MAPS 4 Stadium

[Mott]

Just spent several nights in an Airbnb in The Hill, and wish we had QUOTE=stlokc;1086913]This is going to be a "one and done" post because I've started down the rabbit hole of St. Louis vs. OKC before and nobody really cares (nor should they) but I do think I should answer for the context of the discussion.
Just spent several nights in an Airbnb in the Hill, and I wish we had the farmers markets (Tower Grove Park), bakeries (Union Loafers, Nathaniel Reid),Art Museums, Forest Park, etc...
St. Louis is a stagnant market. The metro area grows at about 2% a decade. The city itself (which is a small fraction of the metro area due to being old and hemmed in by suburbs in the early 1900s) consistently falls in population, traditionally it was due to white flight and now it's primarily gentrification, where, say, a 6-unit apartment building becomes a 3-unit condo bldg. That and old Catholic families that used to have 8 children now have 2 children in this generation.

Anyway, the primary differentiator, beyond size, is strength of the soccer market. In the STL metro area, soccer is a much bigger deal than football for example. Kids grow up playing it, and whereas in OKC they gravitate to football in junior high, in STL the "cool athletic kids" tend to stay in soccer. It's a cultural thing. Not making a value judgement. There are literally more club teams and traveling teams among high schoolers than I can count. Also there is a history of European immigrant enclaves where it's a big deal. Also, St. Louis University has traditionally been a soccer powerhouse. All that to say that STL overshoots for it's size when it comes to soccer. The MLS has always wanted to be here. But the last vote was only within the city proper, as opposed to the whole metro area voting on it. Imagine an OKC that ended at NW 36th street and SW 44th street. It was never going to succeed. Whether it should have succeeded is a matter of opinion. But only about 15% of the metro area had the chance to vote on it.

We could go down the road of OKC "catching" STL someday, or STL "declining" but I don't really think that's what this thread is about.[/QUOTE]

[Laramie]

St. Louis is a shinning example, equipped in so many ways, other cities could learn by her example.

Oklahoma City has 16 projects to be presented before the voters December 10, 2019. Still lots of work to be done, our input will be needed. Let's TOGETHER give it our best shot as we go FORWARD.

[dford2]

St. Louis is a shinning example, equipped in so many ways, other cities could learn by her example.

Oklahoma City has 16 projects to be presented before the voters December 10, 2019. Still lots of work to be done, our input will be needed. Let's TOGETHER give it our best shot as we go FORWARD.

Because it's more enjoyable to complain and do nothing to help improve the process. (yes, tongue in cheek)

[Laramie]

Because it's more enjoyable to complain and do nothing to help improve the process. (yes, tongue in cheek)

Agree man, that's a no brainer. . .

[Laramie]

USL Announces Agreement with Premier Partnerships
By Soccer Stadium Digest Editors on August 30, 2019 in USL, USL DIII

USL has announced a long-term agreement with Premier Partnerships, meaning that the sponsorship sales and consulting firm will represent USL Championship and USL League One.

Proposed OKC Energy Stadium 2
MAPS 4 Proposal with OKC Energy Stadium Funds Moves Forward
By Zach Spedden on August 28, 2019 in USL



MAPS 4 Proposal with OKC Energy Stadium Funds Moves Forward: https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/

A MAPS 4 initiative that includes funding for a new OKC Energy stadium has moved forward, as the Oklahoma City Council is sending it to a December voter referendum.



Founded by industry veterans Alan Rothenberg and Randy Bernstein, Premier Partnerships has been at the forefront of major recent naming rights and sponsorship agreements in North American soccer, having helped secure deals for the naming rights to Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta and Orlando City SC’s Exploria Stadium. Since its founding 16 years ago, the organization has worked with teams and leagues from the NFL, the NBA, the NHL, Major League Baseball, Major League Soccer as well as numerous international properties.

“Our agreement with Premier Partnerships marks another major step forward for the USL in the commercial realm,” said USL SVP of Corporate Development & Partnerships Josh Keller. “The visibility of the Championship is at an all-time high, and will continue to grow under our renewed partnership with ESPN, and the presence of League One offers a large range of inventory for potential partners looking to reach the vibrant audience that make up the fanbases within our leagues across the United States and Canada.”

Following the announcement earlier this week of a new three-year broadcast deal with ESPN, the USL’s agreement with Premier Partnerships begins a major drive toward establishing key founding level, presenting level, and entitlement partners for both the USL Championship and League One which will accelerate revenue growth for the organization and its clubs.

“Representing the commercial rights for such a vibrant and fast-growing sports league is a perfect match for Premier and our three US offices,” said Premier President John Kristick. “With the FIFA World Cup coming to North America in 2026, USL provides an exciting and effective soccer platform for marketers.”

The USL Championship will enter its 10th anniversary season in the 2020 campaign, while USL League One will enter its second season. This year, the leagues will combine for more than 750 live games in the regular season as the USL brings professional soccer to more communities in North America than any

[OKC2017]

according to sports illustrated sacramento will become the 29th team of major league soccer.
that means there is only one expansion team award left with expansion beyond 30 teams extremely unlikely.
for okc that means the possibility of bringing its own expansion team in and therefore the justification for this stadium severely hampered.
i insist the idea of a pro soccer stadium in the downtown area is great but not if its financed with public money, that's all.

https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/10/16...expansion-team

[dankrutka]

OKC is very unlikely to get a MLS team any time soon. This news doesn't really affect anything and if you're voting for a stadium based on that then you should reconsider regardless.

[chuck5815]

OKC is very unlikely to get a MLS team any time soon. This news doesn't really affect anything and if you're voting for a stadium based on that then you should reconsider regardless.

Professional Basketball is one thing. Subsidizing minor league soccer with the hope that it becomes professional at some point is another.

Plus, the Funks have plenty of Temping Cash to do this on their own account.

Tell those B****es to go apply for a commercial mortgage like the rest of us.

[OKCRT]

Professional Basketball is one thing. Subsidizing minor league soccer with the hope that it becomes professional at some point is another.

Plus, the Funks have plenty of Temping Cash to do this on their own account.

Tell those B****es to go apply for a commercial mortgage like the rest of us.

Just Say NO!

OKC has O chance for the 30th spot. Keep trying for MLS then bring the stadium up for vote with owner paying a nice %. That is how it's done. The days of 100 % public financed stadiums are OVER! Esp for minor sports.

[gopokes88]

One of those 30 franchises will fail and okc might be in a good position for the relocation, promotion/relegation etc. that was always the pitch

[OKCRT]

One of those 30 franchises will fail and okc might be in a good position for the relocation, promotion/relegation etc. that was always the pitch

If they get their stadium now for the minor league team I would bet they will be satisfied with the money they will be making and no chance for MLS. The stadium that's proposed for MAPS is nowhere near the stadium that would be required for MLS. I get the feeling that getting an MLS team was nothing more than a pipe dream,like a carrot on the stick. It will take someone with deep pockets and 100% committed to MLS soccer to get on the serious players list. I haven't seen that,not even close.

[OKC2017]

If they get their stadium now for the minor league team I would bet they will be satisfied with the money they will be making and no chance for MLS. The stadium that's proposed for MAPS is nowhere near the stadium that would be required for MLS. I get the feeling that getting an MLS team was nothing more than a pipe dream,like a carrot on the stick. It will take someone with deep pockets and 100% committed to MLS soccer to get on the serious players list. I haven't seen that,not even close.

exactly!!! it takes about half a billion dollars to launch a major league soccer team, granted the league awards you the right to join them. the sacramento stadium, for example, as well as the st. louis and austin stadiums currently in design phase will cost north of 250 million, so this maps stadium proposal valued at 30 some million is definitely not worth the bother. the expansion fee is also about 200 million and the youth/player development academy, training facility, coaches, staff and team executives add up another 50 million to round up the half a billion dollar price tag. so as you mention, it takes multiple business partners committed to the league, to the team, to the sport, to the city and to their capital investment in the long term to hop on board the MLS expansion craze. if you read the sports illustrated article i shared it mentions how the sacramento bid was going nowhere until a couple of multi millionaires and one billionaire joined the ownership group as lead investors and that's when it really got serious contention momentum going. we don't have any of that in okc and therefore this stadium proposal is poised to be one of the biggest mistakes in maps history. make the funks pay for their cute little minor league stadium if they really want it that bad. they got enough assets to secure generous terms from local banks. make them really earn their money and name in the sport.

[chuck5815]

exactly!!! it takes about half a billion dollars to launch a major league soccer team, granted the league awards you the right to join them. the sacramento stadium, for example, as well as the st. louis and austin stadiums currently in design phase will cost north of 250 million, so this maps stadium proposal valued at 30 some million is definitely not worth the bother. the expansion fee is also about 200 million and the youth/player development academy, training facility, coaches, staff and team executives add up another 50 million to round up the half a billion dollar price tag. so as you mention, it takes multiple business partners committed to the league, to the team, to the sport, to the city and to their capital investment in the long term to hop on board the MLS expansion craze. if you read the sports illustrated article i shared it mentions how the sacramento bid was going nowhere until a couple of multi millionaires and one billionaire joined the ownership group as lead investors and that's when it really got serious contention momentum going. we don't have any of that in okc and therefore this stadium proposal is poised to be one of the biggest mistakes in maps history. make the funks pay for their cute little minor league stadium if they really want it that bad. they got enough assets to secure generous terms from local banks. make them really earn their money and name in the sport.

yea, Funks would need to bring in someone with Real Money, like Uncle Harold or Paycom Chad.

problem is, i’d imagine that both of those dudes Hate soccer, and particularly Harold. I can only imagine how that pitch would go.

if we’re going to do this MAPS right, there needs to be at least two projects that receive $200MM+. Sprinkling some cash here and some over there works during an Easter Egg Hunt, but not for a BLC public works programmé.

[Dob Hooligan]

I'm in favor of the stadium and think it will be a good long term investment for Oklahoma City. With zero snark, I will mention a couple reasons why I support it:

1. I recall reading that OKC is around number 35 on a realistic list of MLS cities, and the league is going to cap out at 30. That suggests to me that MLS ain't coming here anytime soon.

2. The stadium will provide multiple use opportunities and be an attractive item in the central city area.

3. I am old enough that I can say I have never heard of any OKC arena or stadium tied to specific teams or owners paying for it. The Bricktown baseball stadium 25 years ago would be the closest, but I think the only constant about that would be the Triple A affiliation. I think the team has had something like 4-5 owners since the team left All Sports Stadium, 2 leagues it played in and 3 Major League affiliations.
I don't understand why the Funk family is being singled out to pay for their facility. I don't recall it happening for Chip Land (and successors) with the OKC Cavalry CBA basketball team; Horn Chen with the Blazers hockey team; the Gaylord family, the Mathis brothers, the Funk family, and (Golden State Warriors owner) Peter Guber & partners with the OKC Dodgers. So, why the hate for a local owner trying to plant the (highest and best) minor league soccer flag in OKC?

4. I think we should be thankful that we are not Arlington Texas. As they are paying for the AT&T Dallas Cowboys Stadium, new Texas Rangers enclosed baseball stadium, and Globe Life Park (former home of the Texas Rangers, since around 1994-same age as Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark).

[SEMIweather]

No idea whether or not OKC will ever get an MLS team, but just want to go on the record and say that I don't think there's any way MLS is stopping at 30 teams. Getting to 40 teams and doing a two-tiered promotion/relegation system seems like their end goal to me at this point.

[mattyiceokc]

No idea whether or not OKC will ever get an MLS team, but just want to go on the record and say that I don't think there's any way MLS is stopping at 30 teams. Getting to 40 teams and doing a two-tiered promotion/relegation system seems like their end goal to me at this point.

I'm sure that two-tiered promotion/relegation statement will go over the heads of all the anti soccer folk here. Besides, that second tier wouldn't be good enough for most of the people in this thread. They'd still call it "minor league"

[OKC2017]

No idea whether or not OKC will ever get an MLS team, but just want to go on the record and say that I don't think there's any way MLS is stopping at 30 teams. Getting to 40 teams and doing a two-tiered promotion/relegation system seems like their end goal to me at this point.

that's a good point. there really is potential to expand the league to 40 or more teams because the sport is on the rise and when you realize there are more than 10 cities that support professional teams in other sport leagues left out of MLS you think the potential is there for further expansion. but even then okc would not be in contention when you have cities like phoenix, baltimore, cleveland, milwaukee, pittsburgh, memphis, tampa bay, new orleans, san antonio, san francisco, las vegas, charlotte, detroit, and even quebec. however, 40 teams would really be stretching it; it could and should take them another couple decades and the USMNT winning a world cup to get there.

[Richard at Remax]

Of course the MLS will keep expanding. That's the only way they are making money with expansion/franchise fees in the $200 million range.

[Jersey Boss]

Of course the MLS will keep expanding. That's the only way they are making money with expansion/franchise fees in the $200 million range.

Bubbles have a tendency to burst at a certain point. There is good reason the NHL, NFL, and NBA don't have 40 franchises.

[Rover]

Bubbles have a tendency to burst at a certain point. There is good reason the NHL, NFL, and NBA don't have 40 franchises.

It's about having enough players to make competitive rosters and people who want to watch. Seems like there are lots of foreign players that could foreseeable fill out at least 40 competitive franchises. I think there would be B level and relegation though. As for number of people, OKC metro is 41st most populated.

[amocore]

I'm in favor of the stadium and think it will be a good long term investment for Oklahoma City. With zero snark, I will mention a couple reasons why I support it:

1. I recall reading that OKC is around number 35 on a realistic list of MLS cities, and the league is going to cap out at 30. That suggests to me that MLS ain't coming here anytime soon.

2. The stadium will provide multiple use opportunities and be an attractive item in the central city area.

3. I am old enough that I can say I have never heard of any OKC arena or stadium tied to specific teams or owners paying for it. The Bricktown baseball stadium 25 years ago would be the closest, but I think the only constant about that would be the Triple A affiliation. I think the team has had something like 4-5 owners since the team left All Sports Stadium, 2 leagues it played in and 3 Major League affiliations.
I don't understand why the Funk family is being singled out to pay for their facility. I don't recall it happening for Chip Land (and successors) with the OKC Cavalry CBA basketball team; Horn Chen with the Blazers hockey team; the Gaylord family, the Mathis brothers, the Funk family, and (Golden State Warriors owner) Peter Guber & partners with the OKC Dodgers. So, why the hate for a local owner trying to plant the (highest and best) minor league soccer flag in OKC?

4. I think we should be thankful that we are not Arlington Texas. As they are paying for the AT&T Dallas Cowboys Stadium, new Texas Rangers enclosed baseball stadium, and Globe Life Park (former home of the Texas Rangers, since around 1994-same age as Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark).

Very good points and I have to agree with those. I am all for a soccer stadium. Not an MLS size one but we really need a stadium with a correct size field. The 30 miliion one for only 4 % of MAPS 4 is a good start.

Talking about MLS. No owner will pay 200 millions to get relegated. 30 Teams is already too much for a second zone league like the MLS but, as previsously pointed, the entry fees is the only way the league makes money.

[Jersey Boss]

It's about having enough players to make competitive rosters and people who want to watch. Seems like there are lots of foreign players that could foreseeable fill out at least 40 competitive franchises. I think there would be B level and relegation though. As for number of people, OKC metro is 41st most populated.

Thanks. However having enough players was not a factor in my comment. There are enough basketball players and football players in this country that is not a factor in further expansion. Enough hockey players in the North America and Europe that is not hindering expansion. This article from 2017 where 4B was turned down to go to a relegation scheme holds no interest in the MLS.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/major-league-soccer/story/3164144/mls-rejected-$4-billion-media-rights-deal-that-hinged-on-promotion-and-relegation

The link needs to be copied and pasted in your browser.

[Rover]

Thanks. However having enough players was not a factor in my comment. There are enough basketball players and football players in this country that is not a factor in further expansion. Enough hockey players in the North America and Europe that is not hindering expansion. This article from 2017 where 4B was turned down to go to a relegation scheme holds no interest in the MLS.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/major-league-soccer/story/3164144/mls-rejected-$4-billion-media-rights-deal-that-hinged-on-promotion-and-relegation

The link needs to be copied and pasted in your browser.

No, there really aren't enough good basketball players to field 40 competitive teams...there is barely enough for the NBA now, and that's with a huge influx of foreign players. Football doesn't have enough good ones now, particularly at QB and defensive linemen.

[OKCRT]

No, there really aren't enough good basketball players to field 40 competitive teams...there is barely enough for the NBA now, and that's with a huge influx of foreign players. Football doesn't have enough good ones now, particularly at QB and defensive linemen.

The NFL could easily expand and fill out rosters with good players. That is not the issue. The NFL owners are very greedy and they don't want to split the huge TV revenue they are splitting. Other words , the don't want any more mouths to feed. There are players on every teams practice squad right now that could be playing on Sundays.

MLS on the other hand has so many players from the US and World wide that they could easily expand to 40 teams. BUT-It will approach the same thinking as NFL. Their tv contract isn't nearly as much as the NFL but the same situation still applies. The more you add the more you split that revenue.

[jedicurt]

The NFL could easily expand and fill out rosters with good players. That is not the issue. The NFL owners are very greedy and they don't want to split the huge TV revenue they are splitting. Other words , the don't want any more mouths to feed. There are players on every teams practice squad right now that could be playing on Sundays.

MLS on the other hand has so many players from the US and World wide that they could easily expand to 40 teams. BUT-It will approach the same thinking as NFL. Their tv contract isn't nearly as much as the NFL but the same situation still applies. The more you add the more you split that revenue.

don't watch much NFL, do you??? they are having a hard time finding enough QB's and kickers for 32 teams... and it's why the league says they don't want things like the AAF or the XFL, because it takes backup QB's from their available pool...