Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
OKC has given the Chickasaw Nation 100 acres as part of the agreement to develop the AICCM. You won't see this city approve a casino on that acreage.
Correct me if I'm wrong... IIRC, development of those 100 acres specifically included a 'no casino' agreement clause.
Hopefully, you will see a towering hospitality hotel or a large hospitality hotel complex operated by the Chickasaw Nation (south of the river) bigger than the 605 room Omni currently under construction.
Platinum Member
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
the city has to no ability to approve or disapprove a casinoOriginally Posted by Laramie
Platinum Member
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
keep in mind that Remington park is actually not a "Casino" it is a raceino ie it was made that way before it was owned by the tribe and it is not in federal trust status ..
that is also why it can only has slot machines and not table games ..
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
So you're saying the Chickasaws could go thru with the development of the American Indian Cultural Center Museum (AICCM) and put a casino on the 100 acres the city gives them for completion of the Museum?
Biggest concern about development of the AICCM by the Chickasaws; they have their own cultural center museum just down the road in Sulphur, OK on 109 acres. OKC is giving them 100 acres near the AICCM to finish that project.
You're telling me that the City of Oklahoma have no legal means stop them from putting a casino on that land.
Platinum Member
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
no they can't but that has 0 to do with the city of OKC
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
Then who does it involve?
Banned
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
The state...
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
If that's the case, could easily see the Chickasaw Nation putting a towering hotel and casino right (Similar to Tulsa's River Spirit Casino) next to a popular Smithsonian tourist attraction.
Okay! Thanks guys for the quick responses...
Banned
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
I don't know if all of Tulsa is federal trust lands or not. That is a benefit Tulsa might have.
Participating Member
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
As I understand it, here's the deal with casinos.
--The State of Oklahoma makes gambling illegal. Nobody can have a casino at all.
--The Federal government says "wait a minute, Indian tribes are kinda-sorta sovereign nations. They can do what they want on Indian land."
--So Indian casinos spring up, but it's gotta be on land that's held in federal trust, or some other such restriction.
--No land within the Oklahoma City area qualifies for that. The closest land that qualifies is where Riverwind is.
--The City of OKC can do nothing about it, because it's illegal to gamble in Oklahoma, period.
--The Indians get an exception because tribes and reservations and stuff, but it's gotta be on traditional Indian land.
The State of Oklahoma could change its laws, and then everybody could have a casino. But they haven't, so the only way to have a casino is if it's that federal trust land.
Participating Member
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
nm
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
You will need the next 21-24 years, 3 separate MAPS initiatives totaling $2.4 billion if you want to address all the concerns/problems of this city. Let's spend $400/$425/$450 million on neighborhoods on each of the next 3 MAPS projects with each totaling $800 million renewed at 6-8 year intervals.
Oklahoma City urban population: 2020: 650,000
MAPS 4, 5 & 6 initiatives (21-24 year plan., $2.4 billion, 8 year intervals):
$400 million on neighborhoods
Streets, Bridges, Planters, Streetlights, curves & sidewalks.$200 million on capital improvement & related projects
New State Fair Arena, New Soccer-American Football Stadium$150 million on previous MAPS capital improvement project expenses.
Civic Center Music Hall & Plaza, Chesapeake Energy Arena, Bricktown Ballpark, Scissortail Park, Bennett Events Center, Barns & State Fair Park venues.$50 million in a contingency funds for factory-burden overhead.
Emergency roof repairs, infrastructure & high tech-cyber security upgrades
Oklahoma City urban population: 2028: 725,000
MAPS 5 (7 year, Renewal)
*$425 million on neighborhoods, $25 million growth increase
Streets, Bridges, Planters, Streetlights, curves & sidewalks...*$175 million on capital improvement & related projects, $25 million decrease
New Soccer-American Football Stadium potential expansion, Various projects$150 million on previous MAPS capital improvement project expenses.
Civic Center Music Hall & Plaza, Chesapeake Energy Arena, Bricktown Ballpark, Scissortail Park, Bennett Events Center, Barns & State Fair Park venues...$50 million in a contingency funds for factory-burden overhead.
Emergency roof repairs, infrastructure & high tech-cyber security upgrades
Oklahoma City urban population: 2034: 805,000
MAPS 6 (6 year, Renewal)
*$450million on neighborhoods, $25 million growth increase
Streets, Bridges, Planters, Streetlights, curves & sidewalks...*$150 million on capital improvement & related projects, $25 million decrease
Various projects$150 million on previous MAPS capital improvement project expenses.
Civic Center Music Hall & Plaza, Chesapeake Energy Arena, Bricktown Ballpark, Scissortail Park, Bennett Events Center, Barns & State Fair Park venues...$50 million in a contingency funds for factory-burden overhead.
Emergency roof repairs, infrastructure & high tech-cyber security upgrades
Note: MAPS 5, 6 are just suggested renewal plans; invest more money into neighborhoods & beautification. (*) changes...
Platinum Member
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
so the is all good info but let me give a litte bit more
the shawnee tribe (based in Miami Oklhaoma ) In 2000, Congress passed the Shawnee Status Act which reaffirmed the Tribe’s federal recognition status
that act also allowed them to aquired land to be put in federal trust status the catch was that their "historic" area is also the home of other existing tribes and they can't put any land into trust status without the concent of the cherokee nation or any other tribe
this actually allowed them to buy land anywhere in oklahoma and apply to put it into trust status .. (which they then tried to do just north of remington park)
lots in the city opposed this .. and so as a rider added to a transportation bill congress added a requirement that let the Governer of Oklahoma also have to sign off before that tribe (or any in the same situation) get land granted into trust status .
just a few years ago that same tribe got land in guymon for a casino approve and i believe it is under construction
Banned
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
The COOP site is perfect for a project of the size of the Kansas City Power & Light District.
Participating Member
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
Folks need to put a - between the o's to avoid confusion with the brewery and thier new location.
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
Mayor talks transit, MAPS 4 during live chat
Crews continue work on the Omni Hotel and the new convention center as seen from the north lawn of Scissortail Park.
[CHRIS LANDSBERGER/THE OKLAHOMAN]
Mayor David Holt joined Steve Lackmeyer for OKC Live Chat on Friday. What follows is an abridged transcript of the conversation with readers. You can join Steve's Q&A's Fridays at 9:30 a.m. and submit your questions about the happenings in and around downtown Oklahoma City.
You have mentioned on social media that a bus rapid transit (BRT) network, not more streetcar, will possibly be included in MAPS 4. Doesn't BRT have higher fares than regular service? How will the regular bus network be improved for those who rely on transit and only make minimum wage? Would you consider reducing or eliminating fares for all transit services?
Holt: I'm not sure Embark has BRT fares figured out. I would defer to them. There is talk of BRT and better bus service in MAPS 4. Watch for the presentation in July for more detail as we're still hammering things out.
I looked at eliminating fares in MAPS 4, but the only way to do it through MAPS 4 is through an endowment, and it would have to be $100 million. I still think that's an interesting conversation to have in transit policy longterm. Fares are less than 10 percent of the transit budget.
The general opinion I'm hearing across the city is that most voters will not vote for MAPS 4 primarily due to large projects that only speak to a smaller subset of the city (State Fair enhancements, soccer stadium, etc.). Can we expect a large project that everyone can unite behind to better our city? Something where everyone feels like it is a boost to our city overall? A culmination of smaller projects that address homelessness, mental health, education, and beautification are great, but I fear they won't push the needle far enough to pass MAPS 4 overall.
Holt: Two myths in this question I'd like to address. The potential State Fair and multipurpose stadium projects are simply not going to be centerpieces of MAPS
4. They may or may not be included in some fashion, but when I play with the numbers, those two add up to less than 10 percent of a package. They have drawn some attention to this point because they have marketing budgets, but pay attention to the presentations this summer to see what MAPS 4 will really be about. Or just keep listening to me. I'm being very candid about all this in all my public comments.
The voters are absolutely laser-focused on the human and neighborhood needs of this city. I've seen thirdparty scientific polling data that demonstrates support for those issues in MAPS 4 as being off the charts. If we put together a package that addresses human and neighborhood needs, this community will absolutely embrace this MAPS. I am 100 percent confident of that.
Also, voter approval of MAPS in general is already off the charts even without defined projects. People know MAPS is great for our city. But we're not taking that for granted.
We're still being very thoughtful about the creation of this package so we can push that support even higher.
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
Growing concern for mental health stability; just want to say that there comes a time in all of our lives we could use some counseling. Many of us wait too long before we recognize that we need help or treatment. Hope Oklahoma City can craft a facility that will provide additional support for our community's future mental health needs.
Mental health treatment facility proposed
By Kayla Branch, Oklahoman Staff writer
A mental health treatment facility will be one of many proposals for MAPS 4, meeting the increased desire from residents to fund social service projects and help reform the struggling county jail.
Oklahoma County Commissioner Carrie Blumert is leading the effort to put together the proposal and said polls have shown residents ranked mental health as one of the top areas they’d like to see MAPS funding focus on.
Blumert said this type of facility has long been needed to help divert individuals from the county jail where funding is tight, conditions are far below ideal and many lowlevel offenders are held for long periods of time.
In January, an inmate who had waited months to be transferred to a mental health treatment facility took her own life in the jail.
“If you’re a person with addiction or mental illness, being in a jail environment is not the answer,” Blumert said. “We hope that if we help you get treatment and help you learn how to manage that and live in recovery, we won’t see those people back in the criminal justice system.”
The hope is for the facility to be the first place arrestees are taken so they can be assessed, and those who qualify can be diverted to a treatment program rather than being taken to the jail at all.
It’s estimated that at any given time 30% to 40% of the jail’s population could be diverted to a mental health or substance abuse treatment facility, according to numbers recently presented to the newly created Oklahoma County Jail Trust, which oversees the operation and management of the jail.
“Everyone is conscious of this reality — that the Oklahoma County jail is the county’s largest mental health hospital, except it’s not really a mental health hospital at all,” said Mayor David Holt, who helped facilitate the idea for this project.
Blumert is currently having conversations with various stakeholders such as the Department of Mental Health and the ACLU to decide which programs would be included in the facility. She said she would like to see the building placed next to a new county jail if and when that time comes, but those conversations are also still ongoing.
It’s unclear exactly how much this project would cost, but it’s estimated the building would cost in the tens of millions of dollars.
Details are still being put together for the proposal, and a concrete, final plan would not be completed unless the project was approved for MAPS.
Jail funding
Jail employees and elected officials believe funding constraints are part of the problem at the county jail for a variety of reasons.
Oklahoma County is the only county in the state — out of 77 — that does not have a sales tax specifically for its jail, which Sheriff P.D. Taylor says is a serious problem.
Taylor attributes a majority of operational issues, employee turnover and lack of quality services to underfunding.
But the likelihood of a new county sales tax is slim. Only Blumert would be willing to push for a new tax out of the three county commissioners, and conversations around MAPS 4, which is the city’s largest sales tax initiative, will likely table other tax talks for the time being.
And the overcrowding in the jail along with the high number of inmates with health needs increases the cost for services and detention officer patrols.
That’s where the mental health treatment facility comes in.
Commissioners Brian Maughan and Kevin Calvey have also said they are interested in and supportive of this project.
“It’s time to form a partnership involving Oklahoma City, Oklahoma County and the 19 suburban communities in our county to create a stateof-the-art facility to house and help those facing mental illness and addiction,” Maughan wrote in a February opinion article in The Oklahoman.
Calvey said the Oklahoma City Police Department is the largest driver of inmates booked into the jail, so it would make sense to have the city help find solutions.
“The county itself doesn’t have the budget to fund these kinds of things. … So I would hope that in pursuing this MAPS, there would be some things that directly or indirectly help with the jail,” Calvey said.
Blumert did warn that if the facility is approved to be included in MAPS, ongoing operational funding would be crucial for success.
“The big hiccup is that MAPS will only pay for the actual facility. So I have to, along with these other partners, build a model where we can seek other funding,” she said. “I’m trying to be very conscious of not throwing an idea together, building a building and then realizing we have no funding to maintain it.”
The proposal is scheduled to be presented at the Aug. 6 City Council meeting. The council will have the final say on what proposals are included in the MAPS 4 vote this December.
“This would be a positive step for the people of Oklahoma City, but it would also take one of the action items off of the jail’s list moving forward and assist in the overall jail solution that may ultimately involve a county tax vote of some nature,” Holt said.
“It would at least take this burden off of them and that is the intent — that we could address this limited part of all of the challenges that they face over there.”
Oklahoman, Monday, June 24, 2019
Participating Member
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
The city needs to tell the county government to stay the eff away. The county is incredibly poorly managed, and has had so many issues with corruption, that nobody trusts them. Here they are, sniffing around, looking to get their hooks in a pile of money.
Participating Member
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
While I don't necessarily disagree with your point, mental health facilities such as the one proposed are still sorely needed for our community. If someone is having a mental breakdown, they shouldn't be thrown in county lockup. The question is how to pay for it's construction and operation.
Participating Member
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
The Oklahoma City-County Health department does a fairly decent job I think. And their facility on NW 63rd is very nice.
Participating Member
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
Funding operations is the biggest question. Isn't that an ongoing issue with getting all of the senior aquatic centers up and going?
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
We are making decisions thru MAPS that will help our city grow (specifically quality of life). The more we grow, the more we increase our city's sales tax collections.
MAPS projects like the MAPS 4 proposed State Fair Coliseum & Soccer American football stadium will generate its own operating income thru agreements from lease-rental & food concession income. The stadium will generate more income as it secures events thru a firm like SMG management.
We can build a badly need mental health facility. As for operations, hire some full time grant writers (they will more than justify their own salaries), the city will qualify for a number of grant funding programs like SAMHSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration) & U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Grants to name a few.
Some MAPS Projects will generate income; none to my knowledge will be totally self-sustaining. The stadium & coliseum will have potential to generate out-of-state income (economic impact money) infused into our local economy .
Participating Member
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
Exactly. Any prohibition would involve the state, not the city.
Participating Member
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
ok so I just have no idea about this and I am curious. Could Oklahoma City somehow put land in to Federal Trust? Is that a thing?
Also, casinos downtown have a stench of desperation to me. It's the kind of thing that a city like Detroit does in a last ditch effort to get ANYONE to come downtown. I don't really think we need one, but I'm sure it would be popular / profitable.
Platinum Member
Re: Ideas 4 MAPS
read a few posts up
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