are two feet away or ten feet
    away, nobody wants to sit—or walk—directly against a line of cars traveling at sixty
    feet per second. On-street parking also slows traffic down, since drivers are wary of
    other cars potentially pulling into the roadway
    ---------
    Few sidewalks without parking entice walking, yet cities routinely eliminate it in
    the name of traffic flow, beautification, and, more recently, security. Many curbs in
    Oklahoma City have lost their parking spaces based on the assumption that terrorist
    bombers are afraid of getting a parking ticket. This line of reasoning is so patently
    ridiculous that it has been embraced by the federal government.● Fortunately, at least
    local leadership has shown a capacity for reform: our new plan for OKC’s central
    business district more than doubles the number of on-street parking spaces—from
    fewer than eight hundred to more than sixteen hundred. According to the National
    Trust’s Main Street Center program, each eliminated on-street parking space costs an
    adjacent business ten thousand dollars each year in sales. If the inverse is true, we’ve
    just made Oklahoma City merchants $9 million richer every year.
    --------------
    The latest enemies of on-street parking to make the scene are two erstwhile friends:
    bikeways and transit lines. Stripping a sidewalk of its protection in order to add bike
    lanes is just sacrificing one form of nonmotorized transportation for another. And
    since transit depends on walkability for its success, any trolley system that undermines
    pedestrian comfort is shooting itself in the foot. If they are truly to offer an alternative
    to the automobile, bikes and trolleys must displace moving cars, not parked ones.

  21. Default Re: The Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Maybe the reason theres been so many parking issues is enforcement, no one is getting punished for illegally parking, only 29 cars out of 893,

    Since the streetcar launched in December 2018, the service has been interrupted 893 times due to vehicles that are not properly parked in parallel parking spots alongside the tracks. In some instances, simply folding in a vehicle’s mirror allows the streetcar to safely pass, but since inception 29 vehicles have been towed.

    Also, when the streetcar largely serves people who have driven to downtown, more parking seems to make sense if you want more streetcar riders.

    “Most people riding the streetcar are not walking to get on the streetcar, they actually are driving from somewhere and they have to have a place to park to get on that streetcar,” said Burson. “So those six parking spaces that they just turned down would have been very close to two stations that you can catch the streetcar from.”

    “This proposed on-street parking supports new sales tax revenue,” said Fleming. “We’re going to have retail and restaurant in this development.”
    Each new parking stall can generate up to $300,000 in annual sales to a retail district, said Fleming.
    “The importance of having these stalls to each shopper or restaurant patron cannot be overemphasized,” he said.


    https://journalrecord.com/2019/11/06...g-plan-denied/
    Right behind the building the 6 spaces are in front of are literally 88 spaces, and who knows how many more within a block. I have a really hard time buying that those 6 spots could generate up to $1.8 million annually (I don't have a JR subscription, so I can't see if there is any methodology behind his $300K/space). Those 6 spaces should never have even been up for discussion as being allowed. Having said that, yes, a park-and-ride scenario would probably be good somewhere for the streetcar.

  22. #47

    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by okieborn'nbred View Post
    EXCERPT FROM DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT FRAMEWORK POLICY FRAMEWORK:
    2-4 Parking Priority
    On-street parking serves two essential functions in a downtown environment: 1) it provides a renewable supply of easily
    accessible, doorstep parking for customers; and 2) it provides a “barrier of steel” between pedestrians and moving traffic in high
    intensity urban environments. Though it fulfills only a fraction of total downtown parking demand, the “promise” of on-street
    parking is essential to nurturing development of a lively pedestrian environment, particularly along High Intensity, Storefront
    and Neighborhood Streets. The Framework divides the downtown street network into two levels of priority: primary parking and
    secondary parking streets. In most cases, on street, parallel parking will occur on both sides of the street. Secondary parking
    streets may include parallel parking on one or both sides. In some locations on street parking may be angled to make more
    effective use of limited space.

    EXCERPTS FROM WALKABLE CITY: HOW DOWNTOWN CAN SAVE AMERICA, ONE STEP AT A TIME - JEFF SPECK:
    It would seem that only one thing is more destructive to the health of our
    downtowns than welcoming cars unconditionally and that is getting rid of them
    entirely. The proper response to obesity is not to stop eating, and most stores need car
    traffic to survive. With autos reintroduced, most failed pedestrian malls, like Monroe
    Place in Grand Rapids, have come back at least partway. The key is to welcome cars
    in the proper number and at the proper speed.
    ----------
    What makes a sidewalk safe is not its width, but whether it is protected by a line of
    parked cars that form a barrier of steel between the pedestrian and the roadway. Have
    you ever tried sidewalk dining on a sidewalk without curbside parking? Those sorry
    little table installations rarely last long. Whether they are two feet away or ten feet
    away, nobody wants to sit—or walk—directly against a line of cars traveling at sixty
    feet per second. On-street parking also slows traffic down, since drivers are wary of
    other cars potentially pulling into the roadway
    ---------
    Few sidewalks without parking entice walking, yet cities routinely eliminate it in
    the name of traffic flow, beautification, and, more recently, security. Many curbs in
    Oklahoma City have lost their parking spaces based on the assumption that terrorist
    bombers are afraid of getting a parking ticket. This line of reasoning is so patently
    ridiculous that it has been embraced by the federal government.● Fortunately, at least
    local leadership has shown a capacity for reform: our new plan for OKC’s central
    business district more than doubles the number of on-street parking spaces—from
    fewer than eight hundred to more than sixteen hundred. According to the National
    Trust’s Main Street Center program, each eliminated on-street parking space costs an
    adjacent business ten thousand dollars each year in sales. If the inverse is true, we’ve
    just made Oklahoma City merchants $9 million richer every year.
    --------------
    The latest enemies of on-street parking to make the scene are two erstwhile friends:
    bikeways and transit lines. Stripping a sidewalk of its protection in order to add bike
    lanes is just sacrificing one form of nonmotorized transportation for another. And
    since transit depends on walkability for its success, any trolley system that undermines
    pedestrian comfort is shooting itself in the foot. If they are truly to offer an alternative
    to the automobile, bikes and trolleys must displace moving cars, not parked ones.
    Thank you for posting this could not agree more. Laid out in sensible terms for all to see.

  23. #48

    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Do we need a Midtown parking garage on one of those giant empty lots as part of a denser development?
    There's plenty of parking in Midtown. At some point, people may have to walk a block or two to their destination, which is part of the purpose of the streetcar: Transforming the core into a more walkable environment. If OKC puts a parking garage on every block then that actually hurts the streetcar being used as a real form of transportation. Why take a streetcar if you can find parking everywhere all the time?

  24. #49

    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by dankrutka View Post
    There's plenty of parking in Midtown. At some point, people may have to walk a block or two to their destination, which is part of the purpose of the streetcar: Transforming the core into a more walkable environment. If OKC puts a parking garage on every block then that actually hurts the streetcar being used as a real form of transportation. Why take a streetcar if you can find parking everywhere all the time?
    This is pretty much true, and is a large part of the reason I have not found much personal use for the streetcar. There are very few locations along the streetcar route (and certainly none in Midtown) where I can't find free parking somewhere and walk to my destination in about the same time as it would take via the streetcar. And I'd much rather spend 15 minutes walking somewhere than wait 10 minutes for the streetcar and then ride it for 5 minutes (though this is admittedly a personal preference).

  25. #50

    Default Re: The Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by SEMIweather View Post
    This is pretty much true, and is a large part of the reason I have not found much personal use for the streetcar. There are very few locations along the streetcar route (and certainly none in Midtown) where I can't find free parking somewhere and walk to my destination in about the same time as it would take via the streetcar. And I'd much rather spend 15 minutes walking somewhere than wait 10 minutes for the streetcar and then ride it for 5 minutes (though this is admittedly a personal preference).
    You would be surprised how many people in OKC don't understand the concept of parking and walking to the destination. A perfect example is The Collective in Midtown. There are actual reviews online complaining about lack of dedicated parking and complaints about having to park in the lots and pay to use The Collective's little electric shuttle.

    Not only is the Collective within walking distance to a large parking garage, but it is also immersed within the core of the district that has free on-street parking everywhere around it. Oh, and there is also two streetcar stops within about 150 yards of it on both sides. OKC is pathetic when it comes to the mentality of walking.

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