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  1. #1

    Default Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    Anyone in Edmond driven through the new Kelly/Coffee Creek intersection lately? They FINALLY added a protected left turn lane . . . however, whoever redesigned it decided to shift traffic from 2 lanes down to 1 for like 25 feet and then back to the left turn lane and north bound lane. Rather than leave it two lanes with left turn only markings they made a very clogged intersection almost worse than it was before.

    Used to have the right lane marked as right turn only and the left lane was north bound or an unprotected left turn. So now we have all of these cars trying to go from the left lane to the new single right lane and then back to the left lane to turn. Makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

  2. Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyV View Post
    Anyone in Edmond driven through the new Kelly/Coffee Creek intersection lately? They FINALLY added a protected left turn lane . . . however, whoever redesigned it decided to shift traffic from 2 lanes down to 1 for like 25 feet and then back to the left turn lane and north bound lane. Rather than leave it two lanes with left turn only markings they made a very clogged intersection almost worse than it was before.

    Used to have the right lane marked as right turn only and the left lane was north bound or an unprotected left turn. So now we have all of these cars trying to go from the left lane to the new single right lane and then back to the left lane to turn. Makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
    Sounds like Edmond's street crew has been taking lessons from OKC's, which is really sad...

  3. #3

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    They totally botched the Santa Fe and Covell interception too. Weirdest intersection I’ve seen.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    Even though it seems weird, I think it is needed for safety and to make sure people don't clog up the left turn lane waiting to go straight (if they wait and don't just go). When designing roads you have to remember 1) People are stupid 2) People think they are the most important thing in the world.

    They did add some merge arrows which should help. I drive through there every day at morning and evening rush hour and it is much better than it used to be.

    Santa Fe and Covell is fine too, way better than it used to be. They made it a lot better with limited space and money, same with Coffee Creek and Kelley. I am happy with the partial solutions that help a lot now, as opposed to waiting a decade until they have the funds and need to fully expand everything.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    This intersection, like many others in Edmond/OKC, is an utter crisis. Unfathomable incompetence.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    I don't know why this state can't have nice things when it comes to roads, but this is just another stupid f*** up.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
    Even though it seems weird, I think it is needed for safety and to make sure people don't clog up the left turn lane waiting to go straight (if they wait and don't just go). When designing roads you have to remember 1) People are stupid 2) People think they are the most important thing in the world.

    They did add some merge arrows which should help. I drive through there every day at morning and evening rush hour and it is much better than it used to be.

    Santa Fe and Covell is fine too, way better than it used to be. They made it a lot better with limited space and money, same with Coffee Creek and Kelley. I am happy with the partial solutions that help a lot now, as opposed to waiting a decade until they have the funds and need to fully expand everything.
    Sounds about right. I haven't seen this intersection besides an older picture on google maps. Sounds like what they should widen the other side of the intersection and then merge back down to one lane. Sounds like they just stole space from old right turn only lane?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by jn1780 View Post
    Sounds about right. I haven't seen this intersection besides an older picture on google maps. Sounds like what they should widen the other side of the intersection and then merge back down to one lane. Sounds like they just stole space from old right turn only lane?
    Yeah, they added an extra lane on the north side of the intersection. Then made the right line a straight/right turn lane as opposed to turn only. They then made the left a left turn only. They also were able to add a left turn lane on the north side of the intersection. They did this as part of a resurface project that lasted one week and cost basically nothing to change the intersection.

    This is a massive improvement to this intersection, people complaining about it just shows that people will complain about roads no matter what you do with them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the solution from a traffic or safety issue, especially considering they were able to do it in one week and for basically free.

    If you can't handle a "Lane ends, Merge Right" you probably shouldn't have a driving license. They merge you to the right because if they didn't people would stay in the left lane then stop waiting for a chance to get over and go straight. Or worse, would just go straight from the left lane like they had the right of way. And considering this intersection is nearly all local traffic people should've figured it out within a week.

    The real thing to complain about is how they didn't include this intersection when they expanded Kelly 5 years ago.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
    Even though it seems weird, I think it is needed for safety and to make sure people don't clog up the left turn lane waiting to go straight (if they wait and don't just go). When designing roads you have to remember 1) People are stupid 2) People think they are the most important thing in the world.

    They did add some merge arrows which should help. I drive through there every day at morning and evening rush hour and it is much better than it used to be.

    Santa Fe and Covell is fine too, way better than it used to be. They made it a lot better with limited space and money, same with Coffee Creek and Kelley. I am happy with the partial solutions that help a lot now, as opposed to waiting a decade until they have the funds and need to fully expand everything.
    Re covell/Santa fe...I’ll respectfully disagree that this intersection is “fine”. Better than it was? Of course. It was a disaster so that’s stating the obvious. Almost the 1st week it opened the guard rail was hit because it was placed too close to the northbound right turn lane. They moved to guard rail east and it’s still an awkward turn. So much that the west bound bound lanes on covell have to stop well back from the light so northbound drivers turning right don’t hit them.

    Santa Fe should have been 4 landed from it’s existing spot where 4 lanes end north to the light. What they did was a band aid. If you’re gonna do it, do it right.

    I’ll ignore the stupid people comment assuming you were just using it as an “in general” comment.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by tsou89 View Post
    Re covell/Santa fe...I’ll respectfully disagree that this intersection is “fine”. Better than it was? Of course. It was a disaster so that’s stating the obvious. Almost the 1st week it opened the guard rail was hit because it was placed too close to the northbound right turn lane. They moved to guard rail east and it’s still an awkward turn. So much that the west bound bound lanes on covell have to stop well back from the light so northbound drivers turning right don’t hit them.

    Santa Fe should have been 4 landed from it’s existing spot where 4 lanes end north to the light. What they did was a band aid. If you’re gonna do it, do it right.

    I’ll ignore the stupid people comment assuming you were just using it as an “in general” comment.
    The northbound turn from Sante Fe to Covell is the most dangerous turn in Edmond. It's a complete 90 degree angled turn. NOBODY does that. If you take that turn, even at normal turn speeds, you are going to wreck. It's terrible.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by tsou89 View Post
    Re covell/Santa fe...I’ll respectfully disagree that this intersection is “fine”. Better than it was? Of course. It was a disaster so that’s stating the obvious. Almost the 1st week it opened the guard rail was hit because it was placed too close to the northbound right turn lane. They moved to guard rail east and it’s still an awkward turn. So much that the west bound bound lanes on covell have to stop well back from the light so northbound drivers turning right don’t hit them.

    Santa Fe should have been 4 landed from it’s existing spot where 4 lanes end north to the light. What they did was a band aid. If you’re gonna do it, do it right.

    I’ll ignore the stupid people comment assuming you were just using it as an “in general” comment.
    I'll agree the turns at Covell Santa Fe are too tight, I still think it was the best solution given the constraints, though.

    The "you" in my last post was "in general" not directed at you personally. But outside of the first few days of the change at Coffee Creek and Kelly, I haven't seen any issues with the new setup.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
    Even though it seems weird, I think it is needed for safety and to make sure people don't clog up the left turn lane waiting to go straight (if they wait and don't just go). When designing roads you have to remember 1) People are stupid 2) People think they are the most important thing in the world.
    How is going from two lanes down to one and then back to two with a protected left turn lane safer and less congested than it was before? I get what you're saying about people clogging up the left lane to turn, but had they left it alone and added the protected turn and removed the right turn only requirement it would've been much better IMO.


    They did add some merge arrows which should help. I drive through there every day at morning and evening rush hour and it is much better than it used to be.
    I avoid it now due to this idiotic design so you're welcome. But I completely disagree with going from two lanes down to one and then back to two being any sort of improvement.

    Santa Fe and Covell is fine too, way better than it used to be.
    It is . . . but still could've been designed much safer. How many times have folks heading east on Covell hit the guard rail?

    They made it a lot better with limited space and money, same with Coffee Creek and Kelley. I am happy with the partial solutions that help a lot now, as opposed to waiting a decade until they have the funds and need to fully expand everything.
    All Coffee Creek and Kelley needed was the protected turn lane and removal of the right turn only restriction.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
    Yeah, they added an extra lane on the north side of the intersection. Then made the right line a straight/right turn lane as opposed to turn only. They then made the left a left turn only. They also were able to add a left turn lane on the north side of the intersection. They did this as part of a resurface project that lasted one week and cost basically nothing to change the intersection.
    They did a little more than make the left lane a left turn only . . . And they still screwed it up.

    This is a massive improvement to this intersection, people complaining about it just shows that people will complain about roads no matter what you do with them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the solution from a traffic or safety issue, especially considering they were able to do it in one week and for basically free.
    Describing this as a massive improvement is crazy. While I'm glad the left turn lane is now protected and folks no longer clog up the northbound lane all they needed to do was ad the light and and remove the right turn only restriction. Merging the lanes was/is stupid.

    If you can't handle a "Lane ends, Merge Right" you probably shouldn't have a driving license.
    Folks can handle then just fine when warranted. This particular location is worse due to the merge IMO.

    They merge you to the right because if they didn't people would stay in the left lane then stop waiting for a chance to get over and go straight. Or worse, would just go straight from the left lane like they had the right of way. And considering this intersection is nearly all local traffic people should've figured it out within a week.
    Um. What?

    Holy crap. They could've accomplished everything you're raving about and left the left hand lane completely alone. There is no need to merge from two lanes into one lane for 20-50 feet or less and then back to two lanes. That is most definitely not safer for anyone.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyV View Post
    They did a little more than make the left lane a left turn only . . . And they still screwed it up.

    Describing this as a massive improvement is crazy. While I'm glad the left turn lane is now protected and folks no longer clog up the northbound lane all they needed to do was ad the light and and remove the right turn only restriction. Merging the lanes was/is stupid.

    Folks can handle then just fine when warranted. This particular location is worse due to the merge IMO.

    Um. What?

    Holy crap. They could've accomplished everything you're raving about and left the left hand lane completely alone. There is no need to merge from two lanes into one lane for 20-50 feet or less and then back to two lanes. That is most definitely not safer for anyone.
    They do not go from 2 lanes to 1 lane back to 2 lanes. They go from 2 lanes, to 1 one lane, to a 1 one lane plus a turn lane. They do this because if they didn't people would get to the left turn only lane and either just go straight without realizing it was left turn only and cause accidents, or they would stop and wait for an opportunity to merge right, blocking the left turn lane. This happens all the time a intersections designed this way, which is why they aren't designed that way any more. This already happened all the time with the right turn only lane, it would've been worse with a left turn only l

    Traffic is massively improved in this location, I really don't understand what the complaining is about. Its almost like people with degrees in traffic engineering, used traffic modelling to make appropriate design decisions even though it seems weird to a handful of lay people that are upset they don't have to sit in 1/3 mile of traffic anymore.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
    They do not go from 2 lanes to 1 lane back to 2 lanes. They go from 2 lanes, to 1 one lane, to a 1 one lane plus a turn lane.
    The point that you either aren't grasping or are refusing to grasp is that there is absolutely no need to merge from 2 to 1 at all here. Simply flipping the turn only requirement from the right lane to the left lane is all they needed to do here.

    They do this because if they didn't people would get to the left turn only lane and either just go straight without realizing it was left turn only and cause accidents, or they would stop and wait for an opportunity to merge right, blocking the left turn lane. This happens all the time a intersections designed this way, which is why they aren't designed that way any more. This already happened all the time with the right turn only lane, it would've been worse with a left turn only l
    Edmond is full of intersections with unprotected left turns. Most of them aren't designed like the Kelly/CC intersection. The lanes stay in place with the appropriate markings indicating what the lanes are used for . . . where is there another intersection in Edmond with an idiotic design like this one?

    Traffic is massively improved in this location, I really don't understand what the complaining is about. Its almost like people with degrees in traffic engineering, used traffic modelling to make appropriate design decisions even though it seems weird to a handful of lay people that are upset they don't have to sit in 1/3 mile of traffic anymore.
    All of my engineer friends say that folks who made C's in their undergrad engineering programs become highway/traffic engineers. I think they're correct in this particular case.

    Traffic has likely massively improved because smart folks who took that route home have probably started avoiding it due to the idiotic design . . .

    Regardless, adding a protected left turn lane is great. That part is better. I have a problem (apparently I'm all alone in this) with merging and then unmerging like they did. I find it completely unnecessary and have seen it almost cause more crashes than how it was designed before due to people waiting until the last minute to merge and then moving back to the left to turn. I rarely saw that with the right turn only lane before.

    We're apparently never going to agree about this . . . oh well.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    I think the main reason behind the design is you would likely get a lot of nincompoop who would continue straight onto the left turn lane thinking it goes straight and upon approaching the intersection they stop, put their turn right turn signal and try and move to the thru lane, or just some stupid sh!t and nearly cause a wreck. It seems to me the city is just herding the cattle. There's no guarantee traffic would flow better the other design. This was done to improve traffic flow through the intersections according to the city and recently I was told after several unanswered emails the Covell Parkway master plan has been set back.

    The "new" mayor of Edmond was behind pretty much every group to kill a truly unique project for Edmond like the Spring Creek expansion, Coffee Creek Commercial proposal, 18 on Park, etc. and with the recent developments of the downtown parking garage, Performing arts buildings, transit station master plan, being put on an indefinite hold, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to support any kind of 'transformative' growth. I say that because it seems with recent cost estimates, a new bond package on top of the current ones would be needed to expedite a proper widening of this intersection and that would almost certainly higher taxes. I wouldn't expect a proposal like that to happen with the current mayor but I'd love to be proven wrong.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    I think the main reason behind the design is you would likely get a lot of nincompoop who would continue straight onto the left turn lane thinking it goes straight and upon approaching the intersection they stop, put their turn right turn signal and try and move to the thru lane, or just some stupid sh!t and nearly cause a wreck. It seems to me the city is just herding the cattle. There's no guarantee traffic would flow better the other design. This was done to improve traffic flow through the intersections according to the city and recently I was told after several unanswered emails the Covell Parkway master plan has been set back.

    The "new" mayor of Edmond was behind pretty much every group to kill a truly unique project for Edmond like the Spring Creek expansion, Coffee Creek Commercial proposal, 18 on Park, etc. and with the recent developments of the downtown parking garage, Performing arts buildings, transit station master plan, being put on an indefinite hold, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to support any kind of 'transformative' growth. I say that because it seems with recent cost estimates, a new bond package on top of the current ones would be needed to expedite a proper widening of this intersection and that would almost certainly higher taxes. I wouldn't expect a proposal like that to happen with the current mayor but I'd love to be proven wrong.
    What happened with these items?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    What happened with these items?
    Well the parking garage and the performing arts center are on hold from my understanding. Transit center is an assumption on my part but this current mayor doesn’t seem to be the biggest supporter of growth and I am not sure what his position is on connecting Edmond to the proposed regional rail transit network. Mayor Lamb was very much in favor of it and building up downtown Edmond. I’ll probably email a few council members and see what’s up.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    There is nothing wrong with the CC/Kelly intersection. It allows thru traffic to not sit and wait for cars waiting to turn left onto CC. Just follow the traffic pattern. Is it really that hard? Panda is right -- if it were striped the other way you would have cars not realizing it was a left turn only and continue straight when vehicles in the right lane are continuing straight therefore causing a collision. The reason is because without the other side not being widened, the thru traffic as it is has to jog a little to the left while in the intersection. If you make the right lane right turn only, it defeats the whole purpose.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    There is nothing wrong with the CC/Kelly intersection. It allows thru traffic to not sit and wait for cars waiting to turn left onto CC. Just follow the traffic pattern. Is it really that hard? Panda is right -- if it were striped the other way you would have cars not realizing it was a left turn only and continue straight when vehicles in the right lane are continuing straight therefore causing a collision. The reason is because without the other side not being widened, the thru traffic as it is has to jog a little to the left while in the intersection. If you make the right lane right turn only, it defeats the whole purpose. People are going to do what they want anyway. I drive through here daily and see folks ignoring the striping patterns and not merging and doing whatever they want to as they approach the intersection. It doesn't bother me as long as I'm not cut off or put into danger in any way. But we'd be all better off if folks would just follow the striping.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Kelly/Coffee Creek Turn Lane

    There is nothing wrong with the CC/Kelly intersection. It allows thru traffic to not sit and wait for cars waiting to turn left onto CC. Just follow the traffic pattern. Is it really that hard? Panda is right -- if it were striped the other way you would have cars not realizing it was a left turn only and continue straight when vehicles in the right lane are continuing straight therefore causing a collision. The reason is because without the other side not being widened, the thru traffic as it is has to jog a little to the left while in the intersection. If you make the right lane right turn only, it defeats the whole purpose. People are going to do what they want anyway. I drive through here daily and see folks ignoring the striping patterns and not merging and doing whatever they want to as they approach the intersection. It doesn't bother me as long as I'm not cut off or put into danger in any way. But we'd be all better off if folks would just follow the striping. If it doesn't make sense then just call the city engineer's office to inquire and discuss.

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