Ideas 4 MAPS

[jedicurt]

MAPS 4 will not address all of OKC's needs & wants.

Vision the future--immediate needs & wants will never be achieved. The whole MAPS 4 ideas which will come up for a vote in early 2019 is about gathering information for future plans. Facilities voted upon won't be built until the money is collected--that too will take time.

Next to the NBA Thunder, what other professional sport does OKC possess that gives us the exposure MLS would give. MLS is televised on ESPN with frequency. National TV exposure is free advertisement/promotion for our city. WCWS on ESPN shed light on our city. The damage to our region by Steinbeck's 'Grapes of Wrath' still haunts Oklahoma.

Mayor Holt wants ideas; the more ideas, the more quality and added quantity our city enjoys--expanded offerings. Corporations want to expand into cities that offer its employees a diverse quality of life. We're not going to build everything over night, nor will MAPS 4 address all our needs/wants--you balance a mixture of both. Help or incentives with Energy FC will keep the team in OKC.

Now, I understand that many of the ideas won't be anything that everybody will be on board with; however the more you infuse into your economy, the more jobs created and OKC doesn't become stagnant. OKC's future potential depends on the momentum we go forward with MAPS 4, 5, 6.... We aren't sure about the timeline, costs or what will be presented before the voters; we're in the stage of gathering ideas.

It's nothing any of us should take personal, it's not about any one individual; collectively we move our city forward.

i guess i'm not understanding your response.. i agree MAPS for will not address all of OKC's needs and wants... never said that

I agree that MAPS should be about building the OKC we want to see in the future... didn't say anything against that... infact, most of the things i think are on OKC's needs list, do infact get us to a better vision for the future of OKC

damage to our region wasn't done just by Steinbeck... bad management of projects and planning have also lead to the damage, and probably more so... our bad image has way more to do with the fact that we have completely destroyed our history and so the only history that exists for people to observe are the works of steinbeck. MAPS 4 is a way we can make sure that we push the city forward now with improvements to infrastructure that hopefully won't be just destroyed by the next generation and the history of it gone along with it. i don't think a stadium that will only give us 25 years of use, is a good use of that money

Mayor Holt claims he wants ideas... and i hope that is true, and that 90% of the projects are not already determined.

i completely agree that every idea won't be for everyone... but we need to make sure that we get the most bang for our buck when it comes to infusing more into the economy.. again, the stadium only affects one small part of a very large city.

i haven't taken it personal in anyway... i just expressed my opinion to your suggestion. and was in complete support of the plan to build both the bricktown ballpark and the current arena... i'm even in favor of a new arena at the fairgrounds, i think it should be on MAPS 4. but if we put too many BIG items on the agenda, then we sacrifice a bunch of small ones that might have a more immediate and longer lasting impact... Expansion of bike trails, increasing walk ability of OKC, significantly improved transit... these are things that can also bring national notoriety to our city, and get people out more and spending more time in the community and thus improving the economy as well as the perception of OKC

[OKCRT]

Sidewalks in all neighborhoods and free 4-5 g wifi is something that would benefit a lot of folks around the whole city.

Prob. not something the Chamber wants but so what.

[BG918]

Agreed. Holt pushing an undesired soccer stadium certainly gives me the sense that the "survey" is mostly bull****.

Undesired? Hardly. This is from the MAPS community meeting, the people there made it clear they want a STADIUM:

[HangryHippo]

Undesired? Hardly. This is from the MAPS community meeting, the people there made it clear they want a STADIUM:

I didn't realize it was from a MAPS community meeting. My bad. It just seems like another stadium is a bad plan considering some of the other needs of the city.

[shawnw]

maybe not bad planning, but definitely bad optics. kinda like prioritizing the convention center, which was definitely a need, but not a want of the people. which means, hello stadium!

[hoya]

I'm surprised there's no push for the convention center expansion.

[shawnw]

give it a minute

[dankrutka]

The few people, and I'm talking few that care at all about soccer don't watch the MLS. As far as most Okies are concerned it's below NHL, and a pretty far drop. So when you say you want me the tax-payer to fund a stadium for a league that's even less than that, I just can't even begin to wrap my head around it. Truthfully I never thought the Energy would last, because in my head the newness would wear off and there just wouldn't be as much support as there is for the NBA or college football.

I am not trying to be pro or con on a soccer stadium, but I wanted to point out, the NBA wasn't popular in OKC before the Thunder. Minor league hockey used to be incredibly popular in OKC and isn't anymore. Saying that MLS (which is obviously a long shot) wouldn't be popular because it isn't now doesn't jive with how sports have always worked in OKC. If you put a good product and the market is there then MLS soccer could be successful even if it's not now. Also, building a stadium downtown with amenities like restaurants and bars around it is not comparable to Taft Stadium or other options in the metro. If OKC had a real chance at getting an MLS team I think it would be successful. Even upgrading to a new stadium near downtown could lead to a lot of success for the Energy. Of course, even the MLS will never be as popular as the NBA in OKC, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be a success. I just think there's been a lot of strawmen set up and knocked down in this thread. But, to be clear, I'm not arguing that a soccer stadium is the best item for MAPS 4. I'll leave that to others.

[jedicurt]

I am not trying to be pro or con on a soccer stadium, but I wanted to point out, the NBA wasn't popular in OKC before the Thunder. Minor league hockey used to be incredibly popular in OKC and isn't anymore. Saying that MLS (which is obviously a long shot) wouldn't be popular because it isn't now doesn't jive with how sports have always worked in OKC. If you put a good product and the market is there then MLS soccer could be successful even if it's not now. Also, building a stadium downtown with amenities like restaurants and bars around it is not comparable to Taft Stadium or other options in the metro. If OKC had a real chance at getting an MLS team I think it would be successful. Even upgrading to a new stadium near downtown could lead to a lot of success for the Energy. Of course, even the MLS will never be as popular as the NBA in OKC, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be a success. I just think there's been a lot of strawmen set up and knocked down in this thread. But, to be clear, I'm not arguing that a soccer stadium is the best item for MAPS 4. I'll leave that to others.

but going with that same logic of the history of sports in OKC... why did minor league hockey lose it's popularity? two reasons... first being the fact that free tickets weren't just being handed out to everyone, and second was the thunder arriving..

there were a few times with the blazers that i walked up to the box office to buy tickets and the lady in the booth told me she had better seats for a free promotion... so i tried to pay for hockey and still got seats for free... the moment free seats went away, so did attendance (a la the Barons)... plus there was all of a sudden things to do. go back and look at Blazers attendance (when it was really good) and compare to OU Football... when OU Football was terrible (mid-to-late 90's) and attendance was great... the moment that OU football was good again, attendance from October to December dropped dramatically and then picked up once football season was over. OKC has proved time and time again that it doesn't support multiple sports at once really well. so i still stand by my belief that MLS would not have much of a chance.

[Zuplar]

but going with that same logic of the history of sports in OKC... why did minor league hockey lose it's popularity? two reasons... first being the fact that free tickets weren't just being handed out to everyone, and second was the thunder arriving..

there were a few times with the blazers that i walked up to the box office to buy tickets and the lady in the booth told me she had better seats for a free promotion... so i tried to pay for hockey and still got seats for free... the moment free seats went away, so did attendance (a la the Barons)... plus there was all of a sudden things to do. go back and look at Blazers attendance (when it was really good) and compare to OU Football... when OU Football was terrible (mid-to-late 90's) and attendance was great... the moment that OU football was good again, attendance from October to December dropped dramatically and then picked up once football season was over. OKC has proved time and time again that it doesn't support multiple sports at once really well. so i still stand by my belief that MLS would not have much of a chance.

Yeah this was kind of my point, I probably just didn't do a good job getting that.

I don't think we have the population to support a ton of different sports. I feel like even college basketball support has slowed down due to the Thunder.

And the NBA may not been as popular as it is now, but I guarantee it was way more popular than MLS has been. You need a good base to start with, and the MLS just doesn't have that IMO.

[jedicurt]

Yeah this was kind of my point, I probably just didn't do a good job getting that.

I don't think we have the population to support a ton of different sports. I feel like even college basketball support has slowed down due to the Thunder.

And the NBA may not been as popular as it is now, but I guarantee it was way more popular than MLS has been. You need a good base to start with, and the MLS just doesn't have that IMO.

and that is why i'm more inclined to support projects that have a more immediate impact. like streetcar expansion, more sidewalks, walking trails, bike lanes and bike trails, the arena at the state fair... sure that one won't be as pretty as a soccer stadium, but it will be used significantly more and provide much more of an economic impact

[Pete]

^

And projects that encourage people to walk and ride their bikes and recreate rather than just sit around watching other people play sports.

[hfry]

What I think will be interesting is maps 3 was 777 million. Now assuming they want an reasonable increase in collection I'm guessing maps 4 will be at or over 1 billion. The big 5 projects of maps 3 was 667 million so in essence 85% of the total budget give or take a little on the math. What big time projects are going to be game changing that add up to almost a billion dollars. We know they are already pushing the soccer stadium but it's price if done correctly won't come close to some of the big projects from Maps 3. I'm sure they will have something for the river and fairgrounds again but trails and all these improvements which I'm sure they will include won't be a drop in the bucket to the overal budget unless they go all out which I don't see them doing.

[Zuplar]

You know I wouldn’t be opposed to waiting on a MAPS 4. Maybe let these projects we got going on get complete and see what our needs are in 3-4 years after we’ve had time to use the park, time to itilize the streetcar, etc. maybe what we’ll want to invest in after we’ve had time to use what we’ve invested in opinions may change.

Plus I’d like to see how the private sector responds to these projects. Just a thought.

[OKCRT]

The only way a soccer stadium should be built is with a promise of MLS team. You don't build a 100-200 mil. major league stadium for anything less IMO. They would be nuts if they built that type of a stadium for the minors. The minors play in a 10 mil. dollar stadium. I assume when I hear maps for stadium talk it's for a first class major league stadium. Plus STL just put forth a privately funded soccer stadium for an mls team and it's sure to get the nod. I believe it will be built by some billionaire Enterprise Car rental and World Wide Tech folks. Deep pocketed people.

[catch22]

Well I won’t be voting for or against, but I hope that it is a well balanced ballot that includes things that benefits many different interests.

[mugofbeer]

Like all other US cities, OKC has a significant hispanic and Asian population. Do you know with certainty THEY don't want a nice soccer stadium? They can have multiple uses, not just soccer.

Hey! You all DO realize thrre are tens of thousands of Asians and Hispanics that place soccer far above American football? They can't rely on a multi-gazillionaire to build a soccer stadium. Even though you may not love soccer, stop and think there is a significant portion of the population that does.

[mugofbeer]

The cost to build a 20k seat stadium in OKC would be more like $80 - 85 million, not $200m if built, say, on the south side of the Fairgrounds and not on the Cotton Gin site

[OKCRT]

The cost to build a 20k seat stadium in OKC would be more like $80 - 85 million, not $200m if built, say, on the south side of the Fairgrounds and not on the Cotton Gin site

Prob. well over 120 mil by the time it was built and you don't spend that kind of jack on minor league soccer.

[Johnb911]

I am not trying to be pro or con on a soccer stadium, but I wanted to point out, the NBA wasn't popular in OKC before the Thunder. Minor league hockey used to be incredibly popular in OKC and isn't anymore. Saying that MLS (which is obviously a long shot) wouldn't be popular because it isn't now doesn't jive with how sports have always worked in OKC. If you put a good product and the market is there then MLS soccer could be successful even if it's not now. Also, building a stadium downtown with amenities like restaurants and bars around it is not comparable to Taft Stadium or other options in the metro. If OKC had a real chance at getting an MLS team I think it would be successful. Even upgrading to a new stadium near downtown could lead to a lot of success for the Energy. Of course, even the MLS will never be as popular as the NBA in OKC, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be a success. I just think there's been a lot of strawmen set up and knocked down in this thread. But, to be clear, I'm not arguing that a soccer stadium is the best item for MAPS 4. I'll leave that to others.

I'm not pro-stadium. If we didn't already have a venue like taft which could be used to host big time high school football games, I'd probably be more inclined. But to argue that we don't want one because lots of people here watch Premier League over MLS is silly. Of course they do. We don't have an MLS team. Go to Kansas City. Go to Orlando or Atlanta or Seattle or Portland or Toronto or Columbus or Sacramento or Nashville. Ask them if they only pay attention to the European leagues and don't support MLS.

[TheSteveHunt]

Lets raise some big bucks, start a shady hedge-fund with it, and turn OKC into a Dubai style paradise in preparation for the upcoming apocalyptic version of America!

[David]

I'm very mixed on the soccer stadium on account of the worry that the city pushing it too hard may sink the entire ballot, but if there is good public support for it then sure. I'll be curious to see if any polling looks like for this once they narrow down the items.

Personally I'm pushing for more streetcar track, with a focus on a line down to Capital Hill as the #1 destination. Hey, maybe even find a spot down by Wiley Post Park to put the soccer stadium and make sure to run the streetcar extension by it.

[jedicurt]

Lets raise some big bucks, start a shady hedge-fund with it, and turn OKC into a Dubai style paradise in preparation for the upcoming apocalyptic version of America!

thank you as always for your insight and contributions to a topic discussion

[gopokes88]

I think you guys are wayyyyyyy over estimating the cost of a soccer stadium. It will be around $60million and built so it can be upgraded and expanded easily for MLS or if USL becomes the premier league.

They’ll design and build it to the quality of a Texas high school football stadium. That’s about what those are running.

[Pete]

^

Yes, but this will be built on land in the core, not some suburban field already owned by a school district.

Land alone for a project this size would be very high (both acquisition and required infrastructure), which is why the Energy have been considering setting up temporary shop in Chisholm Creek.