2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

[TheTravellers]

Yeah, I think someone upthread said it best - it's inherently an unstable plane that they used a bunch of software/etc. to fix, which to my mind is unacceptable. They apparently needed to get something out fast to compete with Airbus, and didn't want to take the time to (re)design a new plane, they just "fixed" the old one.

[CloudDeckMedia]

One report said that the physical force required by a pilot to override MCAS is almost beyond human ability. Why would you design such a system!?

[CloudDeckMedia]

The prelim is out. It makes for very grim reading. http://www.ecaa.gov.et/documents/204...8-d7af1ee17f3e

[TheTravellers]

One report said that the physical force required by a pilot to override MCAS is almost beyond human ability. Why would you design such a system!?

Articles mentioned that the pilots may have had to turn the MCAS back on to get more assist to actually get control, yeah, it's insanely stupid and a result of deregulation (letting Boeing sign off on its own inspections/etc.) and race to beat Airbus. This is what you get when you do things cheap and let companies do their own thing (literally), disgusting that this even happened (twice), and has been an issue other times, since it was avoidable. But profit....

[jonny d]

This thread, man.

[TheTravellers]

This thread, man.

Yeah, sorry, now that the report's out, I'm done with the hijack.

[jonny d]

Yeah, sorry, now that the report's out, I'm done with the hijack.

Haha, you're fine. Not mad or calling anyone out. Just curious how this all started.

[jedicurt]

Haha, you're fine. Not mad or calling anyone out. Just curious how this all started.

i like the thread... just wish it had been created under a it's own, instead of hijacking this one. but hopefully the derailment is done for awhile, and we can get back to OKC Aviation

[catch22]

March numbers are in. Growth continues: American solidifies #2 spot in OKC.

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/fil...nplanement.pdf

[HangryHippo]

March numbers are in. Growth continues: American solidifies #2 spot in OKC.

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/fil...nplanement.pdf

AA appears to be killing it.

United...yikes.

[jonny d]

I still think OKC set the expansion up to fail by pre-leasing all the available gates to Delta, who has no interest in expanding OKC. So the new gates will sit almost idle while American is expanding in OKC greatly. Sigh...

[d-usa]

i think it makes more sense to have an airline with more fights in an area where gates are more dense, and where tarmac operations can be more centralized. Why spread American out along gates on a single side if you can use both sides of the terminal with gates closer together and across from each other. That’s makes better use of waiting areas and it’s easier for communicating with waiting passengers.

[damonsmuz]

FWIW, The United numbers being down probably has a lot to do with the "bomb cyclone" that struck in mid-March. DIA closed and had ripple affects for days. On top of that, lots of snow storms in in early March created all sorts of delays/cancellations in the first half of the month.

I wouldn't fret too much over how much United is down this month.

[jonny d]

i think it makes more sense to have an airline with more fights in an area where gates are more dense, and where tarmac operations can be more centralized. Why spread American out along gates on a single side if you can use both sides of the terminal with gates closer together and across from each other. That’s makes better use of waiting areas and it’s easier for communicating with waiting passengers.

I can see that. Makes sense.

I am just wondering why we are building a massive expansion for a very minimal number of flights per day, Unless Delta has an agreement in place to expand services in OKC, there will be hardly any action in the new terminal. The Delta gates are busy in the morning, then nothing. We will see. I hope it doesn't bite OK

[brianinok]

FWIW, The United numbers being down probably has a lot to do with the "bomb cyclone" that struck in mid-March. DIA closed and had ripple affects for days. On top of that, lots of snow storms in in early March created all sorts of delays/cancellations in the first half of the month.

I wouldn't fret too much over how much United is down this month.

I took a r/t on the non-stop United to SFO in March and both flights were about 80% capacity. In the past when I've taken this flight it had always been oversold. Granted I am a small sample size, but I was actually shocked at how low both flights were.

[Snowman]

I still think OKC set the expansion up to fail by pre-leasing all the available gates to Delta, who has no interest in expanding OKC. So the new gates will sit almost idle while American is expanding in OKC greatly. Sigh...

Delta may just be the most willing of the majors to move, Southwest may prefer just taking over one or more gates Delta currently uses, United is not trending in a way that indicates needs more space. American seems the most likely alternative since that would get them another gate now, but has more risk of not being able to get a 5th gate close to the others any time soon, as who knows when or if phase 2 of the east expansion will be built.

[brianinok]

Delta may just be the most willing of the majors to move, Southwest may prefer just taking over one or more gates Delta currently uses, United is not trending in a way that indicates needs more space. American seems the most likely alternative since that would get them another gate now, but has more risk of not being able to get a 5th gate close to the others any time soon, as who knows when or if phase 2 of the east expansion will be built.

Could the airport make everyone "shift" to the east to give American another gate or two in the west end of the west concourse? Or do their gate leases prevent something like that? It seems like American is trending in a way they will want another gate (or more) but for efficiency I would assume they want it next to their current ones.

[d-usa]

Isn’t the old Allegiant gate down their way?

[BG918]

I still think OKC set the expansion up to fail by pre-leasing all the available gates to Delta, who has no interest in expanding OKC. So the new gates will sit almost idle while American is expanding in OKC greatly. Sigh...

Yeah I just don’t see Delta expanding outside of MSP, DTW, ATL and SLC though some of these could see higher frequency. New York LGA or JFK would be a nice add. I don’t see Delta trying to compete with AA and Allegiant for LAX. Same goes for Alaska to Seattle. I could see OKC (and TUL) to AUS when Delta builds up their focus City there, but that’s a few years away.

[HangryHippo]

Hasn't Delta been growing in Boston as well? That'd be a nice addition for OKC.

[catch22]

American reduces OKC-PHL for the summer season to 1x daily. 2x returns in the fall.

That’s odd timing for a reduction during peak months which leads me to believe this is MAX grounding related. It’s a roundabout way of covering MAX flights by moving 76 seat capacity into other marginal markets to free up larger airplanes to cover for the MAX outage thru August.

This does tell us that OKC-PHL at 2x daily is marginal enough for t to be an easy capacity cut to move capacity elsewhere. It’s strong enough however that they appear to resume 2x daily service once MAX capacity returns in the fall. Subject to change however as the max grounding could end sooner or be pushed later. Please keep discussion about the circumstances of the MAX grounding in a different thread. This thread is only intended to discuss service changes at OKC.

[BG918]

Speaking of PHL I noticed XNA is getting a nonstop on AA this fall. 1x daily. Hopefully they add TUL as well.

[warreng88]

Anybody know when Frontier Airlines will announce if they are continuing direct service to MCO beyond August?

[catch22]

Their schedule is open until November, so if it’s not bookable now it probably won’t be.

Frontier schedules like Southwest, where changes are built into future schedule extensions and very rarely overlaid on an existing schedule. Whereas AA, AS, DL, UA typically publish dummy schedules far into the future and roll out changes monthly that “lock in” the 60 day window, firm up the 90 window, and make large adjustments (new routes, added frequencies etc.) to the 120 day window.

[no1cub17]

American reduces OKC-PHL for the summer season to 1x daily. 2x returns in the fall.

That’s odd timing for a reduction during peak months which leads me to believe this is MAX grounding related. It’s a roundabout way of covering MAX flights by moving 76 seat capacity into other marginal markets to free up larger airplanes to cover for the MAX outage thru August.

This does tell us that OKC-PHL at 2x daily is marginal enough for t to be an easy capacity cut to move capacity elsewhere. It’s strong enough however that they appear to resume 2x daily service once MAX capacity returns in the fall. Subject to change however as the max grounding could end sooner or be pushed later. Please keep discussion about the circumstances of the MAX grounding in a different thread. This thread is only intended to discuss service changes at OKC.

Interesting - I haven't looked yet but which OKC- PHL flight survived? The early morning (~530 AM IIRC) or late morning? Hopefully the late morning departure (~11 AM) survived - that flight is perfect for connecting to AA's European bank. Haven't had a chance to use it yet but sure hope to this summer.