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  1. #201

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    Secret nuke deal with Saudi Arabia. What could possibly go wrong with this arrangement. amirite?
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1R82MG
    I see it as an unfortunate choice made in the sometimes very dirty world of foreign policy. The simple reaction to this is that "know-nothing Trump and his Barney Fife sidekick Rick Perry striking a nuclear deal with the murderous Saudis" can't be a good thing - don't know why, but it can't be good.

    The less simple reaction is that this is a move to help maintain the balance of power in the Persian Gulf. Thanks to Obama's foot-kissing deal with the Iranians and his shipping of boatloads of dollars and gold to them, Iran is expanding their influence throughout the Middle East- with aid from Russia. There must be a balancing force to the Iranians.

  2. #202

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Most recently the Saudis have been a force against terrorism, which seems to be Trumps main goal over there. It ain't pretty, that's for sure. But sometimes you have to do things that make you hold your knows, because the alternative is even less appealing (just nuking the **** out of the region and starting over).

  3. #203

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Most recently the Saudis have been a force against terrorism, which seems to be Trumps main goal over there. It ain't pretty, that's for sure. But sometimes you have to do things that make you hold your knows, because the alternative is even less appealing (just nuking the **** out of the region and starting over).
    well of course they have recently been a force against terrorism... MBS would hate for people to follow someone other than him, and most terrorist groups require loyalty to them, and not a crown prince.

  4. #204

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Most recently the Saudis have been a force against terrorism, which seems to be Trumps main goal over there. It ain't pretty, that's for sure. But sometimes you have to do things that make you hold your knows, because the alternative is even less appealing (just nuking the **** out of the region and starting over).
    Good article detailing how SA turns a blind eye to the outside the kingdom funding of terrorist groups through crime, money laundering , etc.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominic.../#645c3fdf6763

    A report published on September 24(2018) by the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) – an intergovernmental body based in Paris – said “Saudi Arabia is not effectively investigating and prosecuting individuals involved in larger scale or professional [money laundering] activity” and is “not effectively confiscating the proceeds of crime”.

    Per USA definition of "terrorism". Terrorism is defined in Title 22 Chapter 38 U.S. Code 2656f as "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents".[4] In general, terrorism is classified as:
    It is the use of violence or threat of violence in the pursuit of political, religious, ideological or social objectives.
    It can be committed by non-state actors or undercover personnel serving on the behalf of their respective governments.
    It reaches more than the immediate target victims and is also directed at targets consisting of a larger spectrum of society.
    It is both mala prohibita (i.e., crime that is made illegal by legislation) and mala in se (i.e., crime that is inherently immoral or wrong).

    Using the definition of terrorism by our government, would not the assassination of Khashogi by SA agents/KSM be terrorism?

  5. #205

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by jedicurt View Post
    well of course they have recently been a force against terrorism... MBS would hate for people to follow someone other than him, and most terrorist groups require loyalty to them, and not a crown prince.
    Not trying to distract from the reasons. Just saying, that is what is happening. Yeah, royalty and stuff seems to have this odd preoccupation with those sorts of things.

  6. #206

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    Good article detailing how SA turns a blind eye to the outside the kingdom funding of terrorist groups through crime, money laundering , etc.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominic.../#645c3fdf6763

    A report published on September 24(2018) by the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) – an intergovernmental body based in Paris – said “Saudi Arabia is not effectively investigating and prosecuting individuals involved in larger scale or professional [money laundering] activity” and is “not effectively confiscating the proceeds of crime”.

    Per USA definition of "terrorism". Terrorism is defined in Title 22 Chapter 38 U.S. Code 2656f as "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents".[4] In general, terrorism is classified as:
    It is the use of violence or threat of violence in the pursuit of political, religious, ideological or social objectives.
    It can be committed by non-state actors or undercover personnel serving on the behalf of their respective governments.
    It reaches more than the immediate target victims and is also directed at targets consisting of a larger spectrum of society.
    It is both mala prohibita (i.e., crime that is made illegal by legislation) and mala in se (i.e., crime that is inherently immoral or wrong).

    Using the definition of terrorism by our government, would not the assassination of Khashogi by SA agents/KSM be terrorism?
    No. Khashogi sympathized with terrorists. Words get you killed over there. Unless you consider the elimination of the "Jewish State" to just be some religious dogma.

  7. #207

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    No. Khashogi sympathized with terrorists. Words get you killed over there.
    You are attempting to victim blame here. What part of the definition of terrorism is at odds with the assassination? I can certainly cite instances of the USA sympathizing with terrorists and not accuse the US government of being terrorists. You are right about words. When Saudi citizens mention human rights the government whips or kills them to send a message to others in the kingdom by terrorizing them. Again, the SA government casts a blind eye to the financing of these terrorist groups. The subject at hand is Saudi terrorism, not who the government of SA rationalizes killing through their own twisted beliefs.

  8. #208

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Do I think the Saudi's are a match made in heaven? Hell no. But when your options are between bad and really bad, you take bad. We need some stability over there other than Israel, and if we keep a short leash on SA and make it happen, then great. Who would rather team up with? Iran? Qutar? Syria?

    And while they may not be getting all, I think saying they are turning a blind eye is a bit of editorializing. They have been seizing ridiculous amount of cash over the last few years.

    Saudis Said to Use Coercion and Abuse to Seize Billions @ New York Times

    Like I said, it ain't pretty how they are doing it, but it is getting done. Maybe the pace ain't good enough for you, but what do you suggest be done?

  9. #209

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    You are attempting to victim blame here. What part of the definition of terrorism is at odds with the assassination? I can certainly cite instances of the USA sympathizing with terrorists and not accuse the US government of being terrorists.
    No, I am calling out a terrorist. Yeah, in the states he would still have rights and stuff, but that doesn't mean I think he deserves any better than he got.

  10. #210

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    No, I am calling out a terrorist. Yeah, in the states he would still have rights and stuff, but that doesn't mean I think he deserves any better than he got.
    If he was a terrorist. I will take the word of our State Dept and vetting over that of a middle ages kingdom.

  11. #211

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    No, I am calling out a terrorist. Yeah, in the states he would still have rights and stuff, but that doesn't mean I think he deserves any better than he got.
    KSM is the terrorist based on the CIA wiretaps as well as all available evidence. Our government is derelict in providing these people anything.

  12. #212

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    I hate to break it to you but those folks, following the teachings of their religion, don't tolerate anyone seen as a threat to those in authority and their religion. The royal family and the Sunni Wahabbist Islamic faith are virtually one in the same. They run an absolute monarchy where dissent is simply not allowed. Kashoggi directly challenged their authority so the family had him terminated with extreme prejudice. To them, this is within their rights as blessed to them by Allah as caretakers of Islam, Mecca, Medina and other foundations of the faith.

    The wests perception of terrorism towards others is Allah's will to them. This line of thinking and action runs pretty common with most all Islamic leaders.

    Again, foreign policy is a dirty business.

  13. #213

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump...b069b2129f1844

    "President Donald Trumps trade war cost American businesses and consumers $3 billion a month last year in higher prices, according to a study by top economists."

    "The trade war also cost companies an additional $1.4 billion a month in efficiency losses as they changed the way they do business to adapt to the tariffs, such as cobbling together new supply chains, according to the study."

  14. #214

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    And another group of economists will say Trumps tarrif war has caused companies to become less wasteful, more efficient and, once a China deal is done, could easily cause the economy to soar by opening the Chinese markets without Chinese espionage or partnerships.

    Look beyond the end of your Trump-hating nose. You can always find a study, have an original thought.

  15. #215

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    And another group of economists will say Trumps tarrif war has caused companies to become less wasteful, more efficient and, once a China deal is done, could easily cause the economy to soar by opening the Chinese markets without Chinese espionage or partnerships.

    Look beyond the end of your Trump-hating nose. You can always find a study, have an original thought.
    Exactly... Trump campaigned on how bad trade agreements that wed agreed to in the past were and needed to be renegotiated... Weve always set the example of free trade while letting others play by a different set of rules and take advantage of us... They were never going to agree to renegotiate because we asked nicely...the only way to change the game was to change th rules. Change our negotiating position from one of weakness and allowing ourselves to be taken advantage of to one of strength and using the leverage that they need us much more than we need them to negotiate agreements on a much more level playing field...and its working

  16. #216

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    60 Top Corporations Paid $0 Federal Taxes Under Trump Tax Law

    "“Instead of paying $16.4 billion in taxes, as the new 21 percent corporate tax rate requires, these companies enjoyed a net corporate tax rebate of $4.3 billion, blowing a $20.7 billion hole in the federal budget last year,” the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy report says.

    ...

    The cut in the corporate tax rate alone will save corporations $1.35 trillion over the next 10 years, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.

    As for the nation, revenues from the corporate tax fell by 31% in 2018 to $204 billion."

    Yeah, great accomplishment there........................................

  17. #217

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    60 Top Corporations Paid $0 Federal Taxes Under Trump Tax Law

    "“Instead of paying $16.4 billion in taxes, as the new 21 percent corporate tax rate requires, these companies enjoyed a net corporate tax rebate of $4.3 billion, blowing a $20.7 billion hole in the federal budget last year,” the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy report says.

    ........
    AT&T alone made a huge dent:

    AT&T

    It’s unclear just how much money AT&T has overseas. But the service provider gave $1 billion in $1,000 bonuses to about 200,000 “frontline employees,” who were all union-represented, non-management, and frontline managers. An AT&T spokesperson confirmed to SDxCentral that the bonuses were paid at the end of 2017.

    Additionally, in its fourth quarter earnings call with investors it said that in September 2017 it made a number of decisions “with tax reform in mind.” These decisions included $200 million in bonuses, $800 million to its employee and retiree medical trust, $100 million to its charitable foundation, and “a number of other steps,” according to the Seeking Alpha transcript of the call.

    AT&T also increased its 2018 capex by $1 billion, bringing its anticipated capex spending for 2018 to $23 billion.

    https://www.sdxcentral.com/articles/...-cash/2018/05/

    Cisco:

    Additionally, $10 billion to $12 billion will go toward future acquisitions for Cisco. Since the start of the year, Cisco has acquired two companies: Accompany and Skyport Systems

    Verizon

    Verizon stands to bring back $4 billion in overseas cash. It intends to use the cash to increase its contributions to the Verizon Foundation Fund to $300 million, a $200 million increase, over the next two years. It will also strengthen its balance sheet. And earlier this year Verizon made a $1 billion voluntary contribution to its pension plans.

    Additionally, it said it would give every employee 50 shares of restricted stock at the February 1, 2018 price. A single share of Verizon closed that day at $54.30. This offer excluded management. Verizon confirmed to SDxCentral that the first half of these shares were already granted.

    And Apple alone covers that $16.4 billion:

    Apple

    Apple made statements that it planned to bring back the majority of its $252.3 billion in overseas cash as a result of the lowered tax. It noted that it would pay a $38 billion one-time payment to repatriate this sum.

    With this money, Apple said it would invest $30 billion in capital expenditures in the U.S. over the next five years, spend $10 billion on building data centers in the U.S., increase its spending to U.S.-based component suppliers and manufacturers from $1 billion to $5 billion; and open a new domestic campus in a location where the company didn’t already have a presence.

    The company says its push to reinvest in the U.S. economy will create 20,000 jobs over the next five years, according to Apple CEO Tim Cook in a statement

  18. #218

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Corporations don't pay income tax, they set prices of products accordingly to pass taxation through as an expense of producing the product or service they produce. In reality, it's the buyer of their product who pays the tax in the end. They may sometimes write a check to the IRS if their accounting staff's can't find enough deductions but rest assured, their product prices include tax expense where the buyer is paying it.

    Unlike how many people think, a corporation is not a human being. It is simply, a car if you will, with interchangeable driver's. This is why the law should be changed so corporate executives are held liable for crimes and mismanagement.

    This is a complete non-issue.

  19. #219

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Those kind of reports rarely give the actual reason there was a net zero tax liability. Delta for example was still carrying forward a loss. So in 2018 the incurred income tax payable, but the losses more than offset it. Had nothing to do with the tax change.

    John Deere actually raised it's provision for income taxes, they say due to the tax law (because they expect increased sales). And they actually say there was an unfavorable impact on their firm due to the change in tax law. It looks like Deere used tax credits and loss carry-forwards. Again, these are not new. Industrial firms and airlines have had their fair share of losses.

    Investor analyst are too smart to let JD & Delta lie their asses off.

  20. #220

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    https://www.epi.org/publication/its-...orking-people/

    "Tax day provides yet another opportunity to assess what the data says so far about the record of the 2017 Republican tax law, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA). With a year’s worth of data in, the story remains the same—there’s no evidence the corporate tax cuts in the TCJA have trickled down to workers."

  21. #221

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Yet another left wing National Enquirer-esque piece of fabrication from TheTravellers. As usual, read the article and take it with a grain of salt then go find the information available. From the corporate tax cuts, approximately 3 million workers received special bonuses following the announcement of the cuts and millions more are receiving wage hikes and minimum wage hikes.

    Taxes are not paid by corporations. Taxes are treated as an expense and are part of operating expenses, factored into the cost of producing a product or a service. Per taxfoundation.org, and the Congressional Budget office, it is estimated 70% of employees bear the cost of higher taxes. The other 30 percent is borne by capital owners (some wealthy but some middle class through 401K plans).

    Business must now operate globally. It is estimated that the statutory corporate income tax rate in the United States, including an average of state corporate income taxes, is now 25.7%. Prior to the tax cuts it was 38.9% - only the United Arab Emirates had a higher rate.

    Per Forbes, the average of other industrialized nations was 14.3 percentage points lower than the US. That means the US was basically spotting other industrialized nations, at kickoff, two touchdowns to produce the same unit of product or service. In order for US companies to compete globally, the playing field had to be leveled. That has been done, taxwise, through these tax cuts.

    Per the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, in 1983, most industrialized countries had corporate tax rates in the 50% range. Since that time, rates have been dropping worldwide. Only the US was maintaining a high rate which, eventually, became the highest in the world. Today, it is about at the average.

    Finally, the corporate tax cuts were never meant to trickle down directly to the workers. The notion the author of TheTraveller's link tries to make is that workers would receive direct benefit like they would from a personal tax cut is completely fabricated. The secondary theory would be higher profits means higher investment back into technology and research. This is being done. Per the National Center for Science and Engineering Statistics, R&D spending has risen from appx. $500 billion to $700 billion the last 2 years. This should translate to higher worker productivity and eventually higher wages.

    In all fairness, wages have not risen as high as they should have though they have risen fairly well over the past 6 months. Public pressure has translated to higher minimum wages in many areas and eventually, this will translate to general worker pay eventually. Finally, I think there will be some sort of high INCOME earner tax increase - but this is NOT a wealth tax.

  22. #222

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    Yet another left wing National Enquirer-esque piece of fabrication from TheTravellers. As usual, read the article and take it with a grain of salt then go find the information available. From the corporate tax cuts, approximately 3 million workers received special bonuses following the announcement of the cuts and millions more are receiving wage hikes and minimum wage hikes.

    Taxes are not paid by corporations. Taxes are treated as an expense and are part of operating expenses, factored into the cost of producing a product or a service. Per taxfoundation.org, and the Congressional Budget office, it is estimated 70% of employees bear the cost of higher taxes. The other 30 percent is borne by capital owners (some wealthy but some middle class through 401K plans).

    Business must now operate globally. It is estimated that the statutory corporate income tax rate in the United States, including an average of state corporate income taxes, is now 25.7%. Prior to the tax cuts it was 38.9% - only the United Arab Emirates had a higher rate.

    Per Forbes, the average of other industrialized nations was 14.3 percentage points lower than the US. That means the US was basically spotting other industrialized nations, at kickoff, two touchdowns to produce the same unit of product or service. In order for US companies to compete globally, the playing field had to be leveled. That has been done, taxwise, through these tax cuts.

    Per the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, in 1983, most industrialized countries had corporate tax rates in the 50% range. Since that time, rates have been dropping worldwide. Only the US was maintaining a high rate which, eventually, became the highest in the world. Today, it is about at the average.

    Finally, the corporate tax cuts were never meant to trickle down directly to the workers. The notion the author of TheTraveller's link tries to make is that workers would receive direct benefit like they would from a personal tax cut is completely fabricated. The secondary theory would be higher profits means higher investment back into technology and research. This is being done. Per the National Center for Science and Engineering Statistics, R&D spending has risen from appx. $500 billion to $700 billion the last 2 years. This should translate to higher worker productivity and eventually higher wages.

    In all fairness, wages have not risen as high as they should have though they have risen fairly well over the past 6 months. Public pressure has translated to higher minimum wages in many areas and eventually, this will translate to general worker pay eventually. Finally, I think there will be some sort of high INCOME earner tax increase - but this is NOT a wealth tax.
    The only tax that makes any sense at all is a wealth tax. Don't get me wrong I benefit greatly from the notion of taxing income but it baffles me that the working class so easily accepted that scam.
    Don't hassle me, I'm local.

  23. #223

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by Stew View Post
    The only tax that makes any sense at all is a wealth tax. Don't get me wrong I benefit greatly from the notion of taxing income but it baffles me that the working class so easily accepted that scam.
    I understand what sounds like a good thing is a wealth tax. However, look at it more in depth and you would see that a wealth tax is nearly impossible to do. Let's say you are Jeff Bezos and have $100 billion in wealth. Jeff Bezos makes only about $85,000 per year in salary. The rest is locked up in "wealth" - shares of Amazon, Space-X and the Washington Post and whatever other investments you own.

    A wealth tax would mean a tax on the value of the stocks, bonds and cash you have sitting in the bank. It would shock me if Bezos has more than $10 million in cash assets. Therefore, in order to pay a wealth tax, you would have to either liquidate assets to pay the wealth tax or transfer ownership of privately owned companies to the government.

    If you own $90 billion in assets and a wealth tax is even 10% (left-wingnuts have proposed up to 70%), you would have to liquidate $9 billion in assets. Even $9 billion in sales would wreak havoc in the markets, especially if you consider the cumulative effect of all the "1% wealthy" who would have to do this.

    Liquidating stocks to pay a wealth tax would cause all markets to plummet, it would cause the net wealth and GDP of the US economy to plummet and quite possibly cause a depression. (It is estimated a 10% rise or fall in the stock market equates to about a 1% rise or fall in GDP).

    The other option would be for the government to obtain the stock that would have to be liquidated - making the government an owner of private business and that has only been done for very short term and very extreme reasons. Do you want the government owning Amazon? The government would sell the stock causing the same destructive effect on the markets.

    So, while a wealth tax sounds good, you just can't do it.

    Besides, I think it is illegal.

  24. #224

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Isn't property tax a form of wealth tax? We seem to figure that one out without crashing the real estate markets. The status quo works for me but I simply can't figure how the working class can accept the notion that selling an hour of your life for some paltry amount that is far less than its actual value should be taxed. At the very least wages are merely a trade of equal value for equal value but that's a stretch given we can all agree there is nothing more valuable or scarce than the number of days we get to walk on this planet. But hey if you guys fall for it that's on you.
    Don't hassle me, I'm local.

  25. #225

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by Stew View Post
    Isn't property tax a form of wealth tax? We seem to figure that one out without crashing the real estate markets. The status quo works for me but I simply can't figure how the working class can accept the notion that selling an hour of your life for some paltry amount that is far less than its actual value should be taxed. At the very least wages are merely a trade of equal value for equal value but that's a stretch given we can all agree there is nothing more valuable or scarce than the number of days we get to walk on this planet. But hey if you guys fall for it that's on you.
    Property tax is a miniscule tax rate on ONLY real estate and has been there all along (as compared to the 70% annual rate AOC was proposing. If you were to put a .005% tax rate on general property ($100 billion x .005% would be $5 million), this kind of figure would not cause significant problems but it would not achieve the goal of reducing the wealth disparity and pay for all the socialistic plans like Medicare for All.

    Back to Bezos. He has this $100 billion in wealth. He really can't do anything with it. It's value of Amazon, SpaceX and The Washington Post. It's locked up in brick and morter, in products, in the web site, in rockets, paper, printing presses and in the employees. He couldn't just decide one day to sell it for cash. Unless he changes his thinking, he can't even dole portions of it out to his employees. Either the companies are private and don't have the same types of shares, or they can't have multiple owners. With Amazon, like Zuckerberg, he wants to maintain complete control of the company and as it's founder, he should be able to do it.

    As far as employees and wages, wages are a reflection of the employee's value, education, abilities and how it relates to work. A person putting shipping packages together that a robot has picked off a shelf needs little special training and won't earn a lot. Neither does that person pay income tax. It may get withheld, but it gets refunded back every April. What I find hypocritical are people like Tom Steyer, who made $280 million in INCOME in a recent year, being outspoken about income inequality and running some commission studying the problem in California. I see this as well, I have my money now, my $2 billion in wealth and $280 million in income but now we can put limits on everyone who is still earning.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stew View Post
    But hey if you guys fall for it that's on you.
    Huh? This seems like a reversal of what you previously said.

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