MAPS 4 Stadium

[OKCRT]

I think MLS should expand to 40 or so teams, then create a two-tier system with promotion/relegation.

I was reading an article a few min. ago on the new STL MLS team. The owners are paying for the stadium and they are not asking for any TIF. The owners will pay all upkeep and maintenance on new 22-25k seat stadium. What a great deal for the city of Stl that local ownership stood up and is footing the bill. Also they are not doing PSLs that have become so popular around the country.

[Laramie]

I was reading an article a few min. ago on the new STL MLS team. The owners are paying for the stadium and they are not asking for any TIF. The owners will pay all upkeep and maintenance on new 22-25k seat stadium. What a great deal for the city of Stl that local ownership stood up and is footing the bill. Also they are not doing PSLs that have become so popular around the country.

You have a link or source, share that article with us.

[OKCRT]

The ownership group is partnered with Julie Snow, co-founder of Snow Kreilich Architects, and architecture firm HOK. The stadium will seat between 22,000 and 25,00 people. MLS currently plays 17 regular-season home games and three exhibition games, not including the postseason. The stadium will also be used for concerts, high school and college tournaments, soccer camps, family shows and e-sports competitions.

The stadium is primarily privately financed. The ownership reiterated that it will not request Tax Increment Financing. The ownership group will pay for stadium maintenance, repair and upkeep.

[OKCRT]

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...5b230569c.html

The ownership group is partnered with Julie Snow, co-founder of Snow Kreilich Architects, and architecture firm HOK. The stadium will seat between 22,000 and 25,00 people. MLS currently plays 17 regular-season home games and three exhibition games, not including the postseason. The stadium will also be used for concerts, high school and college tournaments, soccer camps, family shows and e-sports competitions.

The stadium is primarily privately financed. The ownership reiterated that it will not request Tax Increment Financing. The ownership group will pay for stadium maintenance, repair and upkeep.

[Laramie]

The stadium is primarily privately financed. The ownership reiterated that it will not request Tax Increment Financing. The ownership group will pay for stadium maintenance, repair and upkeep.

Thanks, OKCRT, good read. Wish OKC had the wealth of St. Louis private sector. Private stadium-arena financing in pro sports today is more of an anomaly.

[d-usa]

Under the proposal stadium construction would not require any public funding, but the ownership group would get tax incentives for construction and maintenance.

There would be no sales tax on construction materials, and use of the proposed site- west of Union Station downtown- would be free. There would also be a 50 percent sales tax break on ticket sales, but the addition of a three percent sales tax on goods sold at the stadium.

The City of St. Louis would own the stadium, and the city’s development arm said the stadium deal would provide conservatively $41 million over 30 years. The resolution agreeing to the deal in principal passed in a 26-2 vote.

They are getting tax breaks and help from the city though.

[Jersey Boss]

https://deadspin.com/report-mls-will...let-1837269624
Report: MLS Will Expand To St. Louis, Might Not Completely Fleece The City For A Stadium
https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news...ion-and-rising
Taxpayer tab on FC Cincinnati real estate needs: $213 million

Should the Chamber, errr City Council think a stadium is a good idea they better have safeguards built in for cost over runs as well as being candid on what rent is being charged and guarantees of usage other than a few minor league soccer games.

[OKCRT]

They are getting tax breaks and help from the city though.

Bottom line, It's a great deal for the people and I applaud the owners for stepping up. They will make their money back and then some. It appears that not all of these rich owners are as greedy as most. And from what I understand this is no stripped down stadium as it will be first class all the way. I do think that the city of Stl is providing the land and doing some street/highway work. If OKC could get this type of deal I would be all in on soccer just to support the owners investment.

[stlokc]

I can't say enough complimentary things about the Taylor family. Time and again they have given to civic causes, even completely unglamorous ones. A few years ago the sewers underneath Forest Park, a crown jewel of the city, were rotting away. They were 100 years old. The cost to rebuild them: $40 million. Completely outside the realm of what was doable for the city at the time. The Taylor family literally wrote a check. For sewers. There are a number of such examples.

The thing is: they are selfless, yes, philanthropic, yes, but they are also smart enough to understand, even if they are too polite to say it out loud, that actions like that do come back to the benefit of their company in the long run. There isn't a person in this state that even shops around when renting a car. Enterprise may be the most expensive. Nobody cares. The company has that kind of good will. I do wish OKC had some families like them.

[stlokc]

One other anecdote, I was at a pool party one time a few years ago. A pretty girl my age started talking to me. We had a great conversation, she was as down-to-earth as could be. She casually said her name was Chrissy. Later on one of my friends grabbed me and said "You were having a great conversation with Chrissy Taylor. Look at you!" I wouldn't have even known. She was that unassuming.

OK, we've gotten way off topic

[borchard]

I'm also impressed that the STL owners are paying for their own stadium. I wish the local owners here (whose two families are worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $1B from what I've been told?) would do the same. Instead I feel like they are just trying to get OKC taxpayers to foot the bill in order to prop up their investment. Well, that's my opinion anyway. I really am leaning toward voting No if this is part of MAPS4. And that would be the VERY FIRST time I haven't voted Yes for a MAP project. ANyway, just my opinion.

[Johnb911]

I'm not saying it's a bad thing the STL owners are paying for their own stadium, but that's cause the STL voters overwhelmingly shot down a publicly funded stadium a few years ago for a different ownership group. So...they didn't really have a choice. Let's not act like this group just magically decided to be altruistic here.

[OKCRT]

I'm not saying it's a bad thing the STL owners are paying for their own stadium, but that's cause the STL voters overwhelmingly shot down a publicly funded stadium a few years ago for a different ownership group. So...they didn't really have a choice. Let's not act like this group just magically decided to be altruistic here.

The MLS has tried for over 20 years to get into the Stl market but no mega rich owner would stand up and raise their hand. There was no way the city was going to build a stadium for MLS so it had to be privately funded. The owners will make their money back and then some in the long run and that is the way it should be. Now here in OKC they are asking for the people to build a USL team a stadium. That is kinda hard to swallow esp. after seeing this Stl. deal.

[Laramie]

Is this a fair comparison: St. Louis vs. Oklahoma City...

MSA & TV Households are key factors to determine where a pro sports franchise will locate:

Metropolitan Statistical Area Population

20 St. Louis, MO-IL MSA 2,805,465
41 Oklahoma City, OK MSA 1,396,445
Difference: 1,409,020 more people in St. Louis MSA

Nielsen DMA Rankings – 2017 Television Season

21 St. Louis 1,215,570 1.06
41 Oklahoma City 722,140 0.63
Difference: 493,430 more viewership in St. Louis' TV household

Sources:

MSA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tistical_areas
Nielsen TV: https://www.lyonspr.com/latest-nielsen-dma-rankings/

...Give us a break.

[Plutonic Panda]

St. Louis last time I checked is a shrinking metro and not doing so hot despite some recent impressive developments. OKC is growing likely much faster than STL is. Though I would say STL is a tier above OKC, it is not a huge stretch for comparison depending on the context. OKC could catch up with STL if it boomed like other real boomtowns of which I will argue OKC is NOT.

[stlokc]

This is going to be a "one and done" post because I've started down the rabbit hole of St. Louis vs. OKC before and nobody really cares (nor should they) but I do think I should answer for the context of the discussion.

St. Louis is a stagnant market. The metro area grows at about 2% a decade. The city itself (which is a small fraction of the metro area due to being old and hemmed in by suburbs in the early 1900s) consistently falls in population, traditionally it was due to white flight and now it's primarily gentrification, where, say, a 6-unit apartment building becomes a 3-unit condo bldg. That and old Catholic families that used to have 8 children now have 2 children in this generation.

Anyway, the primary differentiator, beyond size, is strength of the soccer market. In the STL metro area, soccer is a much bigger deal than football for example. Kids grow up playing it, and whereas in OKC they gravitate to football in junior high, in STL the "cool athletic kids" tend to stay in soccer. It's a cultural thing. Not making a value judgement. There are literally more club teams and traveling teams among high schoolers than I can count. Also there is a history of European immigrant enclaves where it's a big deal. Also, St. Louis University has traditionally been a soccer powerhouse. All that to say that STL overshoots for it's size when it comes to soccer. The MLS has always wanted to be here. But the last vote was only within the city proper, as opposed to the whole metro area voting on it. Imagine an OKC that ended at NW 36th street and SW 44th street. It was never going to succeed. Whether it should have succeeded is a matter of opinion. But only about 15% of the metro area had the chance to vote on it.

We could go down the road of OKC "catching" STL someday, or STL "declining" but I don't really think that's what this thread is about.

[OKCRT]

St. Louis last time I checked is a shrinking metro and not doing so hot despite some recent impressive developments. OKC is growing likely much faster than STL is. Though I would say STL is a tier above OKC, it is not a huge stretch for comparison depending on the context. OKC could catch up with STL if it boomed like other real boomtowns of which I will argue OKC is NOT.

Don't think Stl metro is shrinking maybe Stl City is. But it appears that they are starting to turn that trend around with all the stuff that is going on there. But if you ever drove through there it is one suburb after another and the city itself is pretty small area. There's a lot of stuff going up in and around Stl and from what I hear. Like a 30 story residential tower in Clayton and some huge Government project in the city. Don't know if OKC will ever catch up but if it does we are talking a couple hundred years most likely.

[Plutonic Panda]

Don't think Stl metro is shrinking maybe Stl City is. But it appears that they are starting to turn that trend around with all the stuff that is going on there. But if you ever drove through there it is one suburb after another and the city itself is pretty small area. There's a lot of stuff going up in and around Stl and from what I hear. Like a 30 story residential tower in Clayton and some huge Government project in the city. Don't know if OKC will ever catch up but if it does we are talking a couple hundred years most likely.

I'm aware of the projects going in STL. Lots of impressive stuff. Now that I remember you are right I had it backwards, the metro is growing. But it is weak growth and at current levels yes it would take OKC awhile to catch up. That is why I said OKC needs an Austin style boom to catch up and it could eclipse STL in a decade or two provided they don't see a boom.

I'm fairly familiar with STL and they places like Chesterfield that blow away anything in OKC. STL doesn't hold a candle to Austin, IMO, but it used to be light-years ahead of them.

[jonny d]

I'm aware of the projects going in STL. Lots of impressive stuff. Now that I remember you are right I had it backwards, the metro is growing. But it is weak growth and at current levels yes it would take OKC awhile to catch up. That is why I said OKC needs an Austin style boom to catch up and it could eclipse STL in a decade or two provided they don't see a boom.

I'm fairly familiar with STL and they places like Chesterfield that blow away anything in OKC. STL doesn't hold a candle to Austin, IMO, but it used to be light-years ahead of them.

I don't know if I want OKC to have that kind of growth. Infrastructure sucks at our current size, let alone the ignorant amounts of growth they have experienced. They have many problems that are hidden by those cool skyscrapers they build.

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't know if I want OKC to have that kind of growth. Infrastructure sucks at our current size, let alone the ignorant amounts of growth they have experienced. They have many problems that are hidden by those cool skyscrapers they build.

If you know my posting history you would know I love big freeways and skyscrapers so I would love OKC to turn into a massive metropolis. lol... I get the lack of appeal though. :P

[jonny d]

If you know my posting history you would know I love big freeways and skyscrapers so I would love OKC to turn into a massive metropolis. lol... I get the lack of appeal though. :P

Oh, I am all for growth. I just think OKC can grow slower, yet still be successful.

And yes, we all know your love for tall buildings. Lol

[Plutonic Panda]

I certainly see the negatives of fast growth. SLC seems to be handling it well but then again they have more money flowing through there.

[OKCRT]

If you know my posting history you would know I love big freeways and skyscrapers so I would love OKC to turn into a massive metropolis. lol... I get the lack of appeal though. :P

Yes more Skyscrapers please. I would like to order several asap. If OKC could just fix the bottlenecks on the interstates I would be happy.

[jerrywall]

If OKC could just fix the bottlenecks on the interstates I would be happy.

Nothing that a generous usage of spike strips couldn't solve....

[Laramie]

Last stadium renderings shows the canapes ($750,000) , we have a $37 million budget Option 1 to work with--pending passage of MAPS 4:

Seating capacity, 10,000 seats.
Total project costs: $39,939,368

MULTIPURPOSE STADIUM $37M
For the purpose of pursuing the transformational power demonstrated by previous MAPS projects like the ballpark and the arena, it is the intent of the Council to allocate $37 million to a multipurpose stadium suitable for professional and college soccer, high school football and soccer, concerts and other events, similar in concept to multipurpose stadium venues found in every other large American city. Commencement of construction will be conditional on the approval of operating agreements with an established professional soccer operator / lessee before December 31, 2026 who can offer a self-sustaining operational model similar to the ballpark.

There are many factors that will determine what goes into construction of this facility:

Land acquisition, location, parking & a low bid (under budget)... The stadium will have to be built near existing parking, on city owned land for this stadium to be doable.