You could integrate the merchandise; sell both Thunder & ECHL (say Blazers) merchandise. The shops could use the same employees.
You don't have this problem with the food concessions inside the arena, IIRC.
You could integrate the merchandise; sell both Thunder & ECHL (say Blazers) merchandise. The shops could use the same employees.
You don't have this problem with the food concessions inside the arena, IIRC.
They would prob. put the basketball court down over the ice with a barrier in between. Slick spots could occur from moisture below. Pretty sure I remember this happening in other arenas before. One slick spot taking out Adams would be a deal breaker.
I'm sure they do and I think they should. The Thunder have done more to change the international perception of Oklahoma City than any other effort. The NBA makes OKC a Big League City, pure and simple. An ECHL Team puts us with Scranton/Wilkes-Barre as a place that will sell 4,000 seats at $10 per. Great entertainment, but let's find them a different place to play.
Nm
because use of a facility and extra 35 times a year is always a bad idea. this is why cities don't re-coup money on the stadiums they build... one event at an arena does not bring down the level of the other events. or are you saying San Antonio isn't a Big League City because the Spurs share and arena with the AHL Rampage?
this literally makes no sense... You are saying "Hey, i would rather have a stadium sit empty and unused most of the week, rather than let it say that entertainment in our city is sub-par"... but wouldn't having no event bring down that opinion even more than it being used for literally anything?
All the more reason to consider what is wanted in an arena at the fairgrounds. There should be an alternative arena for sports events tha t might interfere with the Thunder
Yes!!! The Baron's weren't successful because the Blazers supporters still had a bad taste in their mouths from a successful Blazers vanishing overnight, the Barons really weren't promoted as good, and tickets went up about $5 across the board.
ECHL in OKC would survive with the proper management. Like him or not, Lund was a genius with the Blazers, and knew how to keep interest and promote them. Let's build that arena at the state fair to handle a hockey team. Blazers played several games in the existing arena there and it worked.
as an avid blazers fan, and a barons season ticket holder for every season, i can say yes the bad taste was a large part of the problem... and the ticket price increase for most blazers fans went up way more than $5... a vast majority of those amazing blazers crowds never ever paid for tickets... i went to some 50 blazers games their last few years, and literally tired to buy tickets, and was just handed free tickets at the box office.
yes the Barons were horribly managed, and never really stood a chance... but that was the fault of many things... Prodigal and the City not carrying about making any improvements to an aging Cox Center Arena until the ceiling collapsed. (note, knowing the city's long term plan to demo the site, makes sense to not make renovations). So the Barons were never going to be successful.
On February 9, 2010, the American Hockey League Board of Governors approved of the relocation of the Oilers' inactive AHL franchise to Oklahoma City, after a five-year dormancy.[1]
After the team's inaugural season in 2010–11, the Barons finished in the bottom five in the league for average attendance, including worst in the league in 2012–13.[8] On December 18, 2014, the Oilers and Barons announced that the Barons would cease operations after the current season citing continued financial losses stemming from poor attendance.[9]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_Barons
Imo Hockey is not long term stable. Thunder don’t want any fans to bleed off either. Thunder have been blessed with competitive teams but in future once Russ is done they liklely take a hit. If hockey were here in down Thunder years it could bleed some fans.
Why risk it when hockey is the most unstable sport around. Teams are always on the move too.
Blazers used to draw big crowds but that was our big game in town then. The 2010 itteration competed with Thunder and ended up with poor fan showings and moved on. Its too unstable to invest any tax dollars in, much rather be thinking ahead to preserve Thunder. We need a future Thunder “Peake” plan while the team is still doing good. If we need to replace in 2030-35 timelone its not too early to think ahead.
Ironic how the original cost bid oversight (or undersight lol) meant it was built for $85m! The mods/upgrades cost more!
Streetcar cost more than original Peake did (Ford Center then).
Let Tulsa have hockey.
the blazers drew big crowds because it was free entertainment... hell i remember walking up to the box office to try and purchase tickets, and they wouldn't let me, cause they had free ones to give away
and what is the risk... i still don't understand how having hockey in the same arena affects the thunder in absolutely any way... does having WWE wrestling events affect the thunder? do concerts? Monster Truck? why do we let any events take place during the NBA season then????
i'm literally at a loss for how this affects the thunder in anyways, except maybe make the court temperature slightly cooler ( a survey a few years ago showed that basketball courts over ice had an average temp of 63 degrees, rather than 72... but that was actual temp of the court itself
And thanks to those that dug up the videos above. Good memories of the Tulsa and Wichita rivalries.
I don't think the Thunder take a hit when Russ leaves. That is part of the game, players get older and younger ones take over. They will find a star when Russ starts showing age. People are too crazy about the Thunder to leave it. Look at the waiting list for season tickets! Also, there are many people that currently don't follow the Thunder simply because they don't care for basketball. Hockey is just another entertainment option that definitely could drum up a decent following in the city. It just has to have smart leadership.
When Thunder go a few years in tank mode fans will not buy as many tickets. It happens.
Hockey has failed here over the decades. Fans don’t support it fanatically enough over years to sell enough seats to sustain.
I would rather continue to focus on the one pro sport we have and not muddy waters with hickey.
I would be in support of soccer venue that can be used for other events. And fairgrounds is perfect location too. Close enough to downtown. Central to metro. Easy access with major Interstates. Could also hold HS playoffs/finals here. Host club soccer tourneys.
Hockey has been tried and failed here why chase it again? I had fun going to Blazer games but the hockey ship has sailed imo
break even point of ECHL over AHL is much lower... this is due to the contracts being much much less. so enough seats to sustain is also drastically reduced as well. if people knew about hockey and it wasn't in a building that most people don't know still holds events as they just use it to walk through when its cold... then it could easily in the Peake draw enough to keep it just above break even, and even bring in additional revenue to the city for 35 nights a year, rather than just have the arena sit empty
Hockey continues to grow as a sport in Oklahoma City, OKC has very active youth hockey, college hockey and adult hockey leagues as well as UCO and OU having teams. Will it grow enough to the point we could support another team...time will tell.
My son is on a travel team and we play at various hockey venues across the the KS/MO/AR/TX area. IMO what seems to work is a facility of approximately 6000-8000 seats instead of trying to fill something like the Cox Center (see http://silversteineyecentersarena.com/about/welcome/ ) The Barons averaged 3500-4000 per game while the Blazers averaged 8000-10000 per game. They had different theories on ticket sales where blazers gave away more free tickets.
One problem imo is OKC's facilities are too big or are too small (Blazers Ice Center/Artic Ice) The arena at the state fair (8500 seats) could work though but the focus there seems to be equine focused. OKC still has the Junior Blazers playing in the United Hockey Union (UHU) junior Western States Hockey League. Not sure of average attendance but they set a record in 2014 of 7100 people when they played at the Cox Center. They were at Blazers Ice Center but are moving to Artic this year.
Blazers never competed with Thunder and the then “new” team did. Fan attendance went down when Thunder came.
More kids play soccer than hockey. My opinion is to chase soccer/multi use stadium before we chase hockey. Chasing both at once is a losing propostion in my opinion. Soccer is further along and growing faster.
I agree that more people play soccer than hockey but that doesn't seem to translate to people attending games. Over the last two seasons....OKC Energy (soccer) averaged 4000-4200 attendance per game. Slightly more than the Barons and significantly less than the Blazers. Having hockey in a facility that easily is used for other options seems smarter than soccer stadium that doesn't translate to other uses as easily.
My only point though really is that Hockey is not dead in OKC and can still thrive if right model is set up. I do not think that ship has sailed.
First - I'm 100% in favor of an ECHL team playing in the new arena at State Fair Park.
My recollection is that 25-30 years ago, when OKC was dead city, civic leadership decided to support downtown entertainment by renting the myriad to the CBA team OKC Cavalry for $1000 per game. Ray Miron and Brad Lund came in with the CHL concept and asked for the same deal for the Blazers. Which they got. This began the minor league sports war that the Blazers won in part because they had deeper pockets. When the Ford Center got built (as part of MAPS) the Blazers had the leverage to maintain a low cost rental agreement because they were the only game in town. This allowed them to sell tickets for $10 and less. Even thousands free to each game the last few years. The concessions for over 10,000 people helped make it profitable.
But, I think that is the only model that made hockey profitable in OKC and the arrival of the Thunder made it unfair to operate the arena in that fashion. I think the approach of The Thunder is that they pay a lot of money, they make a lot of money for the city, and they want other tenants to abide by the same rules.
When you look at the model for the ECHL in Tulsa (no major league sports), it's not that different from OKC.
Facilities
Tulsa: Population (Urban 401,800, MSA 990,706)
BOK Center, opened 2008, capacity 17,096 ice hockey, construction cost 2008 $196 million
ONEOK Field, opened 2010, capacity 7,833, construction cost 2010 $39.2 million/$45 million in 2018 dollars
Stadiums:
University of Tulsa Chapman Stadium, Capacity 30,000
Hunter-Dwelley Stadium, Jenks, Capacity 10,000
Union Tuttle Stadium, Tulsa, Capacity 11,000
Oklahoma City: Population (Urban 643,648, MSA 1,383,737)
Chesapeake Energy Arena, opened 2002, capacity 15,152 ice hockey, construction cost 2002 $89.2 million 2010 upgrades $90 million.Total construction $179.2 million & $8,865,000 from 2017 GOBonds for repairs & upgrades.Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark, capacity 10,000 construction cost 1998 $34 million/$52.3 million in 2018 dollars
Stadiums:
Taft Stadium (OKCPS), Capacity, 7,500
University of Oklahoma Gaylord Family Oklahoma Memorial Stadium, Capacity 86,112
University of Central Oklahoma Wantland Stadium: Capacity 10,000
Sports franchises minor & major:
Tulsa: USL AAA soccer, TL AA baseball, ECHL AA hockey,
Oklahoma City: NBA basketball, NBA G-League basketball, USL AAA soccer, PCL AAA baseball...
Oklahoma City is very capable of supporting ECHL AA hockey. We have 1 million to support one major league sport with 390,000 more residents to support minor league hockey, baseball & soccer.
Although ice hockey failed on the AAA level AHL Barons, it probably had more to do with the timing of the franchise's re-entry into our market and ownership. ECHL will have established rivalries in Tulsa & Wichita.
We should be ready following 2020 where our estimated populations will be: Urban 650,000 & MSA will be 1,400,000.
Oklahoma City Blazers vs. Tulsa Oilers
Highlights from the Oklahoma City Blazers vs. Tulsa Oilers hockey game at the Ford Center in Oklahoma City on January 10, 2003.
16,873 Watch Blazers defeat Oilers at the Ford Center
Oilers attendance increasing : https://www.tulsaworld.com/archives/...758ee0504.htmlHowever, Tulsa's Jan. 10 game at Oklahoma City drew a CHL-record 16,873.
Largest crowd to watch a hockey game in the Central Hockey League and in Oklahoma City was 16,929 at the Ford Center; Blazers lost to the Tulsa Oilers 6-2.
Tulsa tops Blazers: https://newsok.com/article/1889220/tulsa-tops-blazers
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