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  1. #101

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Still trying to figure out where the GPS comes in to license plates.

    I'm waiting to hear about government chip implants next.

    This reads like an Art Bell special.

    I know people routinely invest in hundreds or thousands of dollars in hardware, surveillance, and building an Oceans 11 level team/squad to pull off smash and grabs at houses. It's why I keep my Picasso at a museum.

    At least some of the concerns/examples Brian provided makes sense., although some of them predate this type of technology. And it seems like a lot of these issues stem from lack of access control on who or what can get information.

  2. #102

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by d-usa View Post
    Why go through the tag scanning companies, when you carry a cellphone with you 24/7?
    Use a cell phone that tracks your movements and more, have an account on Iinkedin which shows where you work, own a home and there are suddenly tax records and mortgage records freely and easily available online, register to vote and we can even find out where your precinct is, and when you last voted, tag yourself on facebook from Hawaii and let everyone know your house is empty and you're out of town, apply for credit and share your employment information, have a bank account, and a million other ways you can be tracked, monitored, or whatever, and no one things twice about it. But have scanners which check your license plate to see if you have insurance, and suddenly you're in the middle of a heist movie.

    I know that my home is more likely to be broken into as an attack of opportunity than anything else. It's not naivete to be rational about your concerns though. Same reason I don't carry a lead umbrella to protect me from meteors and falling turtles. Possibly doesn't equate probable.

  3. #103

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Use a cell phone that tracks your movements and more, have an account on Iinkedin which shows where you work, own a home and there are suddenly tax records and mortgage records freely and easily available online, register to vote and we can even find out where your precinct is, and when you last voted, tag yourself on facebook from Hawaii and let everyone know your house is empty and you're out of town, apply for credit and share your employment information, have a bank account, and a million other ways you can be tracked, monitored, or whatever, and no one things twice about it. But have scanners which check your license plate to see if you have insurance, and suddenly you're in the middle of a heist movie.

    I know that my home is more likely to be broken into as an attack of opportunity than anything else. It's not naivete to be rational about your concerns though. Same reason I don't carry a lead umbrella to protect me from meteors and falling turtles. Possibly doesn't equate probable.
    The problem with the "technology can be used for evil" discussion is twofold. First of all, of course, it's been done to death. Secondly, can doesn't mean will. 'Can' an abusive husband abuse this system, find his ex/estranged and do something bad? Yup. Can he do it without this system? Yup. Are there laws in place to handle this abuse? Yup. All boils down to are we willing to finally enforce the laws we have. But there's absolutely nothing new here.

  4. Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    ... And it seems like a lot of these issues stem from lack of access control on who or what can get information.
    Since the information is gathered by private companies on public streets, then there is very little you can do at the moment to control access to the information. The companies who have this data police themselves. However, when the bar is set at simply letting any PI, bondsman, repo-man etc. access the data - then in reality, there are no limitations.

    I think some of you are content to give away every right you have unless or until it directly impacts you.

  5. Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by stile99 View Post
    The problem with the "technology can be used for evil" discussion is twofold. First of all, of course, it's been done to death. Secondly, can doesn't mean will. 'Can' an abusive husband abuse this system, find his ex/estranged and do something bad? Yup. Can he do it without this system? Yup. Are there laws in place to handle this abuse? Yup. All boils down to are we willing to finally enforce the laws we have. But there's absolutely nothing new here.

    Exactly what law would you enforce in the situation of an abusive husband or pimp? If it's legal to get the information (which it is) then your solution seems to be to simply react after they've then used that information to commit a criminal act - like assault or murder. I'd think the better solution would be to create laws now that forbid how this technology or databases can be accessed and used going forward. I'm perfectly willing to give up my right as a PI to access this data if the broader good is being served. Exactly why I didn't care when they took away a PI's (and even a spouse's) ability to place a GPS on a vehicle.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by BBatesokc View Post
    Exactly what law would you enforce in the situation of an abusive husband or pimp? If it's legal to get the information (which it is) then your solution seems to be to simply react after they've then used that information to commit a criminal act - like assault or murder. I'd think the better solution would be to create laws now that forbid how this technology or databases can be accessed and used going forward. I'm perfectly willing to give up my right as a PI to access this data if the broader good is being served. Exactly why I didn't care when they took away a PI's (and even a spouse's) ability to place a GPS on a vehicle.
    I'm rather certain you are aware of how protective orders work, so I see little need to go into detail. Unfortunately, as you are also aware, reactive is simply how the law works. The violator of a protective order (regardless of how he/she obtains any information used to commit the violation) will not be punished until after the violation occurs. Doesn't matter if they access a database or follow the person around, either physically or online.

    I honestly can't tell which pony you're following. The information shouldn't be collected, or access to the information should be limited? Because I think almost anyone would agree with the latter, With obvious laws to prevent the abuse you mentioned above. Laws that are actually enforced.

  7. #107

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    It’s just surveillance man

    https://youtu.be/g4gqGLAXQBA

  8. #108

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Keep letting them get away with stuff like this the next thing you know they will have a camera inside your house watching and listening. They keep chipping away at your privacy / freedom and if there's no push back they will keep going. Soon it will be a fully fledged police state. Yes that's extreme but that is the direction things are going.

  9. #109

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCRT View Post
    Keep letting them get away with stuff like this the next thing you know they will have a camera inside your house watching and listening. They keep chipping away at your privacy / freedom and if there's no push back they will keep going. Soon it will be a fully fledged police state. Yes that's extreme but that is the direction things are going.
    Why, that's crazy talk! You might as well say that people would even WELCOME it, in fact...PAY for it!

    https://portal.facebook.com/

    (All kidding aside, you really have to be stupid to give Facebook of all companies this power.)

  10. #110

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Same should be said about all the wireless security and surveillance systems that are connected to your home or business networks and smart phones, where you can be hacked into and be watched. The latest wave of “smart” appliances as well. Who the heck needs a refrigerator or oven that connects to the internet?. Our cars too... being connected is the hot thing. And being tracked is nothing new. Since The mid 90’s, anyone who has owned a GM vehicle equipped with Onstar has had their movements stored in a database since they drove off the lot. Rental car companies have tracked their customer movements for years as well. That’s probably a slim sample, but it’s a safe bet your movements have already been recoreded long before the tag readers came on board.

  11. #111

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    You don’t even need Alexa & Co, your phone is already listening.

  12. #112

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by d-usa View Post
    You don’t even need Alexa & Co, your phone is already listening.
    It's why I throw out a verbal "God Bless the NSA" every now and then, so my phone can pick it up.

  13. #113

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    At a friend's house when they step out of the room: "Alexa, what is the best way to dissolve a freshly-dismembered body?"

  14. #114

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    It's why I throw out a verbal "God Bless the NSA" every now and then, so my phone can pick it up.
    that reminds me of one of my favorite cold war jokes...

    while taking an electronics technician certification exam in the city, a man is put up in a hotel room with three other workers. as it's getting late the three workers are getting drunk and loud and telling political jokes. needing sleep, the man asks them keep it down but they ignore him.

    so the man hatches a plan... he goes downstairs to the front desk and orders a cup of tea to be delivered 30 minutes later. he then goes back upstairs and waits several minutes and then speaks into the ashtray, "comrade colonel, please send up a cup of tea." the three others laugh, but moments later they're white as a ghost as soon as the tea arrives. without saying a word, they each go to sleep.

    the next morning, the man awakens to an empty room. as he's checking out, he asks the front desk, "what happened to the three workers that i was sharing the room with?" the person at the front desk replies, "oh, they were all arrested in the middle of the night for dissent." puzzled, the man asks, "why wasn't i taken, too?" the other answers, "comrade colonel likes your sense of humor."

  15. #115

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Saw one of these parked on 235n just at bend north of 50th. But drivers slowed down like a wreck (lookieloos) and backed traffic up to 36th. Should not be there at rush hour.

  16. Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by rezman View Post
    Same should be said about all the wireless security and surveillance systems that are connected to your home or business networks and smart phones, where you can be hacked into and be watched. The latest wave of “smart” appliances as well. Who the heck needs a refrigerator or oven that connects to the internet?. Our cars too... being connected is the hot thing. And being tracked is nothing new. Since The mid 90’s, anyone who has owned a GM vehicle equipped with Onstar has had their movements stored in a database since they drove off the lot. Rental car companies have tracked their customer movements for years as well. That’s probably a slim sample, but it’s a safe bet your movements have already been recoreded long before the tag readers came on board.
    And I defy you to be able to pick up the phone and within 10 minutes get the results on a 3rd party of the alleged 'tracking' you talk about above.

    With tag readers you literally can place a phone call and get all that info on someone else within seconds. Big difference between that and some hypothetical, "well, someone COULD potentially hack your this or that." Heck, lets just stop requiring search warrants all together then - I mean, the info is out there anyway, right?

  17. #117

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by BBatesokc View Post
    With tag readers you literally can place a phone call and get all that info on someone else within seconds.
    If you have the access to make that phone call, is a tag reader required, or just knowing the tag number at all (so seeing it yourself)?

  18. #118

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?


  19. Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    If you have the access to make that phone call, is a tag reader required, or just knowing the tag number at all (so seeing it yourself)?
    The process is simply; Log into the database, enter a tag number and the state it was issued by. Within seconds a list of every instance that tag has been visually recorded is shown to you. The list contains the image recorded (for visual verification), the date, time and even shows the location on a map. in areas where these scanners are common, a single tag inquiry can produce thousands of sightings and literally map a person's movements.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Well, now that the horses have left, this would be as good a time as any to ponder closing the barn door.

    https://kfor.com/2019/02/28/bill-aim...plate-readers/

  21. #121

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by stile99 View Post
    Well, now that the horses have left, this would be as good a time as any to ponder closing the barn door.

    https://kfor.com/2019/02/28/bill-aim...plate-readers/
    That has nothing to do with the previous posts. Corp Commision readers are for trucks with commercial plates regulating the cargo v. the previous posts that were about a private company and local da's going after the non insured. Govt plate readers is what the article is about, not private companies.

  22. #122

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    That has nothing to do with the previous posts. Corp Commision readers are for trucks with commercial plates regulating the cargo v. the previous posts that were about a private company and local da's going after the non insured. Govt plate readers is what the article is about, not private companies.
    I think the article makes that quite clear, it specifically speaks of vehicles entering the state.

    However, you are wrong in saying it has nothing to do with previous posts. The reason I chose to put the link here is the same reason I linked the article about your cell phone provider selling you out. We've been discussing privacy. If I'm wrong, I don't understand the references to Alexa, the cold war, and smart homes.

  23. #123

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    It's about time Oklahoma figured this out. After July, you keep your tags instead of them going with your car when you sell it.

    https://kfor.com/2019/04/03/license-...tags-with-you/

  24. #124

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    How is it legal for the surveillance vehicles to be parked on the side of the highway during rush hour? It seems dangerous and shouldn't be allowed.

  25. #125

    Default Re: Surveillance Vehicles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    It's about time Oklahoma figured this out. After July, you keep your tags instead of them going with your car when you sell it.

    https://kfor.com/2019/04/03/license-...tags-with-you/
    I'll be interested in seeing how smoothly this transition goes. I tend to buy and sell cars several times a year, and I'm happy for this change, although I'm not quite clear on some aspects of it yet.

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