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Thread: MAPS 4 Stadium

  1. #301

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    I think I actually voted against the first MAPS. I know I thought it was dumb, especially that canal thing. And taking the baseball stadium away from the Fairgrounds was even worse.

    I was wrong.

    Then I began to think maybe I just didn't have "the vision" that our civic leaders had. I have come around to where I have decided to trust the process and support each MAPS. I support the stadium proposal.

    And if the argument on the First Christian Church thread is that some civic expenditures don't make financial sense when using "the spreadsheet", but enhance our quality of life and image; then I suggest this stadium fits in that same category.

  2. #302

    MAPS3 Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    If you're looking for instant gratification on a stadium, you're not going to get it. There are not a whole lot of activities that will rush into the stadium once its constructed--it's all based on future forecast.

    Look at it from a long-term investment strategy; you'll have a stadium for future events.

    My observation of our state & sometimes our city is this; we don't look at the long-term strategy, more involved with do we need it today. Example: Same was said about the Chesapeake Arena when we couldn't fill the 13,500 seat Myriad. Truth be known, the Myriad couldn't lure the type of events capable of attracting the big event ticket; by this account, it would have been too small--attributed to the loss of the NFR to Las Vegas (Ouch!).

    Also, when given the opportunity to support the NBA, calculations & predictions were underestimated. NBA predicted our market would be good for 12,250 average on the high side, Hornets drew 17,833 in 2006 & 18,168* in their final year (2007) in OKC, now listed as the *Pelicans highest attendance--you bet George Shinn didn't want to leave OKC.

    Oklahoma City drew an all time NBA 2008-09 inaugural season high for our city of 18,693 average attendance in the first season here in the 19,130 seat Ford Center--prior to renovation and seat reduction to the present 18,203. Let's not underestimate our city's potential.

    I'll post the NBA attendance link; there's confusion with the change of the Hornets to Pelicans and the Sonics to Thunder: http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance/_/year/2009 Keep track of the year OKC hosted NBA basketball and the team nickname.

  3. #303

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCRT View Post
    If Funk would seriously pursue an MLS franchise I think a first class 20-25k seat stadium downtown would pass with OKC putting up 50-70% financing and Funk (or whoever the owner would be)putting in the balance. The USL is what it is and most folks look at that as minor league and will be turned off. They should get serious about MLS if they are touting expanding to 40 teams then OKC should have a legit shot.
    Also +1

    Wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the threat to sell the Energy FC; USL has gone on record about all USL teams occupying USSF regulation stadiums by 2020 or in some transition stage; our sister city (Tulsa) is in the same boat. USL will not approve a baseball park (ONEOK) as a legitimate soccer stadium. USL does have potential expansion markets: https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/20...hip-league-one

  4. #304

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    With the OKC Metro having 1.4 million people and a significant Hispanic population, I have to believe someone else will give pro soccer a shot here if Funk folds or moves the Energy. The Energy got 7,500+ people to a playoff game at Taft in their second year of existence and have proceeded to squander literally all of that momentum since then, but the potential is there.

  5. #305

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    This stadium will be for the Energy and any future incarnations.

    Let them pay for it and stop trying to tell people itís needed for these other uses, because we already have plenty of under-utilized facilities for those things.

    i agree with you. i am in favor of okc having a major league soccer club that competes against the big city teams at the highest level as well as international tournaments but the owners and private investors for the team should build their own stadium with their own money and their own land. the city and state should facilitate for the team ownership group to have success but not by handing them free money, land or infrastructure. perhaps access roads, freeway exit ramps, bridges, sidewalks, street lighting, or some other type of public works infrastructure but not the stadium. think that soccer as a sport is on the rise and the tremendous business potential it generates is enough for people with money to gamble on it or not because if it is a big success, like it probably would be, the team's ownership group should rightly reap the benefits and profits of their investment by capturing and harnessing all the revenue streams from their own private property, in this case the stadium that they built with their own money. soccer is on the rise and now is the time to get on board if you're a big time investors. if you keep track of who's investing what and where in MLS right now you will see that it is people with deep pockets who are not relying on public money to push their projects forward. the sacramento republic ownership group that is about to be granted a major league soccer franchise will be spending half a billion dollars in it all. the expansion fee is about 200 million, the stadium is also about 200-250 million and the rest is hiring staff, players, operations, etc.

  6. #306

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    All previous MAPS initiatives have benefited pubic & private endeavors in many ways:

    Chesapeake Energy Arena, Civic Center Music Hall, Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark & State Fair Arena to name several... ...yet we don't have a regulation soccer-American football stadium

    If you want to make a case of wealthy ownership; then our Thunder ownership consists of one billionaire & six multimillionaires, much greater funding source than the ownership group of the Energy FC. Oklahoma City is fortune to be the home to one of 30 NBA franchises.

    In all fairness, are Thunder ownership being asked to pay one penny toward the improvements to our city-owned arena?

  7. #307

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by Laramie View Post
    All previous MAPS initiatives have benefited pubic & private endeavors in many ways:

    Chesapeake Energy Arena, Civic Center Music Hall, Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark & State Fair Arena to name several... ...yet we don't have a regulation soccer-American football stadium

    If you want to make a case of wealthy ownership; then our Thunder ownership consists of one billionaire & six multimillionaires, much greater funding source than the ownership group of the Energy FC. Oklahoma City is fortune to be the home to one of 30 NBA franchises.

    In all fairness, are Thunder ownership being asked to pay one penny toward the improvements to our city-owned arena?
    i appreciate your passion for this Laramie but comparing this to the Thunder is ridiculous and you know it. As one of the smallest market teams, theyíve gone heavy in to the repeater tax for the last several years and carried one of the highest payrolls in the NBA to compete at the highest level...We have the second highest winning percentage in the NBA over the last decade... Our investment as a city and their excellent lease terms go a long way in making that possible. Itís been an excellent investment for the city and the Energy donít belong in the same discussion.

    After doing a little research, itís obvious that very few soccer stadiums are being built now without a very heavy investment from the team. What is Funk willing to contribute?

    I would hope that we would have learned from our experience with the convention center that the Coop site should be completely out of the discussion without knowing exactly what the land will cost and how much will need to be spent on cleaning up the soil contamination...

  8. #308

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    I have no problem with my portion of $70 million going towards an outdoor stadium. It would be a major leap for OKC and it isn’t costing half a billion like a lot of other sporting venues are. Stadiums always get a bad rap when using public funds. For perspective, the streetcar cost $136 million for 13 people to ride it every other day.

  9. #309

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by SagerMichael View Post
    I have no problem with my portion of $70 million going towards an outdoor stadium. It would be a major leap for OKC and it isn’t costing half a billion like a lot of other sporting venues are. Stadiums always get a bad rap when using public funds. For perspective, the streetcar cost $136 million for 13 people to ride it every other day.
    Study after study has shown that stadiums don’t spur surrounding economic development especially when wrapped In parking like the 2700 spaces being proposed. Can you give me an example in the state where it has? I think your numbers on the streetcar might be a little off and we’ll see what they look like once the new convention center is up and running...

  10. #310

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    This is the deal that Louisville is working with and it’s in a very depressed area In a fairly close proximity to downtown.

    ‘’Louisville Metro Government is leveraging a $30 million bond to partially fund the project. The city paid $24.1 million for four pieces of land for the development and will use leftover money for infrastructure improvements. The deal approved by Metro Council says club owners must spend at least $130 million in private capital on the development, including $45 million on the stadium itself’’

    https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...um/1065296001/

  11. #311

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by SagerMichael View Post
    For perspective, the streetcar cost $136 million for 13 people to ride it every other day.
    If your going to criticize the streetcar and compare it to the stadium then use actual facts instead of creating false narratives.

    if your argument is solely based on economic development return, then read this. $1.6 billion isn’t a bad return for $130 million.

    https://www.greateroklahomacity.com/...-impact-study/

  12. #312

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    We all need to take a step back, there are missing pieces to the MAPS 4 stadium proposal (site selection & option 1 or 2) situation much like the convention center before the site was determined.

  13. Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    Im back to saying it could host the 5a and 6a OBA marching contests. 5A is normally hosted by a 6A school (Moore/BA/Mustang/etc) and the 6a rotates between places like UCO/Broken Arrow/Union and this year Owasso. For both, they collect two ticket amounts, prelims and finals. They clear the stadiums between the two halves. Prelims has a trickle in and out all day long but finals fills the places.

    We would need surface parking for this though. That's one big reason why UCO can host it beacuse there's surface lot for trucks/busses/warmup areas/etc. Without that, this will never be an event for this stadium.

    High schools currently get a cut of t;hings when events are hosted. Even if OSSAA takes the tickets, the schools still get concessions. For OBA, it tries to rotate between East/West for each year, but it depends on places being able and willing to host. So if UCO has a game that week, the west is out. It's been 3 years now since the west was able to host 6a OBA because of this. I'd LOVE to see another venue available.

  14. #314

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    When I made the comment about the streetcar it was obviously an exaggeration. Believe it or not I am a streetcar fan. However nothing is in concrete for the stadium yet. Hopefully wherever it goes a wave of development and quality projects can follow.

  15. #315

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by Quicker View Post
    i appreciate your passion for this Laramie but comparing this to the Thunder is ridiculous and you know it. As one of the smallest market teams, they’ve gone heavy in to the repeater tax for the last several years and carried one of the highest payrolls in the NBA to compete at the highest level...We have the second highest winning percentage in the NBA over the last decade... Our investment as a city and their excellent lease terms go a long way in making that possible. It’s been an excellent investment for the city and the Energy don’t belong in the same discussion.

    After doing a little research, it’s obvious that very few soccer stadiums are being built now without a very heavy investment from the team. What is Funk willing to contribute?

    I would hope that we would have learned from our experience with the convention center that the Coop site should be completely out of the discussion without knowing exactly what the land will cost and how much will need to be spent on cleaning up the soil contamination...
    The Thunder wouldn't be here if the arena wasn't a part of MAPS. It was passed with no guarantee of a NBA or NHL team relocating here. The city needed a new arena.

    Now, everyone is against a new stadium because the Energy aren't "major league", or they just don't like soccer. The reality is, OKC is lacking an multipurpose outdoor stadium that every other large city has. The Energy would just happen to be the primary tenants. I swear, everyone here is a bunch of hypocrites. Let's throw money at an arena for basketball/hockey (pre-Thunder), but screw throwing money at a stadium for a soccer team that we already have.

    Franchise fees for the USL have skyrocketed from $250,000 in 2012 to $7 million in 2018. If we lose the Energy, it might be a long time before we get another team. If that's the case, we're going to regret it 20 years from now....

  16. #316

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    I wouldn't say everyone, more like a vocal subset.

  17. #317

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by OKC2017 View Post
    i agree with you. i am in favor of okc having a major league soccer club that competes against the big city teams at the highest level as well as international tournaments but the owners and private investors for the team should build their own stadium with their own money and their own land. the city and state should facilitate for the team ownership group to have success but not by handing them free money, land or infrastructure. perhaps access roads, freeway exit ramps, bridges, sidewalks, street lighting, or some other type of public works infrastructure but not the stadium. think that soccer as a sport is on the rise and the tremendous business potential it generates is enough for people with money to gamble on it or not because if it is a big success, like it probably would be, the team's ownership group should rightly reap the benefits and profits of their investment by capturing and harnessing all the revenue streams from their own private property, in this case the stadium that they built with their own money. soccer is on the rise and now is the time to get on board if you're a big time investors. if you keep track of who's investing what and where in MLS right now you will see that it is people with deep pockets who are not relying on public money to push their projects forward. the sacramento republic ownership group that is about to be granted a major league soccer franchise will be spending half a billion dollars in it all. the expansion fee is about 200 million, the stadium is also about 200-250 million and the rest is hiring staff, players, operations, etc.
    Just one point: The Energy wouldn't be handed this stadium for free. The City would own it, and would charge the Energy for their use of the facility - exactly how the Bricktown Ballpark and the 'Peake operate today.

  18. #318

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    City gets naming right money as well.

  19. #319

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by baralheia View Post
    Just one point: The Energy wouldn't be handed this stadium for free. The City would own it, and would charge the Energy for their use of the facility - exactly how the Bricktown Ballpark and the 'Peake operate today.


    but how much would those payments allocated to the city for renting the space be? i have a feeling it may be a symbolic amount, like say for example, a hundred dollars. different sources point out that major league soccer has been operating with losses every year since its creation 25 years ago. so what kind of payments should the city expect from a team/league that is growing but struggling to make a profit? MLS has made it clear how critical to their business plan is a stadium owned by the team in order to control ALL the revenue streams in an effort to NOT lose money. it appears, to be fair, that just recently some teams in the bigger markets are beginning to see profit after many years operating on red numbers. another point to consider is that MLS is about to cap off expansion once they reach the 30 team limit with cities like phoenix, charlotte, las vegas, detroit and san antonio trying to secure that final slot after sacramento and saint louis become teams number 28 and 29 respectively. to me that means that okc is not even on the radar for MLS because it is considered too small of a market and therefore the chances of producing a successful team that makes money rather than lose it are slim. in other words okc is simply not a priority for MLS. that being said, the city should look carefully at the dynamics of the business model, projections and other hard pressing local priorities like teachers salaries before committing any money to a soccer stadium. i want to have a major league soccer team in the city and i want their stadium to be somewhere between downtown and the river but i also want for bob funk to pile a big group of heavy investors and corporate sponsorships and build his own stadium with his own money and keep all the profits or losses it may generate. i will leave a link below just to cite a reference to the major league soccer operating business model and why logic shows should be an all private endeavor and not a place to allocate public tax payer money with other hard pressing necessities at hand, like the quality of the city's public school system for example.


    https://medium.com/@isaac_krasny/unp...l-827f4b784bcd

  20. #320

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    Out of curiosity, does anyone have numbers on how much rent the city gets from the Thunder for their use of city facilities? I would be pretty shocked if it actually was some symbolic amount.

  21. #321

    MAPS3 Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    The Thunder pay $1,640,000 in annual Arena Rent ($40,000 per game) for forty-one (41) regular season NBA home games.

    (PDF) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...X-G4g5NdNYdbVB

    There are many more perks in that PDF file.

  22. #322

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    These were the locations Bob Funk Jr. mentioned in Lackmeyer's chat on Monday.

    https://oklahoman.com/article/563847...soccer-stadium

    Funk: Obviously the Producers Cooperative Oil Mill property, we thought that would be a good location three years ago. We also think Wheeler Park is a good location. I like the (recently cleared) Exchange site south of Farmers Public Market. It's only seven acres. I like Strawberry Fields west of Scissortail Park if we could ever find a way to make it work.

    We also looked at Wiley Post Park but access is the biggest issue there.

  23. #323

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    lol so basically forget about capitol hill.

  24. #324

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    Honestly I'd like to see Strawberry Fields built out as mixed use with no large scale attraction. Producers Coop would be a nice growth area for Bricktown, the canal, entertainment type options, and housing.

    Wheeler Park and Wiley Post Park both get me pretty excited. Both have access to the southside residents - Wheeler by pedestrian bridge (to be built) and Wiley Post could have a Pedestrian bridge connected from lower Scissortail Park.

    The only downside is less immediate access to amenities like bars/restaurants but maybe that could develop around the stadium.

  25. #325

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    lol so basically forget about capitol hill.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	south okc map.JPG 
Views:	20 
Size:	79.7 KB 
ID:	15521

    I think Wiley Post would absolutely bring Capitol Hill into the mix.

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