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  1. #26

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Wow - a 10% jump is impressive no matter how you look at it. Amazing though that DL, AA, and WN all grew, while UA really declined. Not sure why that would be - as catch alluded to earlier, doesn't make much sense. Yes AA is helped by how close and huge DFW is but it's not like UA doesn't have solid hubs in DEN/SFO/ORD that it can't leverage?

  2. #27

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Purely anecdotal, but it always seems like when I need to fly, United's times and/or fares suck and I end up choosing another airline.

  3. #28

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    While not groundbreaking this goes to show that AA is fairly serious about making OKC an important market for them.

    Gate 8.


  4. #29

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    It's too bad it's not Delta or United experiencing this kind of growth out of OKC, because I don't care for Parker and think AA is really deteriorating under his "leadership".

  5. #30

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    It's too bad it's not Delta or United experiencing this kind of growth out of OKC, because I don't care for Parker and think AA is really deteriorating under his "leadership".
    Despite of the fact that I work for United, I’ve always had a soft spot for AA and am happy to have them expand in OKC. I am just frustrated that UA has let OKC service slip so much in the past few years since they closed OKC.

  6. #31

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    Despite of the fact that I work for United, I’ve always had a soft spot for AA and am happy to have them expand in OKC. I am just frustrated that UA has let OKC service slip so much in the past few years since they closed OKC.
    Iím happy for the expansion as well - itís certainly made my life easier.

    I canít remember why United closed OKC? Just underperforming?

  7. #32

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I’m happy for the expansion as well - it’s certainly made my life easier.

    I can’t remember why United closed OKC? Just underperforming?
    It was the final blow of the hammer of the Smisek cost cutting era. He outsourced a total of 40 stations and put thousands of people out of work and replaced them by near minimum wage contractors.

  8. #33

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    It was the final blow of the hammer of the Smisek cost cutting era. He outsourced a total of 40 stations and put thousands of people out of work and replaced them by near minimum wage contractors.
    That's right. I had forgotten ole' Smisek. How are things going under Munoz? Things improving?

  9. #34

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    That's right. I had forgotten ole' Smisek. How are things going under Munoz? Things improving?
    Morale is at multi decade long highs, we are making money, and even though I’m biased we put out a pretty decent product compared to what we were doing in the first part of the decade. I’m very happy to say I work for United. If we would have held on just a few months longer, OKC and the other 28 stations that were closed during the final round would have been safe under Munoz. Unfortunately there’s no reversing it, but it’s unfortunate we didn’t make it just a little longer.

  10. Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    While not groundbreaking this goes to show that AA is fairly serious about making OKC an important market for them.

    Gate 8.

    That's nice to see! While I fly all 4 of the major airlines in OKC, my favorite and most frequent is AA. I typically fly Delta and United about once a year, and Southwest less than that. Occasionally something comes up and if I need to go to one of the cities a non-AA airline flies to non-stop I do it though. I'm very disappointed that Delta is getting the new gates and not American. I hope that there is some shifting around and American ends up with more gates, though.

    I do wonder, what do some of you airline people think of what seems to be a very strategic AA move in OKC? Do you think this is part of a planned, sustained campaign to grow their business here, or are they doing this in a multitude of cities right now? I assume most of the capacity is coming from RJs (though good, comfortable RJs overall) but it looks like we have a couple more mainline to DFW and a new one coming to PHX. So that's up a little from a year or two ago. I assume they don't just throw darts at a dartboard, that they study yields and loads and apparently OKC keeps responding to the extra capacity so they keep giving us more? Realistically, how far can this go in the next year or two? Add MIA and one of the NYC airports? Maybe a couple mainline additions to hubs other than DFW and PHX? Could it ever lead to an Admiral's Club? What kind of AA traffic do some of the smallest Admiral's Club cities have?

  11. Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by brianinok View Post
    Could it ever lead to an Admiral's Club? What kind of AA traffic do some of the smallest Admiral's Club cities have?
    I just did a little math. AA had 22.8% market share in December, which equates to 989k passengers for a year (I'm sure I could have added up all their passengers for the year but I didn't take the time). Looking at the list of Admiral's Clubs on the AA website I thought Orange County looked like a good candidate for lowest AA traffic. It has 1.6 million annual AA passengers. So, still over 600k less than what I assume is the lowest end of the spectrum.

  12. #37

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    While I’m not for certain what could cause their sudden interest, I assume that it would be them seeing OKC as a satellite market of DFW, just like AUS and SAT are. They are close enough to DFW to funnel a ton of connecting capacity, and drive brand loyalty from shear volume while capitalizing on that same loyalty by providing good connectivity from other hubs and now good nonstop service in the form of DCA.

  13. #38

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Regarding your other point, they are connecting the dots in a lot of cities right now. So it’s not just OKC. I think now that they are fully digested in the US/AA merger they have opportunities to really expand on the individual strengths of the combined network. It seems they have identified cities where they can add some growth. But OKC is an outlier in the amount of added service adjusted for the length of time they have done so. I wouldn’t be surprised to see larger airplanes on DFW (A321?) at some point soon as well as some continued frequency adds here and there. I wouldn’t be surprised to see MIA also.

  14. #39

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Catch - Whatís with the lack of connection to NYC? I keep hoping weíll get a flight to LGA/JFK, but it never happens. Might AA add one of them? United doesnít seem to think the market for EWR is very robust as it remains seasonal. Itís been a bit since I flew it, but I donít remember that flight being timed very favorably either...?

  15. #40

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Catch - What’s with the lack of connection to NYC? I keep hoping we’ll get a flight to LGA/JFK, but it never happens. Might AA add one of them? United doesn’t seem to think the market for EWR is very robust as it remains seasonal. It’s been a bit since I flew it, but I don’t remember that flight being timed very favorably either...?
    I could see either delta or American trying something to NY at some point. OKC isn’t getting any smaller and eventually you’ll hit the tipping point where marginal routes become an easier business case. We seem to be hitting that point in some regards.

  16. #41

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    It's too bad it's not Delta or United experiencing this kind of growth out of OKC, because I don't care for Parker and think AA is really deteriorating under his "leadership".
    Oh my god, don't even get me started. It's absolutely disgusting what Dougie has done to AA, particularly AAdvantage, which is a shell of it's former self. It's strange - AA has done some things such as enhance f/b options in the ACs, but OTOH they're making their Y product literally the worst in the industry. It's bizarre. Maybe that's why AA's stock price continues to tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by brianinok View Post
    I just did a little math. AA had 22.8% market share in December, which equates to 989k passengers for a year (I'm sure I could have added up all their passengers for the year but I didn't take the time). Looking at the list of Admiral's Clubs on the AA website I thought Orange County looked like a good candidate for lowest AA traffic. It has 1.6 million annual AA passengers. So, still over 600k less than what I assume is the lowest end of the spectrum.
    That is interesting indeed, thanks for posting that. I'd posted here before about not just an AC but about how I thought a shared lounge might work (like the Airspace lounge at SAN), and got shot down, LOL. But it's interesting to see those numbers. SNA has far more frequency and I'd imagine is far more higher yielding than OKC though. Not to mention the AC there serves passengers who use LAX as well. Pretty sure AA is the largest of the US3 in the LA basin now.

  17. #42

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    It was the final blow of the hammer of the Smisek cost cutting era. He outsourced a total of 40 stations and put thousands of people out of work and replaced them by near minimum wage contractors.
    What a damn shame - I didn't realize that was a Jeff special. As much as I hate Dougie, SMI/J may be literally the worst airline CEO in history, well other than James Hogan. I don't fly UA much but their award availability is infinitely better than AA's, and we've had a pleasant experience whenever we've flown them. Maybe time to status match!

  18. #43

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    Despite of the fact that I work for United, I’ve always had a soft spot for AA and am happy to have them expand in OKC. I am just frustrated that UA has let OKC service slip so much in the past few years since they closed OKC.
    Catch22, I’m not familiar with the UA “closed OKC” story. Would you mind refreshing? Thanks.

  19. #44

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DelCamino View Post
    Catch22, I’m not familiar with the UA “closed OKC” story. Would you mind refreshing? Thanks.
    OKC along with many other stations across the country were staffed and operated by United itself. United employees. In 2014 they outsourced 12 cities to contract vendors who have no affiliation to United. In March 2015 OKC joined a list that included 28 other cities that were also contracted out to the lowest bidder. Approximately 5,000 middle class jobswere displaced by vendors paying food stamp wages. Some people took an enhanced severance, others went on furlough, and some of us accepted transfers to other stations to keep our jobs.

    The people working the ticket counter and loading your bags in OKC and many other cities across the country do not work for United, have no loyalty to United, and ultimately have no vested interest in whether you have a good experience or not. It’s entirely possible for you to fly out of OKC and not have a single interaction during your entire iteneray with someone who is a United employee.

  20. #45

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    OKC along with many other stations across the country were staffed and operated by United itself. United employees. In 2014 they outsourced 12 cities to contract vendors who have no affiliation to United. In March 2015 OKC joined a list that included 28 other cities that were also contracted out to the lowest bidder. Approximately 5,000 middle class jobswere displaced by vendors paying food stamp wages. Some people took an enhanced severance, others went on furlough, and some of us accepted transfers to other stations to keep our jobs.

    The people working the ticket counter and loading your bags in OKC and many other cities across the country do not work for United, have no loyalty to United, and ultimately have no vested interest in whether you have a good experience or not. It’s entirely possible for you to fly out of OKC and not have a single interaction during your entire iteneray with someone who is a United employee.
    Got it - Thanks.

  21. #46

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    United has some of the worst business practices and ethics in the country. The fact that their reward system is better only alludes to that statement. Sarcastically speaking, it says “hey, we’re slime but here’s a coupon to make you feel Justified for using a company that crushes the labor force, enjoy the miles!” I was most disgusted last year after they killed a passengers dog by forcing him, under threat of arrest, to place it in the overhead bin where it suffocated. And that ordeal where they urned performance based bonuses into a lottery for a cash, cars, and a vacation...on a F’ing plane!

  22. #47

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    OKC along with many other stations across the country were staffed and operated by United itself. United employees. In 2014 they outsourced 12 cities to contract vendors who have no affiliation to United. In March 2015 OKC joined a list that included 28 other cities that were also contracted out to the lowest bidder. Approximately 5,000 middle class jobswere displaced by vendors paying food stamp wages. Some people took an enhanced severance, others went on furlough, and some of us accepted transfers to other stations to keep our jobs.

    The people working the ticket counter and loading your bags in OKC and many other cities across the country do not work for United, have no loyalty to United, and ultimately have no vested interest in whether you have a good experience or not. It’s entirely possible for you to fly out of OKC and not have a single interaction during your entire iteneray with someone who is a United employee.
    And this canít be undone/reversed?

  23. #48

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    ^^^ contracts usually come with, well contracts. A set number of years. And how does a company undo firing people, mugging people off overbooked flights, killing pets, and being a horror of customer service?

  24. #49

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Brian, thanks for sharing this. Can you also share some data for each airline's share of passengers, departures & gates in OKC?

  25. #50

    Default Re: 2019 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by brianinok View Post
    I just did a little math. AA had 22.8% market share in December, which equates to 989k passengers for a year (I'm sure I could have added up all their passengers for the year but I didn't take the time).
    Brian, thanks for sharing this. Can you also share some data for each airline's share of passengers, departures & gates in OKC?

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