MAPS 4 Stadium

[bombermwc]

If you built a stadium and made it mixed use in design I bet periphery things would start to happen. The cool thing about crossroads in this scenario is that the old mall is ringed by those other business spaces that could quickly get filled up with restaurants and such...

I'm not so convinced about that. Those businesses can't survive on the hand full of days in the year that there's activity there (speaking of Crossroads). Dont get me wrong, there are a lot of land benefits to being there. Parking, growth room, nearby rail lines, 2 interstates. BUUUUUT, there's a reason why those businesses and the mall failed. It's not the hub it once was. And i just dont see anything surviving there on only event traffic. And there's really no incentive to build there given 240 West and Moore are so close.

[OKC Guy]

There is no reason our hotel tax shouldn't be higher. Look at your hotel bills when you are in other cities next time. We refuse to put some tax on the hotels because the higher ups in the city are scared it would hurt tourism. FALSE.

Especially with the convention coming soon a lot of hotel costs are covered by businesses having conventions

[Richard at Remax]

Exactly. I think the proposal was adding $5 to each bill, or something like that. Which they claimed we would have some the highest taxed rates in the country. However, I would argue that the actual hotel rates are some of the lowest in the country too. So if you are thinking about coming here and you are hung up on that extra $5 you might have to spend over the entirety of your stay, then you have bigger problems to deal with.

[jedicurt]

Exactly. I think the proposal was adding $5 to each bill, or something like that. Which they claimed we would have some the highest taxed rates in the country. However, I would argue that the actual hotel rates are some of the lowest in the country too. So if you are thinking about coming here and you are hung up on that extra $5 you might have to spend over the entirety of your stay, then you have bigger problems to deal with.

exactly, i mean Las Vegas is paying for the Raiders new stadium solely through a hotel tax

[Plutonic Panda]

We argue aboutt $50 million in city investment. Meanwhile Austin is expanding its public facilities by billions. We are left to wonder why Austin has moved so far ahead of us. Lol. https://austin.curbed.com/2019/8/12/...-rate-increase

Right .... let’s aim low and maybe we can hit it. We talk big league and act small town Oklahoma.

+1000

[Pete]

Reminder that OKC is spending half a billion on its new convention center plus hundreds of millions more on the adjacent park. And there is plenty of land to the south to expand in the future.

And of course we have already sunk billions of public money in the immediate area in the last 15 years or so.


We've spent plenty but that doesn't mean every idea is a great idea or that it should be funded through sales tax.

[Plutonic Panda]

We argue aboutt $50 million in city investment. Meanwhile Austin is expanding its public facilities by billions. We are left to wonder why Austin has moved so far ahead of us. Lol. https://austin.curbed.com/2019/8/12/...-rate-increase

I'm not so convinced about that. Those businesses can't survive on the hand full of days in the year that there's activity there (speaking of Crossroads). Dont get me wrong, there are a lot of land benefits to being there. Parking, growth room, nearby rail lines, 2 interstates. BUUUUUT, there's a reason why those businesses and the mall failed. It's not the hub it once was. And i just dont see anything surviving there on only event traffic. And there's really no incentive to build there given 240 West and Moore are so close.

Arguably that happened because of a lack of investment in the area. I am in this area often and it is horrible. Ugly, no character, no design elements, many businesses do the bare minimum, the infrastructure sucks, etc. It is not hard to see why this area isn't that desirable especially when standards in other parts of the city are skyrocketing.

OkDOT's final design of the future interchange will leave us with a subpar interchange by the time it opens. Still have cloverleafs, service roads don't go through the interchange, limited access, etc. Shields could easily maintain access and open ramps but it would require more money. Many many cities do this yet OKC, yet again, gets a halfassed interchange.

It can be modified and the train tracks though they exists aren't utilized like they could be. With the right investment this area could easily become a hub again. The traffic is already there.

[BDP]

exactly, i mean Las Vegas is paying for the Raiders new stadium solely through a hotel tax

Vegas could probably pay down the national debt with their hotel taxes (excuse me... resort fees).

[OKCRT]

Vegas could probably pay down the national debt with their hotel taxes (excuse me... resort fees).

The sheep are paying to help build Vegas up. It's like a big flock of sheep streaming into Vegas to give their money away on one thing or the other. OKC needs a good legal scam like that.


BTW,If Funk doesn't get his stadium for the Energy and moves his team maybe someone can buy the Stl USL team and move them here. I assume they prob. won't be keeping that team now since they are getting a major league soccer team.

[d-usa]

The USL wouldn’t approve the movie because, as has been mentioned a few times, Oklahoma City doesn’t have a stadium with a regulation size field.

[OKCRT]

The USL wouldn’t approve the movie because, as has been mentioned a few times, Oklahoma City doesn’t have a stadium with a regulation size field.

They could build a regulation size field for a few thousand dollars. Might not be fancy but we could get them a regulation size. I was looking around and most of the USL teams don't draw many fans.

[baralheia]

There are tons of possible sites on the southside but Funk obviously has his mind set and for some reason the big projects just have to be downtown.







Site #1: In the Wheeler District area. Wheeler is focused on the first phase without any real plans for the second phase east of Western and a new plan around a soccer stadium could be had. This is my least favorite option but it is there.

Site #2: Closest to Capitol Hill with the most influence(due to proximity). Requires buying a few properties and demoing none of which are historically significant or architectural interesting and they are arguably blighted. This is probably my favorite spot. It would require the densest and most compact stadium(footprint) but seems like a MLS level stadium could exist. The blighted 25th St. serves as an industrial area and arguably the city should have more compacted industrial parks. It could stand to loose a few and the businesses relocate to existing ones.

Site #3: A chance to turn an industrial street into a mixed-use with several great buildings that could be restored. The remaining metal buildings are cheap and easy demo with land costs likely not too high. Great catalysts for a new urban area outside of downtown and giving life into a stagnant part of town.

Site #4: Former Crossroads Mall. Complete tear down of the buildings in the area and a huge potential for a new urban district with a possible commuter rail stop and working with OkDOT for better access under the adjacent interstate to interstate interchange rebuild gives a great location. Has the means to be a huge boost and great infill not contributing to urban sprawl. Other deals could be worked to develop millions of SF of retail(a bigger Oak), another regional draw(Medieval Times/world class aquarium, etc.), thousands of new residential units, etc.

Downtown already has momentum and this stadium could also be a great real estate tool in addition to bringing soccer for the fans. It gives something an undeserved part of the city can truly be proud of and brings more money to it. The Strawberry Fields and Lumberyard site will develop just fine without this stadium, albeit likely taking longer but not nearly as long as it will for these sites.

Site #1 is the eastern half of the Wheeler District master plan. Site #3 is where Pull-A-Part is moving to. So both of those are out.

Site #2 is currently owned by the City of OKC and is currently home to several soccer fields. The fields appear to be operated by the Latin and American Soccer League of Oklahoma Inc; based on their website, it appears they host many youth and junior league matches here. The parcel you pointed out does extend all the way from Walker to Western, so there would be room for a parking lot or structure of some variety, but there is an oil well right in the middle of the property dividing the halves.

Site #4 would be great; there are existing hotels and restaurants on pad sites nearby. As you note, this area has long been proposed for a stop on the commuter rail network, so a soccer stadium here would be a fantastic anchor for a new mixed-use district, incorporating new development with the existing businesses. My hope would be for a developer or a group to come up with a master plan for the area that would increase density and exclude seas of parking. I think the biggest challenge here is that the mall property now has split ownership and buying the owners out could be an uphill battle.

[jedicurt]

The sheep are paying to help build Vegas up. It's like a big flock of sheep streaming into Vegas to give their money away on one thing or the other. OKC needs a good legal scam like that.


BTW,If Funk doesn't get his stadium for the Energy and moves his team maybe someone can buy the Stl USL team and move them here. I assume they prob. won't be keeping that team now since they are getting a major league soccer team.

you do know there is more to do in Vegas than gamble right??? i have been to Vegas 10-12 times in the past 5 years, and have not gambled once...

[baralheia]

Problem with Crossroads is that there's nothing else around it. There are only minimal hotels on 240 and you really have to go to Moore to "do" anything else. So the city loses out on people eating nearby and maybe a trolly between parking/eating/soccer (and back)/etc. Lot's of intangibles that are indirectly tied to it being on the NORTH side of the river.

There are three hotels on this property already, along with a movie theater and two restaurants (one steakhouse, one fast food). The bones are there with plenty of room to draw more investment.

[OKC2017]

let bob funk pay for his stadium if he really wants it.
tomorrow saint louis will announced as the 28th major league soccer team; sacramento will be named
sometime before the end of the playoffs and the last spot will be contested between las vegas, phoenix, charlotte and san antonio. that being said, it is very difficult okc gets a first division club unless MLS expands beyond 30 teams to something like 40 or 42 because cities like milwaukee, new orleans, memphis, cleveland, san diego, detroit, pittsburgh and baltimore would be positioned ahead of it as well. so no point the city financing the construction of a brand new stadium with public money. i think, if i were bob funk, that i'd move the team to capitol hill's high school stadium first and then perhaps purchase the land north of the river along sw 15th between walker and harvey and look for big time investors as partners to help him build his stadium, even the thunder can be an investor in soccer i think.

[ShadowStrings]

I think MLS should expand to 40 or so teams, then create a two-tier system with promotion/relegation.

[SagerMichael]

Farmers Market is the best place for the stadium no question

[OKC Guy]

I think MLS should expand to 40 or so teams, then create a two-tier system with promotion/relegation.

I agree as a fan but owners would never go for this due to some major outlays in their clubs. It works in England and other countries because they started this way so long ago and before money was so big. But here you have to have money first before club and all that public money too. Its not just owners who would fight it so would cities who chipped in major dollars so they could have top billing.

But it is a great system and helps when teams stop spending money and get bad they are relegated and the lower tier teams who spend money get promoted. It keeps the Detroit Lions of the world from always being bad and if they are bad down they go. But since so many stadiums here have public money they will never change. Too bad too.

[gopokes88]

Not too mention tv networks who would be pretty upset if the NY and LA teams were all relegated at the same time

[mattyiceokc]

i think, if i were bob funk, that i'd move the team to capitol hill's high school stadium first.

You mean the one with the same track around it as Taft? That's a brilliant idea. Lets move the team from one field that doesn't meet league standards to another stadium with the exact same issue!

[Laramie]

Louisville City FC: https://www.bizjournals.com/louisvil...kes-shape.html

Louisville Stadium Project Acquires $21.7 Million TIF Funding: https://www.uslchampionship.com/news...le/show/922909

The stadium has a $70 million price tag. In December, the club finalized $50 million in financing syndicated by Fifth Third Bank for the new stadium. Other banks in the deal are First Financial Bank, Regions Bank, Paducah Bank, WesBanco Bank Inc., Stock Yards Bank & Trust Co. and Commonwealth Bank and Trust.

Current stadium: Louisville Slugger Field - AAA IL Louisville Bats

New Mexico United (Albuquerque): https://www.koat.com/article/new-mex...adium/28227093

Current stadium: Isotopes Park - AAA PCL Albuquerque Isotopes

Oklahoma City Energy FC: https://www.soctakes.com/2019/08/08/...adium-options/

The two stadium options presented were valued significantly less than the initial $97 million proposal the club revealed in February. Holt opened Tuesday’s presentation saying he asked the ownership group to present a revised rendering of stadiums focused on reducing the budget.

The first option, with a projected cost between $37 million and $42 million, would seat 8,000 and is estimated to host 66 events per year, according to the Energy.

The second option, which would include a canopy and more fan-oriented amenities, is projected to cost between $67 million and $72 million and would seat 10,000. The club estimates 81 events hosted annually with the second stadium option.

Current stadium: Taft Stadium - High school football stadium - OKCPS

Tulsa Roughnecks FC: https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2018...to-be-studied/

Current stadium: ONEOK Field - AA Texas League - Tulsa Drillers

Several other USL franchises will need to immediately plan for new soccer specific stadiums:

El Paso Locomotives FC
Omaha (2020)

[bombermwc]

There are three hotels on this property already, along with a movie theater and two restaurants (one steakhouse, one fast food). The bones are there with plenty of room to draw more investment.

Have you been by there recently? The movie theater is BARELY making it since Warren opened. The inside keeps getting more worn and dirtier. The dollar theater next door did finally close 2 years ago. The hotel parking lots are 90% empty.

The steakhouse works because its the only one of that brand for 15 miles so it is a destination in itself. If it were say a Logan's, I don't think it would make it.

The remaining businesses on all sides have closed up shop. That entire shopping center on the west side is a shell of what it was. The old OKC Sports/Best Buy seems to change hands about every 5 years. Toys R Us is gone. The north side semi-survived because it turned in to OK State DHS offices.

I wouldn't call that a stellar set of bones to work with. Potential...yeah I guess, but Crossroads had potential for Plaza Mayor. Granted it was doomed from the start with how the ownership was organized, but its still closed. And if the school is gonna stay, it really messes with the site plan having a permanent structure right smack in the middle of the grounds.

[baralheia]

Have you been by there recently? The movie theater is BARELY making it since Warren opened. The inside keeps getting more worn and dirtier. The dollar theater next door did finally close 2 years ago. The hotel parking lots are 90% empty.

The steakhouse works because its the only one of that brand for 15 miles so it is a destination in itself. If it were say a Logan's, I don't think it would make it.

The remaining businesses on all sides have closed up shop. That entire shopping center on the west side is a shell of what it was. The old OKC Sports/Best Buy seems to change hands about every 5 years. Toys R Us is gone. The north side semi-survived because it turned in to OK State DHS offices.

I wouldn't call that a stellar set of bones to work with. Potential...yeah I guess, but Crossroads had potential for Plaza Mayor. Granted it was doomed from the start with how the ownership was organized, but its still closed. And if the school is gonna stay, it really messes with the site plan having a permanent structure right smack in the middle of the grounds.

Yes, as I live about a mile away, I've been over to this area multiple times. You're absolutely correct that what exists there now is not stellar, but it's better than nothing. The bones do exist to make revitalization a *little* less daunting of a task - both in existing building stock and raw land for new buildings. The hotels might have light occupancy right now, but they are still there and still open to serve guests; they are positioned well for when revitalization finally does occur. Having Texas Roadhouse and Burger King there is a start, too. The split ownership is going to be the biggest stumbling block. Hudiburg Auto Group owns the former Macy's, and Santa Fe South High School owns the former Montgomery Ward's - and this also includes ownership of the nearby parking lots out to the ring road. Together these two parcels in the NE corner of the property represent almost a quarter of the land there. The rest of the mall and parking lot is under common ownership, though, which could allow a stadium to be built closer toward the hotels and ring road. There is a lot of vacancy in the retail strip centers, too, but a few signs of life remain here and there; Dove Science Academy owns the old Heritage College / New Best Buy building, and OCCC operates their Prefessional Development Center out of the Old Best Buy building. The Crossroads Islamic Center of Oklahoma owns and operates out of the old Luby's, J.A. King (a precision instrument calibration company) operates out of the former Sears Auto Center, and Accurate Safety Compliance (OSHA compliance consultants) owns and operates out of the old Jackie Cooper Electronics building. While this isn't great for now, the level of vacancy means if the area were to be revitalized, retail and other shopping could quickly get going here again.

[mattyiceokc]

Yes, as I live about a mile away, I've been over to this area multiple times. You're absolutely correct that what exists there now is not stellar, but it's better than nothing. The bones do exist to make revitalization a *little* less daunting of a task - both in existing building stock and raw land for new buildings. The hotels might have light occupancy right now, but they are still there and still open to serve guests; they are positioned well for when revitalization finally does occur. Having Texas Roadhouse and Burger King there is a start, too. The split ownership is going to be the biggest stumbling block. Hudiburg Auto Group owns the former Macy's, and Santa Fe South High School owns the former Montgomery Ward's - and this also includes ownership of the nearby parking lots out to the ring road. Together these two parcels in the NE corner of the property represent almost a quarter of the land there. The rest of the mall and parking lot is under common ownership, though, which could allow a stadium to be built closer toward the hotels and ring road. There is a lot of vacancy in the retail strip centers, too, but a few signs of life remain here and there; Dove Science Academy owns the old Heritage College / New Best Buy building, and OCCC operates their Prefessional Development Center out of the Old Best Buy building. The Crossroads Islamic Center of Oklahoma owns and operates out of the old Luby's, J.A. King (a precision instrument calibration company) operates out of the former Sears Auto Center, and Accurate Safety Compliance (OSHA compliance consultants) owns and operates out of the old Jackie Cooper Electronics building. While this isn't great for now, the level of vacancy means if the area were to be revitalized, retail and other shopping could quickly get going here again.

Just an FYI, OCCC no longer operates the Professional Development Institute. The programs that were offered there have moved to other OCCC locations. I've been told that Dove Science Academy is now using the space vacated by OCCC.

[Laramie]

More land options to build a multipurpose venue, see it as a good omen--be it in the core or south of the river. One thing is for sure, the USL has alerted (see post #371) USL franchises to have a development plan for a soccer specific/mp stadium come 2020.

NASL Rochester in the late 80s had great crowd interest; vibrant headquarters of Xerox and Eastman Kodak, a corporation in quicksand since its 2013 bankruptcy. The Rochester Rhinos MLS aspiration has diminished in recent years.

MAPS 4 will have a variety of projects in the $925 million range that will chart the future course for our city. Many of the programs & projects may be of interests to you; especially as they address the future needs of our city.