MAPS 4 Stadium

[SagerMichael]

It is a shame that similar cities on similar scales as OKC get this big investment private or not on these billion dollar entertainment districts while OKC is fighting over a $30 million dollar stadium. Kansas City, Portland, Indy, Cincinnati, Columbus all have incredibly nice stadiums and are MLS. Why not OKC?

[SEMIweather]

All five of those cities (a) have a metro population at least 50% larger than that of OKC's and (b) don't have ownership running their soccer franchises into the ground.

[dcsooner]

I don't think his reference is to population but to the cities desire and ability to build Quality venues that attract investment. OKC has done well but as we continue to see, most plans for truly impactful development are most often scaled back due to any number of reasons resulting in structures that do not enhance promote further investment, significantly enhance the city's visual appeal or its stature. In other words things are built on the cheap (relatively speaking).

[chssooner]

I don't think his reference is to population but to the cities desire and ability to build Quality venues that attract investment. OKC has done well but as we continue to see, most plans for truly impactful development are most often scaled back due to any number of reasons resulting in structures that do not enhance promote further investment, significantly enhance the city's visual appeal or its stature. In other words things are built on the cheap (relatively speaking).

There are plenty of crappy, scaled back developments there. You just won't hear about them on an OKC forum. You think people in Indy hear about any of our crappy developments? No. But they hear about the FAM and Convention Center (both made national headlines). We don't hear about the dreck, or scaled back developments in those cities, but the Indy version of OKCTalk probably has plenty about them. "Familiarity breeds contempt" is the tone of your post.

[HOT ROD]

I'd have to agree with DC on this one. OKC seems to be persistent in bait and switch development; IF we ever even get it. I am aware other cities also get disappointing development but we're talking about this awesome one that Indy is doing as an example of what OKC should be striving for and not just a reproduction of Taft stadium.

Yes, Indy is bigger and been around longer, but there are many examples of cities smaller than OKC that have better development aspirations too. Take your pic OKC, play with the big boys and strive for bigger/better development OR at least have better than smaller cities. I think OKC is probably going in the right direction, we'll see how the Myriad site development works out for the new arena - I expect something similar to the Indy site and if so; that'd be a huge catalyst to lift OKC likely beyond peer cities if done right.

[Laramie]

OKC MAPS 4 has projected multipurpose stadium will have $41 million: https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-...urpose-stadium

That could change because the state is looking at cutting taxes: Stitt's plan presented in his executive budget proposal to lawmakers and delivered his fifth State of the State address to a joint legislative session called for lawmakers to eliminate the state sales tax on groceries and cut the individual and corporate income tax rates.

Flush with cash, Oklahoma governor pushes for more tax cuts: https://apnews.com/article/abortion-...5f75e955c8f558

[king183]

OKC MAPS 4 has projected multipurpose stadium will have $41 million: https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-...urpose-stadium

That could change because the state is looking at cutting taxes: Stitt's plan presented in his executive budget proposal to lawmakers and delivered his fifth State of the State address to a joint legislative session called for lawmakers to eliminate the state sales tax on groceries and cut the individual and corporate income tax rates.

Flush with cash, Oklahoma governor pushes for more tax cuts: https://apnews.com/article/abortion-...5f75e955c8f558

Cutting the state’s grocery sales tax would have no effect on MAPS collections, nor would a cut to the income tax rates. Not sure how you’re drawing a connection between them.

[Laramie]

Good point, king183:

Thanks for the reminder that it's the state's portion of sales tax on groceries.

The only group that benefits for no tax on groceries are recipients of snap food stamp benefits. If they are cutting only the 4.5% the state collects, then it wouldn't have any effect on the city.

When will a full exemption go into place or are they planning to phrase out the state's sales tax on groceries if a measure is passed---by the House and Senate.

[chssooner]

I'd have to agree with DC on this one. OKC seems to be persistent in bait and switch development; IF we ever even get it. I am aware other cities also get disappointing development but we're talking about this awesome one that Indy is doing as an example of what OKC should be striving for and not just a reproduction of Taft stadium.

Yes, Indy is bigger and been around longer, but there are many examples of cities smaller than OKC that have better development aspirations too. Take your pic OKC, play with the big boys and strive for bigger/better development OR at least have better than smaller cities. I think OKC is probably going in the right direction, we'll see how the Myriad site development works out for the new arena - I expect something similar to the Indy site and if so; that'd be a huge catalyst to lift OKC likely beyond peer cities if done right.

Do you follow those cities as religiously as you do OKC? Or do you just see their successes?

[Just the facts]

You guys should move to Jacksonville, FL if you want to see disappointment on a regular basis.

[mugofbeer]

I'd have to agree with DC on this one. OKC seems to be persistent in bait and switch development; IF we ever even get it. I am aware other cities also get disappointing development but we're talking about this awesome one that Indy is doing as an example of what OKC should be striving for and not just a reproduction of Taft stadium.

Yes, Indy is bigger and been around longer, but there are many examples of cities smaller than OKC that have better development aspirations too. Take your pic OKC, play with the big boys and strive for bigger/better development OR at least have better than smaller cities. I think OKC is probably going in the right direction, we'll see how the Myriad site development works out for the new arena - I expect something similar to the Indy site and if so; that'd be a huge catalyst to lift OKC likely beyond peer cities if done right.

Every city has gives and takes. I drove through Indiana and Indianapolis recently and while lndianapolis has wonderful stadiums, the highways are absolutely atrocious! Interstates are poorly paved, construction slowdowns every few miles but few actually had active construction. Interstate thru downtown lndy is completely closed.

[bombermwc]

Good point, king183:

Thanks for the reminder that it's the state's portion of sales tax on groceries.

The only group that benefits for no tax on groceries are recipients of snap food stamp benefits. If they are cutting only the 4.5% the state collects, then it wouldn't have any effect on the city.

When will a full exemption go into place or are they planning to phrase out the state's sales tax on groceries if a measure is passed---by the House and Senate.

Might be helpful to elaborate on that for some folks because i think it's not been clearly discussed in a way that people understand. So the misunderstanding here was a natural one.

If the state removes their taxes, it's on the state's taxes that come off. The state is not preventing any federal or municipal taxes from being levied. So you aren't going to see a 4.99 item on the shelf and then only pay 4.99 at checkout. It won't be as high as it is today, but it won't be 4.99.

Example, when i went to Crest in Moore this weekend, my total taxes were 8.5%. So i payed about 3.80 on my roughly $44 bill, totaling to about 48.50.
If the state taxes are taken out, then it means I'll be paying about 4% in Moore. That bill would have been about 1.78 in taxes for a total of 46.50. Live it up with those $2 folks. It'll be about $20 monthly between all your grocery trips for an average family.

Honestly, i think it's a bit of a mistake. It sounds good to voters, but when you crunch it out, it doesn't mean anything. What it does mean is about 68 million in lost revenue to the state though. THAT is something to talk about.

[Laramie]

Just saw where Nashville new MLS Stadium hosted NYC. This is one of the larger new soccer specific stadiums.


Hope our Multipurpose Stadium is equipped to handle in excess of 20,000.

Also any update on the USL Oklahoma City Energy.

[chssooner]

We need to figure out something else to do with these MAPS funds. The Energy are essentially dead, and the MLS has 15 markets that should be ahead of OKC. So these funds could be used for something else.

[Urbanized]

We need to figure out something else to do with these MAPS funds. The Energy are essentially dead, and the MLS has 15 markets that should be ahead of OKC. So these funds could be used for something else.

25 years ago Guy Liebmann ran for mayor vs Kirk Humphreys and the bulk of Guy's platform was to abandon the idea of a MAPS-funded arena and to instead divert those funds to public safety (namely police cars). His point was that OKC didn't have a team worthy of the facility, and none was on the horizon, so it was a colossal waste of money.

Humphreys ran on the platform of "Finish MAPS Right," and the idea that since voters had approved a ballot that included an arena City officials were bound by oath to deliver. Kirk won, and the rest is history.

By the way, redirecting MAPS funds to non-MAPS projects was illegal with that first MAPS ordinance, although it might be a bit more pliable with the more recent iteration (thanks to state decisions regarding log rolling).

[PaddyShack]

I am a fan of soccer, and as such I did support the Energy. My two cents, we need to build the stadium. We should find a new ownership group for the Energy. I believe the USL is set up for success and I see it being very competitive with MLS as far as quality of the product on the field. MLS is just too much of a money grab at this point. As a fan of the game first, I much prefer the USL model and I think a soccer specific stadium along with a soccer-first ownership group, we could be very competitive among the top USL clubs. People need to stop with this "farm league" idea, USL is not a farm league and though it is 2nd tier below the MLS, it doesn't matter because we don't have pro/rel. I think the USL is a great fit for OKC, especially with having a team up in Tulsa.

[chssooner]

25 years ago Guy Liebmann ran for mayor vs Kirk Humphreys and the bulk of Guy's platform was to abandon the idea of a MAPS-funded arena and to instead divert those funds to public safety (namely police cars). His point was that OKC didn't have a team worthy of the facility, and none was on the horizon, so it was a colossal waste of money.

Humphreys ran on the platform of "Finish MAPS Right," and the idea that since voters had approved a ballot that included an arena City officials were bound by oath to deliver. Kirk won, and the rest is history.

By the way, redirecting MAPS funds to non-MAPS projects was illegal with that first MAPS ordinance, although it might be a bit more pliable with the more recent iteration (thanks to state decisions regarding log rolling).

I am not saying it is doable right now. I'm saying we should find a way to do it. An arena can be used for tons of money-making purposes. How many does a soccer stadium have, especially in a state where 5 to 6 months a year, it is hit or miss whether it can be used consistently. The Ford Center wasn't built for an NBA team, but could have concerts and events. Not sure how many a soccer stadium can have.

Not saying to think small. But not having a team any longer makes this stadium inefficient for the city. I know it can't be done, but it should be done (mo ey diverted to another purpose). Just looking at a highest and best use, not intended use.

[April in the Plaza]

25 years ago Guy Liebmann ran for mayor vs Kirk Humphreys and the bulk of Guy's platform was to abandon the idea of a MAPS-funded arena and to instead divert those funds to public safety (namely police cars). His point was that OKC didn't have a team worthy of the facility, and none was on the horizon, so it was a colossal waste of money.

Humphreys ran on the platform of "Finish MAPS Right," and the idea that since voters had approved a ballot that included an arena City officials were bound by oath to deliver. Kirk won, and the rest is history.

By the way, redirecting MAPS funds to non-MAPS projects was illegal with that first MAPS ordinance, although it might be a bit more pliable with the more recent iteration (thanks to state decisions regarding log rolling).

Surely, if circumstances have materially changed, the soccer stadium money could be allocated to other MAPS 4 projects or projects tangentially related to MAPS 4 (i.e., a new arena for the Thunder).

[mugofbeer]

I am not saying it is doable right now. I'm saying we should find a way to do it. An arena can be used for tons of money-making purposes. How many does a soccer stadium have, especially in a state where 5 to 6 months a year, it is hit or miss whether it can be used consistently. The Ford Center wasn't built for an NBA team, but could have concerts and events. Not sure how many a soccer stadium can have.

Not saying to think small. But not having a team any longer makes this stadium inefficient for the city. I know it can't be done, but it should be done (mo ey diverted to another purpose). Just looking at a highest and best use, not intended use.

The soccer stadium in Denver is frequently used for lsrge-scale concerts and music festivals as well as other sports. It gets plenty of use.

[Just the facts]

Heartland Bowl. Just throwing that out there.

[Laramie]

I am a fan of soccer, and as such I did support the Energy. My two cents, we need to build the stadium. We should find a new ownership group for the Energy. I believe the USL is set up for success and I see it being very competitive with MLS as far as quality of the product on the field. MLS is just too much of a money grab at this point. As a fan of the game first, I much prefer the USL model and I think a soccer specific stadium along with a soccer-first ownership group, we could be very competitive among the top USL clubs. People need to stop with this "farm league" idea, USL is not a farm league and though it is 2nd tier below the MLS, it doesn't matter because we don't have pro/rel. I think the USL is a great fit for OKC, especially with having a team up in Tulsa.

My suggested solution to the continued delays of the USL Funk ownership group is this--let's find a competent ownership group that knows how to manage a USL team. Funks' track record on nearly everything sports related they've managed in Oklahoma City has failed:

IGA Tennis
Oklahoma City Barons AAA Hockey
Oklahoma City Energy FC

Funks are a poison suicide pill for Oklahoma City sports.

.

[Just the facts]

Don't forget their role in what was supposed to be the American Le Mans Oklahoma City Grand Prix.

[Bill Robertson]

The soccer stadium in Denver is frequently used for lsrge-scale concerts and music festivals as well as other sports. It gets plenty of use.

So does the one in Frisco, Tx. We've seen Jimmy Buffet there twice. It makes a good outdoor concert venue.

[chssooner]

Again, those have a main user, a professional soccer team. That guarantees you use about 20 to 30 times a year.

Believe it or not, OKC isn't as large as Denver or DFW. I'm not sure if you guys were aware of that fact or not.

[Bill Robertson]

We have heard a soccer team and could continue with proper ownership and management. Not that I care. I can't stand soccer but I'm all for people that love it.
And I don't know about Denver but Frisco's stadium isn't all that big. It's really what makes it a good concert venue.