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  1. #126

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    After 10am, their gate utilization is essentially 1 gate. And they will be the exclusive tenant. So the citizens build a $100-million upgrades concourse that only a handful of passengers will use outside of peak hours. Should have gone to southwest or American who would utilize the new gates much heavier and thus give a better experience to more passengers.
    Got it - thanks! Didn't realize DL's utilization was so low after the morning rush.

  2. #127

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by no1cub17 View Post
    Got it - thanks! Didn't realize DL's utilization was so low after the morning rush.
    Delta’s flight schedule tomorrow indicates a grand total of 10 departures. 5 of which are to ATL. They will be taking the most prime real estate in the concourse and squandering it.

  3. Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Is there any time for pushback to allow AA or SWA to use them?

  4. Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    Deltaís flight schedule tomorrow indicates a grand total of 10 departures. 5 of which are to ATL. They will be taking the most prime real estate in the concourse and squandering it.
    Wow, 10 departures total? AA has almost that many just to DFW. And SWA is obviously the largest carrier.

  5. #130

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread


  6. #131

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Better

    https://flyokc.com/sites/default/fil...nplanement.pdf

    Really getting sunk by frontier basically pulling out.

  7. #132

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    Better

    https://flyokc.com/sites/default/fil...nplanement.pdf

    Really getting sunk by frontier basically pulling out.
    Why do you think they are not successful here but Allegiant is?

  8. #133

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrator View Post
    Why do you think they are not successful here but Allegiant is?
    Probably a better question for catch but their routes are just weird and no promotion. San Antonio and San Diego both failed. Not much business between the two. Didn’t capture the leisure market quite like they hoped I guess.

  9. #134

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Is Frontier only flying to just DEN now?

  10. #135

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    They are unsuccessful pretty much everywhere. They add routes, and take them away just as quickly. They would have better luck going back to the old frontier model and providing at least daily, if not greater than daily service in markets. Going back to a hub and spoke.

    They simply can’t maintain any level of consistent service to siphon passengers away from the real airlines. People try them once and hats it. Spirit used to be this way but have improved vastly.

  11. #136

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    They are unsuccessful pretty much everywhere. They add routes, and take them away just as quickly. They would have better luck going back to the old frontier model and providing at least daily, if not greater than daily service in markets. Going back to a hub and spoke.

    They simply can’t maintain any level of consistent service to siphon passengers away from the real airlines. People try them once and hats it. Spirit used to be this way but have improved vastly.
    I think once people get used to flying frontier to Denver to connect, and they establish a brand then they can add these random directs. They never really established a brand here though.

    I have no doubt if American or southwest tried a San Antonio direct flight it would do just fine.

  12. #137

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    I think once people get used to flying frontier to Denver to connect, and they establish a brand then they can add these random directs. They never really established a brand here though.

    I have no doubt if American or southwest tried a San Antonio direct flight it would do just fine.
    AA to San Antonio would be nice!

  13. #138

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    I think once people get used to flying frontier to Denver to connect, and they establish a brand then they can add these random directs. They never really established a brand here though.

    I have no doubt if American or southwest tried a San Antonio direct flight it would do just fine.
    It’s hard to build any sort of connection potential on less than daily flights. Some of their connections require overnights in denver or even ungodly lengths of time during the same day (7+ hours).

    It is amateur hour down the street at Frontier HQ.

  14. #139

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Flew on a 737 max last night as FAA said they were safe yet half the globe is grounding them. It doesn’t sound too scary until you’re on the plane and the crash safety info card is staring you in the face labeled 737. Given the crashes happened moments after takeoff it makes for a nail biting couple of minutes of pitch, AFTER they decided to take nearly 400 gallons (2,500lbs) of fuel out of the tanks just before flight.

  15. #140

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    I think people are being a little hysterical about the max. American pilots are the gold standard. There might be something wrong with the max but I also think there’s a reason the crashes happened to 2 new 3rd world country airlines.

  16. #141

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    They aren’t unsafe, but they are some concerning issues with it. Two hull losses on a fleet that small is extremely alarming.

    I won’t board one until we get some more clarity.

    Aviation is safe because of redundancy. It’s the Swiss cheese model. I personally feel the way the MCAS system was designed on the MAX and inadequately trained to the pilots, the holes are HUGE. American pilots may be the “gold standard” but aviation is not designed to have Chuck Yeager in every cockpit seat. The system is designed for average pilots. System (mechanical) failures rarely ever have the chance to even make a pilot a hero. Something fails and the redundancy kicks in and the pilot continues to sip his coffee. No one is the wiser. You really don’t want an airplane that requires a gold standard pilot. It helps. But if only the best of the best can fly the airplane, it should not be certified for passenger use. I’m boarding a bus with wings, not a fighter jet.

    The MCAS system is flawed and contributed to the loss of 189 souls in October,and the FAA requires Boeing to implement fixes before April. The MCAS system is disabled with autopilot ON, and enabled with autopilot OFF. Think about the implications of a system designed to override the pilot. The system will shut itself off if the pilot trims against the MCAS, but will automatically reactive itself after 5 seconds.

    Imagine cruising down the highway at 75 mph and seeing a slowdown ahead and turning cruise control off with your brake pedal (which is a normal memory item for you), only to have the cruise control re-engage after 5 seconds and accelerate back up to your selected speed. You disengage it again and the car slows back down and 5 seconds later it engages and brings you back up to cruise speed. Both hands are likely on the steering wheel now as you try to control the direction of your car as you navigate around smashing into the stopped traffic. On the side of your center console is the cruise control cutoff switch. How long will it take you to reach over and cut it off before it’s too late?

  17. #142

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    It’s hard to build any sort of connection potential on less than daily flights. Some of their connections require overnights in denver or even ungodly lengths of time during the same day (7+ hours).

    It is amateur hour down the street at Frontier HQ.
    This is it. I've never flown Frontier. I would but the connections are awful.

    Here's an example. Father in law lives in El Paso. The drive is a bear. flights for 4 people are $364 per person with anyone other than frontier out of OKC. But Frontier has flights for $185 per person. That's basically half price. but it's just not even doable. So just pulling one up and it leaves at 830pm and gets to Denver at 9:15pm. Then 14 hours later you fly from Denver to El Paso.

    Then the flight back has a 3.5 hour layover (which isn't horrendous)

    The other issue is that you can fly out on Friday and back the next Saturday. I don't want to spend 8 days with Father in law. wanting to do a fly out fri back on Monday. so the kiddos can see their grandpa.

    looking though and Frontier does have direct flights to MCO. It's about $20 more per person than Allegiant but it flies you into MCO instead of SFB. Also Allegiant only flies that what looks like once a week. Out on Fridays back on Saturdays. At least Frontier has some flights out on Thursdays and back on Sundays.

  18. #143

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    They aren’t unsafe, but they are some concerning issues with it. Two hull losses on a fleet that small is extremely alarming.

    I won’t board one until we get some more clarity.

    Aviation is safe because of redundancy. It’s the Swiss cheese model. I personally feel the way the MCAS system was designed on the MAX and inadequately trained to the pilots, the holes are HUGE. American pilots may be the “gold standard” but aviation is not designed to have Chuck Yeager in every cockpit seat. The system is designed for average pilots. System (mechanical) failures rarely ever have the chance to even make a pilot a hero. Something fails and the redundancy kicks in and the pilot continues to sip his coffee. No one is the wiser. You really don’t want an airplane that requires a gold standard pilot. It helps. But if only the best of the best can fly the airplane, it should not be certified for passenger use. I’m boarding a bus with wings, not a fighter jet.

    The MCAS system is flawed and contributed to the loss of 189 souls in October,and the FAA requires Boeing to implement fixes before April. The MCAS system is disabled with autopilot ON, and enabled with autopilot OFF. Think about the implications of a system designed to override the pilot. The system will shut itself off if the pilot trims against the MCAS, but will automatically reactive itself after 5 seconds.

    Imagine cruising down the highway at 75 mph and seeing a slowdown ahead and turning cruise control off with your brake pedal (which is a normal memory item for you), only to have the cruise control re-engage after 5 seconds and accelerate back up to your selected speed. You disengage it again and the car slows back down and 5 seconds later it engages and brings you back up to cruise speed. Both hands are likely on the steering wheel now as you try to control the direction of your car as you navigate around smashing into the stopped traffic. On the side of your center console is the cruise control cutoff switch. How long will it take you to reach over and cut it off before it’s too late?
    That makes lots of sense.

    Kinda a non issue now that it’s grounded all over.

  19. #144

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    I think people are being a little hysterical about the max. American pilots are the gold standard. There might be something wrong with the max but I also think there’s a reason the crashes happened to 2 new 3rd world country airlines.
    There is reason for concern with the this aircraft. Stereotyping about other airlines is not accurate in this case concerning Ethiopian Airlines.
    https://thepointsguy.com/news/despit...safety-record/

  20. #145

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    I think people are being a little hysterical about the max. American pilots are the gold standard. There might be something wrong with the max but I also think thereís a reason the crashes happened to 2 new 3rd world country airlines.
    What an utterly insulting post. What, so developing countries can't have perfectly safe airlines? What kind of joke is that? Yes Ethiopia might not be as well off as the US, but Ethiopian Airlines is a fantastic airline, widely considered to be the best in Africa. And while Lion Air has a dodgy past, they'd mostly had their act together the past few years. Indonesia is also a rapidly developing country. If you don't know what you're talking about, best to keep quiet. Then again, posts like yours fit in perfectly on airliners.net these days.

  21. #146

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by no1cub17 View Post
    What an utterly insulting post. What, so developing countries can't have perfectly safe airlines? What kind of joke is that? Yes Ethiopia might not be as well off as the US, but Ethiopian Airlines is a fantastic airline, widely considered to be the best in Africa. And while Lion Air has a dodgy past, they'd mostly had their act together the past few years. Indonesia is also a rapidly developing country. If you don't know what you're talking about, best to keep quiet. Then again, posts like yours fit in perfectly on airliners.net these days.
    Thereís a real life economic difference between a 3rd world developing country and the United States. In every aspect of life, from banking, to the human capital available, infrastructure, price of Jet A. Itís not insulating itís just the facts.

    So itís not surprising the two crashes came from 3rd world countries, not the US, Arab, or Europe airlines. And I didnít say unsafe, I implied theyíre less safe.

  22. #147

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    And I didn’t say unsafe, I implied they’re less safe.
    Which is total BS. I'm sorry but that's what it is. So far there is ZERO indication to indicate that these crashes had anything to do with both airlines being in developing countries. To be honest you sound like you've never set foot in one. There is nothing less safe about Ethiopian Airlines compared to any other major airline around the world. Please stop with the racist nonsense. Are you implying that Ethiopia doesn't have access to Jet A? That they don't train their pilots to international standards? You obviously know nothing about what life in a developing country is like except what you see on faux news. It's easy for you to sit in your bubble and blame a poor African or Asian country - when that had zero basis in reality and quite likely nothing to do with why those two planes crashed.

  23. #148

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Haha American pilots are the gold standard? Tell that to the families of AA587 or CO3407 or DL5191. Let me guess - those must have also occurred in third world countries! Yes, US pilots are in general top notch, but they're human too. They're just humans from a rich country. Fully trained pilots from developing countries deserve the same benefit of the doubt.

  24. #149

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    I saw where there has been a flurry of 737 MAX aircraft landing inTulsa today, heading to the Mx base

  25. #150

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by no1cub17 View Post
    Haha American pilots are the gold standard? Tell that to the families of AA587 or CO3407 or DL5191. Let me guess - those must have also occurred in third world countries! Yes, US pilots are in general top notch, but they're human too. They're just humans from a rich country. Fully trained pilots from developing countries deserve the same benefit of the doubt.
    That means the training in a 3rd world country (or even a developing country) is the same as here in the US (or other 1st world countries)? If so, then yes. But I doubt they have the access to the same training and expertise that US pilots do.

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