2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

[catch22]

And this can’t be undone/reversed?

While Oscar won’t touch current labor, they aren’t interested in opening up new work. Although our union contract does provide the ability to take that work over again if certain metrics are met.

[HangryHippo]

While Oscar won’t touch current labor, they aren’t interested in opening up new work. Although our union contract does provide the ability to take that work over again if certain metrics are met.

Do you see that changing at some point and the union taking it back on?

[catch22]

Do you see that changing at some point and the union taking it back on?

Probably not here, it requires a 35 flight per day average over any 90 day period. An example schedule that would get us there is: 10x daily IAH, 8x daily to ORD, 7x daily to DEN, 3x EWR, 4x SFO, and 3x IAD.

Highly unlikely

[HangryHippo]

Probably not here, it requires a 35 flight per day average over any 90 day period. An example schedule that would get us there is: 10x daily IAH, 8x daily to ORD, 7x daily to DEN, 3x EWR, 4x SFO, and 3x IAD.

Highly unlikely

Wow. Yeah, unlikely. lol

[HOT ROD]

just curious how many stations have United employees then? Can't be that many that have 35 flights a day on average. ...

[Jeepnokc]

It was the final blow of the hammer of the Smisek cost cutting era. He outsourced a total of 40 stations and put thousands of people out of work and replaced them by near minimum wage contractors.

Who I noticed in the paper this weekend is hiring for ramp positions

[BG918]

Allegiant now flies to VPS (Destin FL) from both OKC and TUL seasonally. The TUL flights start in June. The FL panhandle seems like a popular vacation spot for Oklahomans so it will probably do well. Allegiant is also the right airline/equipment for this flight. I would love to see them try New Orleans again.

[catch22]

just curious how many stations have United employees then? Can't be that many that have 35 flights a day on average. ...

Keep in mind that is only what it takes to force an insourcing scenario, not what was a requirement for initial cut. Current mainline staffed outstations are: SEA, PDX, HNL, OGG, SAN, LAS, PHX, RNO, BIL, AUS, DFW, SNA, TUL, CLE, MCO, TPA, BOS, LGA, MSP, DTW, DCA.

[HangryHippo]

TUL but not OKC? Interesting. How did they escape Smisek's knife?

[catch22]

TUL but not OKC? Interesting. How did they escape Smisek's knife?

They voluntarily lowered their pay and relaxed some work rules. Oscar restored their pay and work rules consistent with the rest of the stations after he took over.

[no1cub17]

Not OKC related but saw a rumor that AA is going to start TUL-PHL flights as well. Really suggests that 1) OKC-PHL is doing well and 2) the PHL hub is far more profitable than some armchair CEOs thought it would be (on a.net anyway). Unless this is coming with a reduction to 1x/day for OKC-PHL which I have not seen mentioned anywhere...

[jonny d]

Not OKC related but saw a rumor that AA is going to start TUL-PHL flights as well. Really suggests that 1) OKC-PHL is doing well and 2) the PHL hub is far more profitable than some armchair CEOs thought it would be (on a.net anyway). Unless this is coming with a reduction to 1x/day for OKC-PHL which I have not seen mentioned anywhere...

Means more, to me, that Tulsa is trying a lot harder to market their airport. OKC keeps getting more to already established locales. But where are the new destinations? Has the OKC to Nashville flight even started? OKC will have no more advantages over TUL if they don't get more new destinations.

[no1cub17]

Means more, to me, that Tulsa is trying a lot harder to market their airport. OKC keeps getting more to already established locales. But where are the new destinations? Has the OKC to Nashville flight even started? OKC will have no more advantages over TUL if they don't get more new destinations.

Not sure what you mean? TUL-PHL isn't exactly an earth-shattering route. A good add for TUL, but I doubt TUL had to market connecting TUL to one of AA's largest hubs in PHL. That's not terribly risky for AA.

OKC isn't doing too badly in terms of being connected to most legacy carrier's hubs. Obviously there are holes (LGA, MIA, etc), but overall OKC is doing decently well I'd say. AA adding OKC-PHL at 2x/daily on E75s (AA's most comfortable ride IMO) is a pretty solid add.

The only carrier I could see adding OKC-BNA would be WN, not any of the legacies.

[jonny d]

Not sure what you mean? TUL-PHL isn't exactly an earth-shattering route. A good add for TUL, but I doubt TUL had to market connecting TUL to one of AA's largest hubs in PHL. That's not terribly risky for AA.

OKC isn't doing too badly in terms of being connected to most legacy carrier's hubs. Obviously there are holes (LGA, MIA, etc), but overall OKC is doing decently well I'd say. AA adding OKC-PHL at 2x/daily on E75s (AA's most comfortable ride IMO) is a pretty solid add.

The only carrier I could see adding OKC-BNA would be WN, not any of the legacies.

TUL has San Jose, as well.

I thought OKC to BNA was already announced to begin last year. A flight to NYC, BOS, as well as PDX would be a killer year. I just think the airports in this state cannibalize themselves by offering all of the same destinations.

[sooner333]

Means more, to me, that Tulsa is trying a lot harder to market their airport. OKC keeps getting more to already established locales. But where are the new destinations? Has the OKC to Nashville flight even started? OKC will have no more advantages over TUL if they don't get more new destinations.

Sure it will, there will be more options in terms of time of day, connections, etc. Not to mention the built-in advantage of a larger population base from which to draw passengers.

[no1cub17]

TUL has San Jose, as well.

I thought OKC to BNA was already announced to begin last year. A flight to NYC, BOS, as well as PDX would be a killer year. I just think the airports in this state cannibalize themselves by offering all of the same destinations.

Who flies TUL-SJC? Wikipedia says F9 seasonally. That hardly counts.

[BG918]

Who flies TUL-SJC? Wikipedia says F9 seasonally. That hardly counts.

TUL is missing some big links that OKC has like SFO, SEA, IAD and EWR. PHL would be great for restoring some connectivity to the Northeast and Europe. SEA will likely be added by Alaska this year. Not sure if United would try SFO or not, how does the OKC flight perform?

The TUL wish list would probably be PHL and LGA on AA, SEA on Alaska, BWI, DCA and BNA on Southwest and SFO on United. That and increased mainline capacity to hubs like DFW, IAH, ORD, ATL and DEN. AA resuming LAX in April fills a big hole in the network and it would be nice to eventually see that go 2x/daily.

[amocore]

Means more, to me, that Tulsa is trying a lot harder to market their airport. OKC keeps getting more to already established locales. But where are the new destinations? Has the OKC to Nashville flight even started? OKC will have no more advantages over TUL if they don't get more new destinations.

Hard to be impressed with Tulsa air service.

10 years ago both OKC and TUL were both aroudn 3.2 or 3.3 millions of passengers. Now OKC is 4.3 while Tulsa just made it over 3 mil back from 2.8.
I am not sure why they have been taking such a hit while OKC is doing fairly well.

[Bellaboo]

Means more, to me, that Tulsa is trying a lot harder to market their airport. OKC keeps getting more to already established locales. But where are the new destinations? Has the OKC to Nashville flight even started? OKC will have no more advantages over TUL if they don't get more new destinations.

Friend of mine flew it back in December I believe.

[SEMIweather]

Hard to be impressed with Tulsa air service.

10 years ago both OKC and TUL were both aroudn 3.2 or 3.3 millions of passengers. Now OKC is 4.3 while Tulsa just made it over 3 mil back from 2.8.
I am not sure why they have been taking such a hit while OKC is doing fairly well.

Does the increased service at XNA bleed any passengers from TUL?

[BG918]

Does the increased service at XNA bleed any passengers from TUL?

Possibly in the counties east of Tulsa. There is a nonstop to LGA that neither OKC or TUL offer. No Southwest though so fares are pretty high (I’m sure Wal-Mart has something to do with that too)

[HOT ROD]

but in fairness, im sure OKC has more bleed to DFW and DAL than TUL has to XNA. Yet OKC still had significant growth and significantly the most busy airport in the state.

I'd honestly attribute this to OKC's population size (>400K vs TUL) and the city's flight options are being met.

[Questor]

I’m surprised we have no direct nonstop flights into Florida at all, except for the one seasonal flight to the emerald coast.

Are there any plans to add some in the near future? It is odd to me given FL is still one of the most popular domestic vacation destinations that we only have the one seasonal flight.

[catch22]

I’m hopeful that AA will add MIA at some point.

Florida, however is challenging from Oklahoma for the very reasons you mention. It is a very popular leisure destination. People going on vacation are the most cost sensitive travelers that exist. There is very limited natural business ties between OKC and Florida, so business traffic is limited in its ability to drive higher fares in these markets. The result is that it is cheaper for the airlines to send you to Dallas, Houston, and Atlanta to get you there as cheap as possible. Nonstop flights have been attempted time and time again and seem to always fail.

However, service to florida is better than it has been in the past. Allegiant can take you to VPS and SFB, while Frontier can take you to MCO. I think Frontier to MCO is year round or close to it, it just operates less than daily.

[no1cub17]

Yeah and most of those vacationers have no problems driving 12 hours to save several hundred in airfare. We know several families who go to Destin every year and drive.