How OKC Is Consuming Rural Oklahoma

[Bunty]

It's not about rural Oklahoma losing residents to OKC. As the article concludes, "The rapid expansion of the OKC metropolitan area has consumed the once strictly rural areas, stripping small-town Oklahoma of its rural culture and forcing them to compensate for the added population without the benefit of sales tax."

http://www.ocolly.com/news/how-okc-i...212b2fc1b.html

[Mel]

Very good article. I have lived in Mustang since 1980 and the changes since then are enormous.

[mugofbeer]

OKC is a big city. Is there anything even remotely different with okcs growth as with Boston, St. Louis, Denver, Dallas or ANY other American city? Tuttle needs to make a plan, establish an area they want for a "downtown" and recruit developers. Ive seen it done in other cities across the country. Whats done is done, make the best of it and work to establish a Tuttle identity.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

OKC is a big city. Is there anything even remotely different with okcs growth as with Boston, St. Louis, Denver, Dallas or ANY other American city? Tuttle needs to make a plan, establish an area they want for a "downtown" and recruit developers. Ive seen it done in other cities across the country. Whats done is done, make the best of it and work to establish a Tuttle identity.

Put down that mug of beer! (Kidding of course)
That’s funny
Of course, they’ll need a Tuttle Boulevard and start planning a convention center.

[Bill Robertson]

OKC is a big city. Is there anything even remotely different with okcs growth as with Boston, St. Louis, Denver, Dallas or ANY other American city? Tuttle needs to make a plan, establish an area they want for a "downtown" and recruit developers. Ive seen it done in other cities across the country. Whats done is done, make the best of it and work to establish a Tuttle identity.

Being a HUGE Cardinals fan I go there at least a couple weekends a year during baseball season. I was amazed the first time that I went into a small museum in Union Station about the history of St. louis. The actual city is really small and required by charter to remain that way. Most of what you would think of as St. Louis is really separate towns all grown together into one big metro.

[mugofbeer]

As are a lot of the bigger cities.

[mugofbeer]

Put down that mug of beer! (Kidding of course)
That’s funny
Of course, they’ll need a Tuttle Boulevard and start planning a convention center.

Don't forget the Tuttle River.....

[ChrisHayes]

Boohoo. There are a lot of former small towns in the DFW Metroplex that are now becoming big cities in their own right. Live with, and embrace the growth. Not everyone wants to live in a stagnant city. As OKC Metro grows, the further out small towns will become the next Tuttles.

[ctchandler]

Whatever happened to the "Tuttle Shuttle"? It was famous on KTOK in the late 60's to the early 70's.
C. T.

[Bunty]

It's simply up to the commercial developers to finally join with the housing developers in Tuttle. Tuttle didn't get something as basic as a Dollar General Store until 2017.

[Bunty]

Whatever happened to the "Tuttle Shuttle"? It was famous on KTOK in the late 60's to the early 70's.
C. T.

I don't know, but Tuttle was adding on population fast during that period of time.

[Plutonic Panda]

Sprawl is a great thing and provides much higher QOL than urban areas give people. There is a reason majority of people live in it and the demand is so high. Millennials are moving back to suburbs in droves. I suspect Tuttle will be engulfed in a sea of suburban development with huge freeways much like what surrounds Dallas in a few decades. It’s a matter of time.

If Tuttle has a problem with the tax structure in Oklahoma being forced to rely on sales, then they need to hand together with other municipality that whines about it yet doesn’t lobby or do anything to instill change.

[SEMIweather]

Sprawl is a great thing and provides much higher QOL than urban areas give people. There is a reason majority of people live in it and the demand is so high. Millennials are moving back to suburbs in droves. I suspect Tuttle will be engulfed in a sea of suburban development with huge freeways much like what surrounds Dallas in a few decades. It’s a matter of time.

If Tuttle has a problem with the tax structure in Oklahoma being forced to rely on sales, then they need to hand together with other municipality that whines about it yet doesn’t lobby or do anything to instill change.

Lmao. Millennials are moving back to the suburbs largely because of a lack of affordable housing options in the cities due to God-awful restrictive zoning laws.

[TheTravellers]

Lmao. Millennials are moving back to the suburbs largely because of a lack of affordable housing options in the cities due to God-awful restrictive zoning laws.

, among other economic reasons, but they're not moving because they love the quality of life in sprawled out suburbia.

And I believe it would take far more than some municipalities getting together to lobby for change, it would most likely take a complete turnaround of the state legislature to enact using property taxes instead of sales taxes to fund things.

[The Shadow]

I don't know, but Tuttle was adding on population fast during that period of time.

Of course, you know why...

[oklip955]

Some of us move out to rural/suberbia because we have horses and or chickens or other animals. We don't like having a house 20' from ours. We garden and like to grow things. We like having a shop building to work on our projects which most in town properties don't allow. Not everyone want to live in the city or have to deal with the noise and other issues. We want the country life but want to be close enough for shopping/doctors/ etc.

[GoGators]

That’s an interesting article. Not sure there is any way to remedy the problem without allowing cities and towns direct access to property tax revenue for operations. Not allowing this revenue stream seems to cause major funding issues for both large cities and small towns . Probably the reason Oklahoma is the only state in the country that operates this way.

[Mel]

Some of us move out to rural/suberbia because we have horses and or chickens or other animals. We don't like having a house 20' from ours. We garden and like to grow things. We like having a shop building to work on our projects which most in town properties don't allow. Not everyone want to live in the city or have to deal with the noise and other issues. We want the country life but want to be close enough for shopping/doctors/ etc.

Well put.

[Jersey Boss]

That’s an interesting article. Not sure there is any way to remedy the problem without allowing cities and towns direct access to property tax revenue for operations. Not allowing this revenue stream seems to cause major funding issues for both large cities and small towns . Probably the reason Oklahoma is the only state in the country that operates this way.

That and not allowing cities to have an income tax either. The municipalities need to take hire some lobbyists to take some legislators out to dinner or what ever the do to cajole legislators and allow home rule in counties above a certain population threshold.

[Plutonic Panda]

Lmao. Millennials are moving back to the suburbs largely because of a lack of affordable housing options in the cities due to God-awful restrictive zoning laws.

Well there you have it folks.

Suburbs have much more lax zoning laws than cities do. Who knew?

[TheTravellers]

That and not allowing cities to have an income tax either. The municipalities need to take hire some lobbyists to take some legislators out to dinner or what ever the do to cajole legislators and allow home rule in counties above a certain population threshold.

Never, ever gonna happen (the home rule part).

[GoGators]

Well there you have it folks.

Suburbs have much more lax zoning laws than cities do. Who knew?

I don’t think the point was made that suburban zoning laws are more lax than urban. I think the point is that since demand is so high in urban areas throughout the country, the current urban zoning laws need to be updated to allow for more dense development. Increasing density in urban areas is the only way to bring costs down to a level where people aren’t forced to go to the suburbs in order to afford housing.

Choosing to live in the suburbs is cool, being forced to live in the suburbs because it’s the only thing you can afford is not ideal for people or cities.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^^^ sure there are points to be made on that but like with Los Angeles many developments proposed aren’t built to the maximum allowed use of the land. Many developments that could easily be built like the golf course redevelopment in Carson could have been built as a 10+ Skyscraper development with thousands of units and instead we’re getting a 5 story typical box residential apartment complex with 1000 or so units. That is usually left out in this discussion.

The issue of affordability is generally limited to coastal cities, especially the west coast. Though many are looking at best use of their dollar instead of “I wanna live here but it is financially impossible.” This is more than likely the case if OKC. There many affordable options near or even in the core yet you get more bang for your buck in the suburbs.

I completely agree with your last statement though as providing options for people. In LA those options really don’t exists less you want to live in poverty conditions. It’s ridiculous.

But laws removing R-1 zoning, automatically upzoning(IE transit density laws) constantly require makeshift solutions as many will start to oppose new developments entirely or transit lines whereas previously they would have been fine with it. This is happening now in the valley with the proposed north valley BRT line. People don’t want it now as they are afraid the area will be automatically upzoned within proximity of future transit stations.

The “those need an option” argument quickly gets thrown out the door when developments like tejon pass newhall ranch single family home developments are proposed. The argument quickly shifts to the environment and the goal posts are moved. Then we see what’s happening in SoCal with anti-freeway movements as of late.

But trends continue with people moving to areas sprawling out with a majority of the growth taking place in sprawl. Yes quality of life is higher and millennials are moving back for various reasons few point to the unaffordable cities that are found in few regions of the US. Denver is a special case. What excuses would SEMIWeather for many cities like Las Vegas, Phoenix, SLC, KC, STL, Chicago(arguably the largest affordable city), and virtually every city except west coast cities and NE coastal cities? Because many of those cities are affordable yet still are seeing their suburbs grow like crazy with millennials moving to them.

[ctchandler]

I don't know, but Tuttle was adding on population fast during that period of time.

Bunty,
It was a running joke on the morning talk show about the "Tuttle Shuttle". I think it was a Piper Cub in their joke.
C. T.

[Bunty]

Probably online shopping, led by Amazon, does as much to discourage commercial development in towns, such as Tuttle. On additional thought, I think my point would apply to all towns in Oklahoma.