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  1. #26

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    LOL, so predictable. Proved my point with grace, right down to the line about Trump fans all being in a cult of personality. Again, lump all Republicans/Conservative into a single, simplistic group and nullify their importance.
    I said "trump fans" specifically. It is a lie to claim more. That's a nuanced approach that lots of people just can't understand.

    For example, All republicans aren't "fans" of trump. They may tolerate him to advance an agenda or may be a "never trump" person or be Cesar Sayoc. There's probably a range of support among trump's voters but not everyone seems capable of understanding that the world may have more dimensions than "us against them."

    Cesar Sayoc is a fan and not all "fans" are fanatical enough to try to kill everyone vilified by trump. I'd find Sayoc a difficult person to be ideologically aligned with, but perhaps that's because I'd be more inclined to support a political chant of "si, se puede" than the much loved "lock her up" chant.

    Not all politics can be distilled into "we rock, you suck."

  2. #27

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    lol, you guys are kewt.

    I work for a oil industry related tech company that actually employs well paid people in Oklahoma. His idiotic xenophobia makes it a nightmare to hire tech talent that we desperately need, his idiotic isolationist trade war makes it a nightmare to buy vital steel components. The Oklahoma Oil Industry is actively lobbying against his teriffs and calling them "crippling".

    I hate this guy for like a billion reason, but these supposed economic gains will not last and I can give several pretty standard supply/demand boring economic reasons the Trump administration has made a mess of things that were actually working pretty well. I don't have to get in to the partisan sports fan arguments. This guy's business acumen is as fake as his Christianity hahaha.

  3. #28

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    BTW the dow has been sliding down since July and the other indices are not doing much better. It's now actually sitting at the same level it was in December of 2017 and no even remotely reliable forecasting is expecting a reversal anytime soon.

    I'd love to see what any of these big trump fans thought of this if they either A) actually made it through an entire basic econ text B) ran an enterprise that actually does any real manufacturing or deals with international trade partners, or heaven forbid both. The amount of ignorance to the current state of manufacturing, international trade, world economic development, currency markets, basic labor supply/demand, I could go on for days, is just plain shameful. This is a truly embarrassing time to be an American doing business with non-Americans and it IS costing us loads of money.

  4. #29

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by EBAH View Post
    BTW the dow has been sliding down since July and the other indices are not doing much better. It's now actually sitting at the same level it was in December of 2017 and no even remotely reliable forecasting is expecting a reversal anytime soon.

    I'd love to see what any of these big trump fans thought of this if they either A) actually made it through an entire basic econ text B) ran an enterprise that actually does any real manufacturing or deals with international trade partners, or heaven forbid both. The amount of ignorance to the current state of manufacturing, international trade, world economic development, currency markets, basic labor supply/demand, I could go on for days, is just plain shameful. This is a truly embarrassing time to be an American doing business with non-Americans and it IS costing us loads of money.
    I agree and it's infuriating that most Americans cannot see the kind of damage this man is doing to our country and our economic future. People these days cannot see past their tribalism and hatred towards those who are different.

    I think most people support Trump because of issues like abortion, gay marriage, transgender bathrooms, guns, and immigration. The Trump era is a backlash against the social liberalism of the Obama years. People really like Trump's alpha-male "strong man" persona in contrast to Obama's intellectual persona and are more concerned with ideological purity than policy specifics. It's the result of an electorate terrified by the how fast the culture has been changing in recent years. Most Trump supporters have only basic (if even that) knowledge of economics and aren't going to realize how much damage he's actually doing until it hits their pocketbooks. My guess is that 2020's economy will be more like 2010 or 2011 than 2017.

  5. #30

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond_Outsider View Post
    I said "trump fans" specifically. It is a lie to claim more. That's a nuanced approach that lots of people just can't understand.

    For example, All republicans aren't "fans" of trump. They may tolerate him to advance an agenda or may be a "never trump" person or be Cesar Sayoc. There's probably a range of support among trump's voters but not everyone seems capable of understanding that the world may have more dimensions than "us against them."

    Cesar Sayoc is a fan and not all "fans" are fanatical enough to try to kill everyone vilified by trump. I'd find Sayoc a difficult person to be ideologically aligned with, but perhaps that's because I'd be more inclined to support a political chant of "si, se puede" than the much loved "lock her up" chant.

    Not all politics can be distilled into "we rock, you suck."
    I 100% agree. Unfortunately, too many others on here don't agree. The problem is Trump, not all Republicans, not all conservatives and not all people who didn't vote for Hillary. The mainstream left is now equating everyone on the right - politicians, their families, and everyday people. To me, this behavior is at least as bad as Trump's. Both are outright wrong.

    BChris's post above is a prime example. Its ignorant of business and simply hateful and bigoted.

  6. Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    From Robert Reich's blog:

    TRUMP’S 30 BROKEN PROMISES
    Trump voters: Two years in, here’s an updated list of Trump’s 30 biggest broken promises.

    1. He told you he’d cut your taxes, and that the super-rich like him would pay more. You bought it. But his 2017 tax law has done the opposite. By 2027, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, the richest 1 percent will have received 83 percent of the tax cut and the richest 0.1 percent, 60 percent of it. But more than half of all Americans — 53 percent — will pay more in taxes. As Trump told his wealthy friends at Mar-a-Lago just days after the tax bill became law, “You all just got a lot richer.”

    2. He promised that the average family would see a $4,000 pay raise because of the tax law. You bought it. But real wages for most Americans are lower today than they were before the tax law went into effect.

    3. He promised to close special interest loopholes that have been so good for Wall Street investors but unfair to American workers, especially the notorious “carried interest” loophole for private-equity, hedge fund, and real estate partners. You bought it. But the new tax law kept the “carried interest” loophole.

    4. He promised to bring an end to Kim Jong-Un’s nuclear program. You bought it. Kim Jong-Un hasn’t denuclearized.

    5. He told you he’d repeal Obamacare and replace it with something “beautiful,” including “insurance for everybody.” You bought it. But he didn’t repeal and he didn’t replace. (Just as well: His plan would have knocked at least 24 million Americans off health insurance, including many of you.) Instead, he’s doing what he can to cut it back and replace it with nothing. According to the Commonwealth Fund, about 4 million Americans have lost health insurance in the last two years.

    6. He told you he wouldn’t “cut Social Security like every other Republican and I’m not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid.” You bought it. But now he’s planning such cuts in order to deal with the ballooning deficit created, in part, by the new tax law for corporations and the rich.

    7. He promised to protect anyone with pre-existing conditions. You bought it. But in June, his Justice Department told a federal court it would no longer defend provisions of Obamacare that protect patients with pre-existing conditions. Attorney General Jeff Sessions said the decision was made with Trump’s approval.

    8. He said he’d build a “wall” across the southern border.You believed him. But there’s no wall.

    9. He told you he’d invest $1 trillion in our nation’s crumbling infrastructure. You bought it. But after his giant tax cut for corporations and millionaires, there’s no money left for infrastructure.

    10. He said he’d drain the Washington swamp. You bought it. But he’s brought into his administration more billionaires, CEOs, and Wall Street moguls than in any administration in history, to make laws that will enrich their businesses, and he’s filled departments and agencies with former lobbyists, lawyers and consultants who are crafting new policies for the same industries they recently worked for.

    11. He promised to re-institute a five-year ban on all executive branch officials lobbying the government for five years after they leave government.” You bought it. But the five-year ban he signed applies only to lobbying one’s former agency, not the government as a whole, and it doesn’t stop former officials from becoming lobbyists.

    12. He said he’d use his business experience to whip the White House into shape. You bought it. But he has created the most dysfunctional, back-stabbing White House in modern history, and has already fired and replaced so many assistants that people there barely know who’s in charge of what.

    13. He told you he’d “bring down drug prices” by negotiating “like crazy” with drug companies. You bought it. But he hasn’t.

    14. He told you he’d “stop foreign lobbyists from raising money for American elections.” You bought it. But foreign lobbyists are still raising money for American elections.

    15. He promised “six weeks of paid maternity leave to any mother with a newborn child whose employer does not provide the benefit.” You bought it. But the giant tax cut for corporations and the rich doesn’t leave any money for this.

    16. He said he’d create tax-free dependent care savings accounts for younger and elderly dependents, and have the government match contributions low-income families put into their savings accounts. You bought it. He’s done neither.

    17. He said that on Day One he’d label China a “currency manipulator.” You bought it. But then he declared China is not a currency manipulator.

    18. He said he “won’t bomb Syria.” You bought it. Then he bombed Syria.

    19. After pulling out of the Paris accord, he said he’d negotiate a better deal on the environment. You bought it. There have been no negotiations.

    20. He promised that the many women who accused him of sexual misconduct “will be sued after the election is over.” You bought it. He hasn’t sued them, presumably because he doesn’t want the truth to come out.

    21. He said he would not be a president who took vacations, and criticized Barack Obama for taking too many vacations. You bought it. But since becoming President, he has spent a quarter of his days at one of his golf properties.

    22. He vowed to “push colleges to cut the skyrocketing cost of tuition.” You believed him. But he hasn’t. Instead, he’s made it easier for for-profit college to defraud students.

    23. He said he’d force companies to keep jobs in America, and that there would be consequences for companies that shipped jobs abroad, especially government contractors. You believed him. Never before in U.S. history have federal contractors sent so many jobs overseas. There have been no consequences.

    24. He promised to end DACA. Then in January 2018 promised that “DACA recipients should not to be concerned… We’re going to solve the problem,” then he reversed himself again and vowed to end the program by March, 2018. Currently, the federal courts have stayed any action on it.

    25. He promised to revive the struggling coal industry and bring back lost coal mining jobs. You bought it. But coal is still losing customers as utilities turn to natural gas and renewable power.

    26. He promised to protect American steel jobs. You bought it. His tariffs on steel have protected some steel jobs. But industries that use steel – like automakers and construction – now have to pay more for the steel they use, with the result that their jobs are threatened. The Trade Partnership projects that 400,000 jobs will be lost among steel and aluminum users.

    27. He said he’d make America safer. You believed him. But mass shootings keep rising, and Trump has failed to pass effective gun control legislation. After 17 died in Parkland, Florida, Trump promised “immediate action” on gun safety in schools, but has done nothing.

    28. He promised to make two- and four-year colleges more affordable. You bought it. But Trump’s most recent budget contains deep cuts in aid for low-income and first-generation college students, reduces Federal Work Study, and eliminates the 50-year-old Federal Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grant program, which goes to more than a million poor college kids each year.

    29. He promised to eliminate the federal deficit and bring down the debt. You bought it. Yet due to his massive tax cut mostly for corporations and the rich, and his military spending, the deficit is set to rise to $1 trillion, and the debt has ballooned to more than $21 trillion.

    30. He said he’d release his taxes. “I’m under a routine audit and it’ll be released, and as soon as the audit is finished it will be released,” he promised during the campaign. You bought it. He still hasn’t released his taxes.

  7. #32

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    From Robert Reich's blog:

    TRUMP’S 30 BROKEN PROMISES
    Trump voters: Two years in, here’s an updated list of Trump’s 30 biggest broken promises.

    1. He told you he’d cut your taxes, and that the super-rich like him would pay more. You bought it. But his 2017 tax law has done the opposite. By 2027, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, the richest 1 percent will have received 83 percent of the tax cut and the richest 0.1 percent, 60 percent of it. But more than half of all Americans — 53 percent — will pay more in taxes. As Trump told his wealthy friends at Mar-a-Lago just days after the tax bill became law, “You all just got a lot richer.”

    2. He promised that the average family would see a $4,000 pay raise because of the tax law. You bought it. But real wages for most Americans are lower today than they were before the tax law went into effect.

    3. He promised to close special interest loopholes that have been so good for Wall Street investors but unfair to American workers, especially the notorious “carried interest” loophole for private-equity, hedge fund, and real estate partners. You bought it. But the new tax law kept the “carried interest” loophole.

    4. He promised to bring an end to Kim Jong-Un’s nuclear program. You bought it. Kim Jong-Un hasn’t denuclearized.

    5. He told you he’d repeal Obamacare and replace it with something “beautiful,” including “insurance for everybody.” You bought it. But he didn’t repeal and he didn’t replace. (Just as well: His plan would have knocked at least 24 million Americans off health insurance, including many of you.) Instead, he’s doing what he can to cut it back and replace it with nothing. According to the Commonwealth Fund, about 4 million Americans have lost health insurance in the last two years.

    6. He told you he wouldn’t “cut Social Security like every other Republican and I’m not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid.” You bought it. But now he’s planning such cuts in order to deal with the ballooning deficit created, in part, by the new tax law for corporations and the rich.

    7. He promised to protect anyone with pre-existing conditions. You bought it. But in June, his Justice Department told a federal court it would no longer defend provisions of Obamacare that protect patients with pre-existing conditions. Attorney General Jeff Sessions said the decision was made with Trump’s approval.

    8. He said he’d build a “wall” across the southern border.You believed him. But there’s no wall.

    9. He told you he’d invest $1 trillion in our nation’s crumbling infrastructure. You bought it. But after his giant tax cut for corporations and millionaires, there’s no money left for infrastructure.

    10. He said he’d drain the Washington swamp. You bought it. But he’s brought into his administration more billionaires, CEOs, and Wall Street moguls than in any administration in history, to make laws that will enrich their businesses, and he’s filled departments and agencies with former lobbyists, lawyers and consultants who are crafting new policies for the same industries they recently worked for.

    11. He promised to re-institute a five-year ban on all executive branch officials lobbying the government for five years after they leave government.” You bought it. But the five-year ban he signed applies only to lobbying one’s former agency, not the government as a whole, and it doesn’t stop former officials from becoming lobbyists.

    12. He said he’d use his business experience to whip the White House into shape. You bought it. But he has created the most dysfunctional, back-stabbing White House in modern history, and has already fired and replaced so many assistants that people there barely know who’s in charge of what.

    13. He told you he’d “bring down drug prices” by negotiating “like crazy” with drug companies. You bought it. But he hasn’t.

    14. He told you he’d “stop foreign lobbyists from raising money for American elections.” You bought it. But foreign lobbyists are still raising money for American elections.

    15. He promised “six weeks of paid maternity leave to any mother with a newborn child whose employer does not provide the benefit.” You bought it. But the giant tax cut for corporations and the rich doesn’t leave any money for this.

    16. He said he’d create tax-free dependent care savings accounts for younger and elderly dependents, and have the government match contributions low-income families put into their savings accounts. You bought it. He’s done neither.

    17. He said that on Day One he’d label China a “currency manipulator.” You bought it. But then he declared China is not a currency manipulator.

    18. He said he “won’t bomb Syria.” You bought it. Then he bombed Syria.

    19. After pulling out of the Paris accord, he said he’d negotiate a better deal on the environment. You bought it. There have been no negotiations.

    20. He promised that the many women who accused him of sexual misconduct “will be sued after the election is over.” You bought it. He hasn’t sued them, presumably because he doesn’t want the truth to come out.

    21. He said he would not be a president who took vacations, and criticized Barack Obama for taking too many vacations. You bought it. But since becoming President, he has spent a quarter of his days at one of his golf properties.

    22. He vowed to “push colleges to cut the skyrocketing cost of tuition.” You believed him. But he hasn’t. Instead, he’s made it easier for for-profit college to defraud students.

    23. He said he’d force companies to keep jobs in America, and that there would be consequences for companies that shipped jobs abroad, especially government contractors. You believed him. Never before in U.S. history have federal contractors sent so many jobs overseas. There have been no consequences.

    24. He promised to end DACA. Then in January 2018 promised that “DACA recipients should not to be concerned… We’re going to solve the problem,” then he reversed himself again and vowed to end the program by March, 2018. Currently, the federal courts have stayed any action on it.

    25. He promised to revive the struggling coal industry and bring back lost coal mining jobs. You bought it. But coal is still losing customers as utilities turn to natural gas and renewable power.

    26. He promised to protect American steel jobs. You bought it. His tariffs on steel have protected some steel jobs. But industries that use steel – like automakers and construction – now have to pay more for the steel they use, with the result that their jobs are threatened. The Trade Partnership projects that 400,000 jobs will be lost among steel and aluminum users.

    27. He said he’d make America safer. You believed him. But mass shootings keep rising, and Trump has failed to pass effective gun control legislation. After 17 died in Parkland, Florida, Trump promised “immediate action” on gun safety in schools, but has done nothing.

    28. He promised to make two- and four-year colleges more affordable. You bought it. But Trump’s most recent budget contains deep cuts in aid for low-income and first-generation college students, reduces Federal Work Study, and eliminates the 50-year-old Federal Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grant program, which goes to more than a million poor college kids each year.

    29. He promised to eliminate the federal deficit and bring down the debt. You bought it. Yet due to his massive tax cut mostly for corporations and the rich, and his military spending, the deficit is set to rise to $1 trillion, and the debt has ballooned to more than $21 trillion.

    30. He said he’d release his taxes. “I’m under a routine audit and it’ll be released, and as soon as the audit is finished it will be released,” he promised during the campaign. You bought it. He still hasn’t released his taxes.
    Seems like someone is a . . .

    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #33

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck5815 View Post
    Seems like someone is a . . .

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And trump's followers a bunch of . . .

    The truth is never embarrassed by honest inquiry.

  9. #34

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by Dustin View Post
    And trump's followers a bunch of . . .

    I would have thought that winning the Lesser Chamber would have calmed your Snowflake Nerves a bit.

    But I guess not?

  10. #35

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    He appointed a SCOTUS justice who will likely be instrumental in overturning Roe v Wade and as of right now, it looks like he's about to get another. Social conservatives have waited 40 years for this so that is a big reason they are so willing to overlook Trump's shortcomings and gaffes.

  11. #36

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    He appointed a SCOTUS justice who will likely be instrumental in overturning Roe v Wade and as of right now, it looks like he's about to get another. Social conservatives have waited 40 years for this so that is a big reason they are so willing to overlook Trump's shortcomings and gaffes.
    I forget only Democrats are allowed to win at all costs.

  12. #37

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    He appointed a SCOTUS justice who will likely be instrumental in overturning Roe v Wade and as of right now, it looks like he's about to get another. Social conservatives have waited 40 years for this so that is a big reason they are so willing to overlook Trump's shortcomings and gaffes.
    For argument sake lets say it does get overturned. What is your fear? It would then refer to States to determine policies, which is better than feds telling us all how to live.

    That is what I don’t understand with the fearmongering about RoevsWade it just reverts to States to decide.

  13. #38

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by OKC Guy View Post
    For argument sake lets say it does get overturned. What is your fear? It would then refer to States to determine policies, which is better than feds telling us all how to live.

    That is what I don’t understand with the fearmongering about RoevsWade it just reverts to States to decide.
    Back in the day agriculture could not be done without slave labor.

    Today, birth control can not be done without abortion.

    We will adapt people, especially when we determine that those who can't speak for themselves are having their lives and right ripped from them for the convenience of another. And don't give me the life of the mother crap cause you know that's not what I'm talking about. Just save it.

  14. #39

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by OKC Guy View Post
    For argument sake lets say it does get overturned. What is your fear? It would then refer to States to determine policies, which is better than feds telling us all how to live.

    That is what I don’t understand with the fearmongering about RoevsWade it just reverts to States to decide.
    Well Oklahoma will likely face significant economic backlash because this state will likely be one of the first ones to ban abortion in the event Roe v Wade is struck down. However, I think that is a sacrifice most Oklahomans will be willing to make for this to be an abortion-free state.

    Honestly, I'm more worried about the collateral damage. What will conservatives let slide or allow to happen as the "means to the end" of ending abortion and maybe same-sex marriage? How much damage will your side allow Trump to inflict on our democratic institutions to accomplish this goal?

  15. #40

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    Well Oklahoma will likely face significant economic backlash because this state will likely be one of the first ones to ban abortion in the event Roe v Wade is struck down. However, I think that is a sacrifice most Oklahomans will be willing to make for this to be an abortion-free state.

    Honestly, I'm more worried about the collateral damage. What will conservatives let slide or allow to happen as the "means to the end" of ending abortion and maybe same-sex marriage? How much damage will your side allow Trump to inflict on our democratic institutions to accomplish this goal?
    Financial backlash because of banning abortion...in Oklahoma? How so?

  16. #41

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Financial backlash because of banning abortion...in Oklahoma? How so?
    Think something along the lines of North Carolina when they passed their bathroom law.

  17. #42

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    Think something along the lines of North Carolina when they passed their bathroom law.
    Honestly, we don't have what Carolina had to loose. I don't see it happening, and I REALLY don't see major corporations going all in on abortion.

  18. #43

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Best statistics show that less than 5,000 abortions a year are performed in Oklahoma, by only two providers (which most people wouldn't step foot in if they drove by). That being said abortions still represent over 8% of all births.

    And I also don't think Oklahoma would be alone, where as NC was on an island with that bill.

  19. #44

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Honestly, we don't have what Carolina had to loose. I don't see it happening, and I REALLY don't see major corporations going all in on abortion.
    You do make a good point here. Oklahoma doesn't have many (if any) corporate headquarters of companies that are heavily invested in liberal or social justice causes. I think the backlash will be much bigger in Texas (they will also probably be one of the first to ban abortion). Still, I'm not as concerned about Roe v Wade as I am with the damage Trumpism is doing to our institutions and our political discourse.

  20. #45

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    So, who do we thank for the trillion-dollar-plus deficits that puts America on path to fiscal ruin? Who?

  21. #46

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Congress. They appropriate, write the legislation and control the purse.

  22. #47

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck5815 View Post
    Seems like someone is a . . .

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I can see why he's on your ignore list. What a non-response.

  23. #48

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    Congress. They appropriate, write the legislation and control the purse.
    Let's say every Congress for the last 40 years - Dam or Republican controlled

  24. #49

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Don't forget that 10% tax cut for the middle class promised 3 weeks ago.

  25. #50

    Default Re: Trumps Accomplishments

    Stands shoulder to shoulder with our NATO and historical allies.
    Article: France fires back at Trump's lack of "common decency"
    http://flip.it/iCpSpm

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