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  1. #151

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    Your spin fails to cover up the fact that you just don't know what you are talking about. Very presidential. Got any tweets to throw out?
    100th “attack the person not the data” post. Dem strategy 101. Look over the last 3 pages and will see this is the most common reply by leftists.

  2. #152

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by OKC Guy View Post
    100th “attack the person not the data” post. Dem strategy 101. Look over the last 3 pages and will see this is the most common reply by leftists.
    You just can't quit lying can you. Your data on needing a 60 vote majority for budget reconcilliation was attacked as crap and your so called data on the 'pubs not having a majority were attacked. Math is not your only failure, so is reading comprehension. Same tactic as individual one. When facts challenge your dogma you take it as a personal attack. Sad.

  3. #153

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by Uptowner View Post
    I just arrived, but wow, what a thread...so you’re basing your theory off a completely green scene and cgi movie about something that was historically inaccurate to begin with? Just, wow.
    Apparently you arent familiar with the concept of an example. Just wow.....

  4. #154

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by OKC Guy View Post
    100th “attack the person not the data” post. Dem strategy 101. Look over the last 3 pages and will see this is the most common reply by leftists.
    your sites are fake, racist, bigoted data. No need to attack, it's crap, all of it.

  5. #155

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    You just can't quit lying can you. Your data on needing a 60 vote majority for budget reconcilliation was attacked as crap and your so called data on the 'pubs not having a majority were attacked. Math is not your only failure, so is reading comprehension. Same tactic as individual one. When facts challenge your dogma you take it as a personal attack. Sad.
    You might want to brush up on your rules and consider being a little more civil - especially when you are wrong. Supplemental budgetary items (and if funds are requested and provided for the Trump wall in the typical fashion would be a supplemental appropriation) pass with a simple majority but are subject to fillibuster. Dems would doubtlessly fillibuster which would require 60 votes to pass. Therefore, 60 votes to pass.

  6. #156

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Under the rules for reconciliation a filibuster exemption applies as long as the bill contains only that subject matter that has direct budgetary impact.
    Reagans COBRA act dealing with insurance coverage was done this way. I'm good on the rules.

  7. #157

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    I dont believe this falls under a budget reconcilliation bill because Trump is tying it to the funding of his wall which makes it a supplemental appropriation bill, subject to fillibuster and realistically will require 60 votes.

    lf you're trying to discuss a bill to get people back to work with no wall consideration, it would beca reconcilliation bill and subject to a simple majority but thats not on the table right now.

    You have budgetary reconcilliation. You have annual appropriations both of which require the simple majority.

    The wall falls outside both of these and is a supplemental appropriation so will, in this case, require 60 unless there is some sort of bipartisan agreement. l dont see this happening unless Rs mutiny and pass a veto proof bill

  8. #158

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by Swake View Post
    your sites are fake, racist, bigoted data. No need to attack, it's crap, all of it.
    Here's a 2016 OBAMA State Dept report stating how drug and human trafficking among other things related to Mexico were a PRIMARY CONCERN.

    BUREAU OF INTERNATIONAL NARCOTICS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT AFFAIRS
    2016 International Narcotics Control Strategy Report (INCSR)
    Report
    Mexico remains a major transit country for cocaine and heroin and source country for heroin, marijuana, and methamphetamine destined for the United States. Proceeds of the illicit drug trade leaving the United States are the principal source of funds laundered through the Mexican financial system. Other significant sources of laundered funds include corruption, tax-evasion, influence peddling, kidnapping, extortion, intellectual property rights violations, human trafficking, and trafficking in firearms. Sophisticated and well-organized drug trafficking organizations based in Mexico take advantage of the extensive U.S.-Mexico border, the large flow of legitimate remittances, Mexico’s proximity to Central American countries, and the high volume of legal commerce, to conceal illicit financial transfers to Mexico. The smuggling of bulk U.S. currency into Mexico and the repatriation of the funds into the United States via couriers or armored vehicles remain commonly employed money laundering techniques. Additionally, the proceeds of Mexican drug trafficking organizations are laundered using variations of trade-based methods, particularly after Mexico placed restrictions in 2010 on amounts of U.S. dollar deposits. For example, checks and wires from so-called “funnel accounts” are used by Mexico-based money “brokers” to acquire goods, which are exchanged for pesos in Mexico, or to sell dollars to Mexican businesses. The combination in Mexico of a sophisticated financial sector and a large cash-based informal sector complicates money laundering countermeasures. According to Global Financial Integrity, Mexico had more than $77 billion in illicit financial outflows in 2013 due primarily to abusive trade misinvoicing.

    Dispute this one its from Obamas State Dept

    https://2009-2017.state.gov/j/inl/rl...ol2/253420.htm

  9. #159

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Nobody is disputing there is a problem with drugs coming over the border, but a zoo fence will fix nothing. Won't even slow it down.

  10. #160

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    or why does Obama feel the need for a 10 foot security wall at his home with elevated guardhouse, metal barricades and his entire block off limits to all but local residents? lf a wall works for him, why is there an opinion out there that hoardes of thousands will be able to cross a 30 foot wall? Oh, its to keep uninvited people away.
    Indeed, every time a policy decision is made one should ask, "What would Obama do?".
    Don't hassle me, I'm local.

  11. #161

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by OKC Guy View Post
    Here's a 2016 OBAMA State Dept report stating how drug and human trafficking among other things related to Mexico were a PRIMARY CONCERN.

    BUREAU OF INTERNATIONAL NARCOTICS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT AFFAIRS
    2016 International Narcotics Control Strategy Report (INCSR)
    Report
    Mexico remains a major transit country for cocaine and heroin and source country for heroin, marijuana, and methamphetamine destined for the United States. Proceeds of the illicit drug trade leaving the United States are the principal source of funds laundered through the Mexican financial system. Other significant sources of laundered funds include corruption, tax-evasion, influence peddling, kidnapping, extortion, intellectual property rights violations, human trafficking, and trafficking in firearms. Sophisticated and well-organized drug trafficking organizations based in Mexico take advantage of the extensive U.S.-Mexico border, the large flow of legitimate remittances, Mexico’s proximity to Central American countries, and the high volume of legal commerce, to conceal illicit financial transfers to Mexico. The smuggling of bulk U.S. currency into Mexico and the repatriation of the funds into the United States via couriers or armored vehicles remain commonly employed money laundering techniques. Additionally, the proceeds of Mexican drug trafficking organizations are laundered using variations of trade-based methods, particularly after Mexico placed restrictions in 2010 on amounts of U.S. dollar deposits. For example, checks and wires from so-called “funnel accounts” are used by Mexico-based money “brokers” to acquire goods, which are exchanged for pesos in Mexico, or to sell dollars to Mexican businesses. The combination in Mexico of a sophisticated financial sector and a large cash-based informal sector complicates money laundering countermeasures. According to Global Financial Integrity, Mexico had more than $77 billion in illicit financial outflows in 2013 due primarily to abusive trade misinvoicing.

    Dispute this one its from Obamas State Dept

    https://2009-2017.state.gov/j/inl/rl...ol2/253420.htm
    Nearly all the drugs coming from Mexico, better than 90%, come through legal ports of entry. But Trump's border plan spends more than 90% of the money on a wall instead of at points of entry. Why? How does that make sense?

  12. #162

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    or why does Obama feel the need for a 10 foot security wall at his home with elevated guardhouse, metal barricades and his entire block off limits to all but local residents? lf a wall works for him, why is there an opinion out there that hoardes of thousands will be able to cross a 30 foot wall? Oh, its to keep uninvited people away.
    You know this is another set of lies of course.

    First off, NO ONE said that walls are not appropriate in some locations. Trump tweeted a photo of a wall going up yesterday on the border. Took credit for it too and said past presidents refused to put up walls. Which is a lie and funny because the wall in the photo was authorized and paid for in the 2009 Congress, which was a unified Democratic Congress under Obama.

    Second, it's an often told Fox News lie that Obama has built 10 foot "wall" around his house. It's not 10' tall and it' not a wall, it's a wrought iron fence.


  13. #163

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by OKC Guy View Post
    I don’t count nevertrumpers like McCain and others like him.
    yep. was waiting for a comment like this that says that "while i keep saying refute the facts in all of my posts, i'm going to ignore the facts when convenient for my argument."

    you can't have it both ways...

  14. #164

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    Under the rules for reconciliation a filibuster exemption applies as long as the bill contains only that subject matter that has direct budgetary impact.
    Reagans COBRA act dealing with insurance coverage was done this way. I'm good on the rules.
    THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! finally someone else at the table who actually reads and knows these things... but sadly jersey Boss... they won't listen. trust me

  15. #165

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    I dont believe this falls under a budget reconcilliation bill because Trump is tying it to the funding of his wall which makes it a supplemental appropriation bill, subject to fillibuster and realistically will require 60 votes.

    lf you're trying to discuss a bill to get people back to work with no wall consideration, it would beca reconcilliation bill and subject to a simple majority but thats not on the table right now.

    You have budgetary reconcilliation. You have annual appropriations both of which require the simple majority.

    The wall falls outside both of these and is a supplemental appropriation so will, in this case, require 60 unless there is some sort of bipartisan agreement. l dont see this happening unless Rs mutiny and pass a veto proof bill
    but back to the point... does it really matter... even if it were something that the Dems wouldn't have used a filibuster on... at the time the Republicans had 52 seats, they wouldn't have been able to get 51 votes on it. that is why it wasn't tried for those two years.... and then when it was evident that they were going to lose the house the strategy of the white house changed to what it is now. this thing has ever had even a simple majority support in the senate and is now holding up the whole government.

    all for something that only deals with a less than majority issue of our immigration problem, and won't stop the drug problem.... we now have on record from those testifying at the trial of El Chapo, that most of their drugs were smuggled on boats, trains, trucks and cars that come to legal ports of entry, if they didn't use a tunnel.

  16. #166
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    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by Swake View Post
    Nearly all the drugs coming from Mexico, better than 90%, come through legal ports of entry. But Trump's border plan spends more than 90% of the money on a wall instead of at points of entry. Why? How does that make sense?
    A wall stretching as far as the eye can see serves much better for an impression that something monumental is being done about illegal immigration than any port of entry could.

  17. #167

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    In actuality you and individual 1are the ones being disingenuous with the "we need 60 votes in the Senate". The budget reconciliation process needs only 51 votes in the Senate. So tell us again why the radical righties did not pass this earlier?
    Because they reconciliation process should only be used as a last ditch effort, not as plan A in how to shove your agenda down the throats of the opposition party.

  18. #168

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    Check again on the number of Senate 'pubs post 2016 election friend. You will learn they had a majority. FYI, 52 is a majority in a 100 member body. So yeah they did not have 51, they had 52. Just stop with the misinformation. Fail, indeed. Fail math?
    Even so, it's not good policy. Yes possible (but very unlikely to work in this particular case), just like "emergency" for funding and all, but really a bad idea, and a very convoluted and unethical way to do it.

    ****, what am I talking about ethics for. Sorry guys. Wrong forum.

  19. #169

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by sacolton View Post
    Nobody is disputing there is a problem with drugs coming over the border, but a zoo fence will fix nothing. Won't even slow it down.
    Proof?

  20. #170

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by Swake View Post
    Nearly all the drugs coming from Mexico, better than 90%, come through legal ports of entry. But Trump's border plan spends more than 90% of the money on a wall instead of at points of entry. Why? How does that make sense?
    90% of what money?

  21. #171

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by jedicurt View Post
    but back to the point... does it really matter... even if it were something that the Dems wouldn't have used a filibuster on... at the time the Republicans had 52 seats, they wouldn't have been able to get 51 votes on it. that is why it wasn't tried for those two years.... and then when it was evident that they were going to lose the house the strategy of the white house changed to what it is now. this thing has ever had even a simple majority support in the senate and is now holding up the whole government.

    all for something that only deals with a less than majority issue of our immigration problem, and won't stop the drug problem.... we now have on record from those testifying at the trial of El Chapo, that most of their drugs were smuggled on boats, trains, trucks and cars that come to legal ports of entry, if they didn't use a tunnel.
    I would just like to add that be careful with what statistics you use. Often times we only record what we are aware of. So essentially these numbers are likely skewed because we really don't know about all drug trafficking. Yes we estimate. I get it. I am just saying, maybe take pause for just a second and consider what the numbers are actually trying to measure.

  22. #172

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Interesting

    John Cardillo
    John Cardillo
    @johncardillo
    I always wonder how much drug cartel money has secretly funneled to Dem campaign coffers via front groups that purport to be “pro-immigration,” but are really just open borders lobbyists.

    Now that would make for a very interesting DOJ or even Special Counsel investigation.

  23. #173

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Because they reconciliation process should only be used as a last ditch effort, not as plan A in how to shove your agenda down the throats of the opposition party.
    Let us not forget. House under Ryan had approved a CR with 1.6 B in funding for border security. The Senate under McConnell unanimously approved. The administration also approved. Individual 1 double crossed the Congress when Limbaugh, Coulter, and other radio radical righties squealed and called individual 1 weak and other deragatory names. Why should the HoR engage in negotiations with an individual who buckles to media personalities?
    Speaker Pelosi would be nuts to agree to a plan subject to media veto.

  24. #174

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Do you and Eric share the same tinfoil hat and jug of koolaide?




    Quote Originally Posted by OKC Guy View Post
    Interesting

    John Cardillo
    John Cardillo
    @johncardillo
    I always wonder how much drug cartel money has secretly funneled to Dem campaign coffers via front groups that purport to be “pro-immigration,” but are really just open borders lobbyists.

    Now that would make for a very interesting DOJ or even Special Counsel investigation.

  25. #175

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Regardless the party there is some great info in here on fed worker waste and how we can be leaner afterwards. Its aright leaning slant so know that going in, but does not negate some facts about Gov worker waste:

    I’m A Senior Trump Official, And I Hope A Long Shutdown Smokes Out The Resistance

    January 14th, 2019
    Welcome
    The Daily Caller is taking the rare step of publishing this anonymous op-ed at the request of the author, a senior official in the Trump administration whose identity is known to us and whose career would be jeopardized by its disclosure. We believe publishing this essay anonymously is the only way to deliver an important perspective to our readers. We invite you to submit a question about the essay or our vetting process here.

    As one of the senior officials working without a paycheck, a few words of advice for the president’s next move at shuttered government agencies: lock the doors, sell the furniture, and cut them down.

    Federal employees are starting to feel the strain of the shutdown. I am one of them. But for the sake of our nation, I hope it lasts a very long time, till the government is changed, and can never return to its previous form.

    The lapse in appropriations is more than a battle over a wall. It is an opportunity to strip wasteful government agencies for good.

    On an average day roughly 15 percent of the employees around me are exceptional patriots serving their country. I wish I could give competitive salaries to them, and no one else. But 80 percent feel no pressure to produce results. If they don’t feel like doing what they are told, they don’t.

    Why would they? We can’t fire them. They avoid attention, plan their weekend, schedule vacation, their second job, their next position, some do this in the same position for more than a decade. (RELATED: EPA Employees Who Watched Porn, Harassed Women And Got Promoted)

    They do nothing that warrants punishment and nothing of external value. That is their workday: errands for the sake of errands; administering, refining, following and collaborating on process. “Process is your friend” is what delusional civil servants tell themselves. Even senior officials must gain approval from every rank across their department, other agencies and work units for basic administrative chores.

    Process is what we serve, process keeps us safe, process is our core value. It takes a lot of people to maintain the process. Process provides jobs. In fact, there are process experts and certified process managers who protect the process. Then there are the 5 percent with moxy (career managers). At any given time they can change, clarify or add to the process — even to distort or block policy counsel for the president.

    Saboteurs peddling opinion as research, tasking their staff on pet projects or pitching wasteful grants to their friends. Most of my career colleagues actively work against the president’s agenda. This means I typically spend about 15 percent of my time on the president’s agenda and 85 percent of my time trying to stop sabotage, and we have no power to get rid of them. Until the shutdown.

    Due to the lack of funding, many federal agencies are now operating more effectively from the top down on a fraction of their workforce, with only select essential personnel serving national security tasks. One might think this is how government should function, but bureaucracies operate from the bottom up, a collective of self-generated ideas. Ideas become initiatives, formalize into offices, they seek funds from Congress and become bureaus or sub-agencies, and maybe one day grow to be their own independent agency, like ours. The nature of a big administrative bureaucracy is to grow to serve itself. I watch it and fight it daily. (RELATED: Remember When Obama And Clinton Shut Down Government For Their Own Pet Projects?)

    When the agency is full, employees held liable for poor performance respond with threats, lawsuits, complaints, and process in at least a dozen offices, taking years of mounting paperwork with no fear of accountability, extending their careers, while no real work is done. Do we succumb to such extortion? Yes. We pay them settlements, we waive bad reviews, and we promote them.

    Many government agencies have adopted the position that more complaints are good because it shows inclusion in, you guessed it, the process. When complaints come, it is cheaper to pay them off than to hold public servants accountable. The result: People accused of serious offenses are not charged, and self-proclaimed victims are paid by you, the American taxpayer.

    The message to federal supervisors is clear. Maintain the status quo, or face allegations. Many federal employees truly believe that doing tasks more efficiently and cutting out waste, by closing troubled programs instead of expanding them, “is morally wrong,” as one cried to me.

    I get it. These are their pets. It is tough to put them down and let go, and many resist. This phenomenon was best summed up by a colleague who said, “The goal in government is to do nothing. If you try to get things done, that’s when you will run into trouble.”

    But President Trump can end this abuse. Senior officials can reprioritize during an extended shutdown, focus on valuable results and weed out the saboteurs. We do not want most employees to return, because we are working better without them. Sure, we empathize with families making tough financial decisions, like mine, and just like private citizens who have to find other work and bring competitive value every day, while paying more than a third of their salary in federal taxes.

    President Trump has created more jobs in the private sector than the furloughed federal workforce. Now that we are shut down, not only are we identifying and eliminating much of the sabotage and waste, but we are finally working on the president’s agenda.

    President Trump does not need Congress to address the border emergency, and yes, it is an emergency. Billions upon billions of hard-earned tax dollars are still being dumped into foreign aid programs every year that do nothing for America’s interest or national security. The president does not need congressional funding to deconstruct abusive agencies who work against his agenda. This is a chance to effect real change, and his leverage grows stronger every day the shutdown lasts.

    The president should add to his demands, including a vote on all of his political nominees in the Senate. Send the career appointees back. Many are in the 5 percent of saboteurs and resistance leaders. (RELATED: New Facts Indicate Mueller Destroyed Evidence, Obstructed Justice)

    A word of caution: To be a victory, this shutdown must be different than those of the past and should achieve lasting disruption with two major changes, or it will hurt the president.

    The first thing we need out of this is better security, particularly at the southern border. Our founders envisioned a free market night watchman state, not the bungled bloated bureaucracy our government has become. But we have to keep the uniformed officers paid, which is an emergency. Ideally continue a resolution to pay the essential employees only, if they are truly working on national security. Furloughed employees should find other work, never return and not be paid.

    Secondly, we need savings for taxpayers. If this fight is merely rhetorical bickering with Nancy Pelosi, we all lose, especially the president. But if it proves that government is better when smaller, focusing only on essential functions that serve Americans, then President Trump will achieve something great that Reagan was only bold enough to dream.

    The president’s instincts are right. Most Americans will not miss non-essential government functions. A referendum to end government plunder must happen. Wasteful government agencies are fighting for relevance but they will lose. Now is the time to deliver historic change by cutting them down forever.

    The author is a senior official in the Trump administration.

    The views and opinions expressed in this commentary are those of the author and do not reflect the official position of The Daily Caller

    https://amp.dailycaller.com/2019/01/...mpression=true

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