Ideas 4 MAPS

[gopokes88]

Ah now it makes sense.

The Aquarium was never given a public hearing because the aquarium was never going to be on the ballot. The hearings were somehwat a dog and pony show. If everything that got a hearing gets on the ballot it was just a PR stunt.

[checkthat]

Absolutely. The public hearings and comments bore zero fruit. Not a single proposal was altered based on the hearings. Why pretend that there is an open and transparent process with surveys and endless meetings when everything was already decided? Will this resolution be unanimously approved by the council?

[jedicurt]

So basically, whoever decided that those 16 projects deserved an official presentation also decided the final slate.

so they didn't really give any others a chance... hence why the zoo wasn't able to present

[jonny d]

Absolutely. The public hearings and comments bore zero fruit. Not a single proposal was altered based on the hearings. Why pretend that there is an open and transparent process with surveys and endless meetings when everything was already decided? Will this resolution be unanimously approved by the council?

Or maybe no one really had any major, material differences with the projects as shown?

[catch22]

Ah now it makes sense.

The Aquarium was never given a public hearing because the aquarium was never going to be on the ballot. The hearings were somehwat a dog and pony show. If everything that got a hearing gets on the ballot it was just a PR stunt.

The more Oklahoma City changes the more it stays the same.

[TheTravellers]

Hey Mayor Holt, I know you're on OKCTalk, care to respond to any of this?

[OKCRT]

Hey Mayor Holt, I know you're on OKCTalk, care to respond to any of this?

Why wouldn't they want this on MAPS when this would be the best bang for the buck out of any other project they are promoting IMO? Maybe this wouldn't benefit some of the special people but it would def. benefit OKC taxpayers. A world class Aquarium would bring more people downtown spending money the day it opened. This is a no brainer IMO. Build the thing!

[emtefury]

I may be naive, but I don’t see this passing. The social centers are not a help. A question I have to research is, does the city have the operating funds to staff and operate all of the proposed centers?

The only thing that can help, which annoys me, is the election is 10 Dec when 15% of the registered voters will vote.

[emtefury]

If you want a pulse of the town, check out the posts on next door. Refresh after this evening when people get home from work.

https://nextdoor.com/news_feed/?post=121712164

[Laramie]

Proposed allocations in millions

Parks $77
Youth Centers $110
Senior Wellness Centers $30
Mental Health and Addiction $40
Family Justice Center operated by Palomar $38 request $37 +1 million
Transit $87 request $87 million
Sidewalks, bike lanes, trails and streetlights $87 ($20 million, Bike Walk OKC Plan)
Homelessness $50 asked for $40 received +$10 million
Chesapeake Energy Arena and practice facilities $115 request - $135 -$20 million
Animal Shelter $38 requested $40 -$2 million less
Fairgrounds Coliseum $63 +25 million Hotel/Motel Tax = $88 million, request $97million -9 million + MAPS 3 excess funds, naming rights and other sources

Diversion Hub $17 request $18 million -$1 million less
Innovation District $71, $25 million for connectivity request $100 million
It is the intent of the Council to further allocate $10 million for the purpose of
matching up to $10 million raised from non-MAPS sources for an “innovation hall”
and related infrastructure where activities to grow our city’s innovation economy can
be facilitated. +6 million

Freedom Center and Clara Luper Civil Rights Center $25millon, request - $25 million
Beautification $30
Multipurpose Stadium $37 Requested $72 million -35 million less

IMO: A fair process for what those figures will address. Most money for community & neighborhood projects.

[Pete]

If you want a pulse of the town, check out the posts on next door. Refresh after this evening when people get home from work.

https://nextdoor.com/news_feed/?post=121712164

Oh my.

When I start to feel OKCTalk is a little too salty, I just spend a little time on NextDoor and then I feel much better.

[Richard at Remax]

Nextdoor always makes me feel better about myself when I'm down.

Back to MAPS 4, I just can't see this passing. Seems like there are too many items that are too divisive and they will have to go back to the drawing board. Two that stand out are stadium and state fair arena.

It's no secret I am against the stadium. To have it thrown in there at $37 million when the owners can build that themselves seems like an insult. What if they want to expand? Will the ask for another handout? MAPS for TIER 10 Soccer?

[BoulderSooner]

So basically, whoever decided that those 16 projects deserved an official presentation also decided the final slate.

This is correct and should be shouted from the roof. This is the first maps I will not support. It is not for the betterment of OKC

[Pete]

Keep in mind there is nothing to stop the stadium from going after a big chunk of TIF or other public funding.

I suppose that could happen with or without MAPS money.

[Plutonic Panda]

What is the deal with Nextdoor? Are the people there rude? I just signed up to view my neighborhood in Edmond and it is fine. I haven't checked my neighborhood in Hollywood.

[jonny d]

What project here inherently sets OKC back? Not a single da** one. Quit acting like they are having stupid, worthless projects being proposed. Goodness gracious, people. All of these will help OKC immensely. Be better.

[Ed Shadid]

Here is an important caveat in the resolution:

"As an implementation plan is developed for the capital projects, and to accommodate inflationary adjustments and maintain equity between distinct portions of a project that may be completed at different times, the Citizens Advisory Board is authorized to recommend deviation from these allocations by up to 10 percent below or 20 percent above the allocation."

[OKC Guy]

Here is an important caveat in the resolution:

"As an implementation plan is developed for the capital projects, and to accommodate inflationary adjustments and maintain equity between distinct portions of a project that may be completed at different times, the Citizens Advisory Board is authorized to recommend deviation from these allocations by up to 10 percent below or 20 percent above the allocation."

Wow, so $200,000,000 above to $100,000,000 below? If the MAPS is $1B thats a lot of swing.

This will be my first no vote they need to scale MAPS down into 2 year increments at $200M per cycle. This allows city to adjust to changing dynamics faster. If Aquarium is popular but not in this MAPS its 10 years to wait to vote again plus years to build of approved. Smaller projects helps change faster since we’d have smaller more focused voting.

I’m against expanding streetcar but my distractors will appreciate this thinking from me. If we scale MAPS to 2 year cycles and if SC takes off and does great, having another MAPS in 2 or 4 years would allow is to expand it faster. If it works I am not against it but now with 10 year MAPS cycles we cannot adapt to changes. The CC/OMNI/Park open up this and next year and what if they increase SC use massively and we realize an expansion would be in order? With 10 year MAPS cycles we can’t even consider it. This goes for everything. I voted for all prior MAPS but these were transformative projects. This one seems like they are (and have been) trying to dream up projects and have no plan. Its now late Aug and mo one really knows what will be in MAPS 4 and its being rushed fo vote in Nov.

I am totally turned off with MAPS 4 process and projects.

[BoulderSooner]

This was the least public process of any of the maps programs. This has the city spending money on state and federal mandates And then throwing money at a soccer stadium that is a money grab

[Southsider2]

I ask this question out of ignorance. What happens after this MAPS (assuming it passes) runs its course, pertaining to things such as mental health, homelessness, drug abuse etc. Are the items that tackle these issues permanent or are they just something that will improve us in these areas until they’re no longer funded?

[RedDollar]

I ask this question out of ignorance. What happens after this MAPS (assuming it passes) runs its course, pertaining to things such as mental health, homelessness, drug abuse etc. Are the items that tackle these issues permanent or are they just something that will improve us in these areas until they’re no longer funded?

That is the Pandora's Box that this opens.

City has no business in social programs. There's already trillions of dollars spent at Fed and State levels on social programs, that btw, have dubious records of success.

If this list of projects had been run before the voters in 1993, these ideas would've been laughed out of town.

MAPS has run its course. The City would be far better served with a lower sales tax rate.

[hoya]

Proposed allocations in millions

Parks $77
Youth Centers $110
Senior Wellness Centers $30
Mental Health and Addiction $40
Family Justice Center operated by Palomar $38
Transit $87
Sidewalks, bike lanes, trails and streetlights $87
Homelessness $50
Chesapeake Energy Arena and practice facilities $115
Animal Shelter $38
Fairgrounds Coliseum $63
Diversion Hub $17
Innovation District $71
Freedom Center and Clara Luper Civil Rights Center $25
Beautification $30
Multipurpose Stadium $37

Well... that list is a total and complete waste.

[Southsider2]

That is the Pandora's Box that this opens.

City has no business in social programs. There's already trillions of dollars spent at Fed and State levels on social programs, that btw, have dubious records of success.

If this list of projects had been run before the voters in 1993, these ideas would've been laughed out of town.

MAPS has run its course. The City would be far better served with a lower sales tax rate.

RedDollar, thank you for the response. That has been my biggest question for this whole package.

In a sense it seems like we’re trying to solve never ending problems with a package (Tax) that has an end date. While I recognize that some of these programs are needed I’ve been confused as to why MAPS is the vehicle to do it.

[OKC Guy]

That is the Pandora's Box that this opens.

City has no business in social programs. There's already trillions of dollars spent at Fed and State levels on social programs, that btw, have dubious records of success.

If this list of projects had been run before the voters in 1993, these ideas would've been laughed out of town.

MAPS has run its course. The City would be far better served with a lower sales tax rate.

Great response. I read yesterday Seattle has spent an avg of $30,000 on each homeless person and the problem is worse now than even 5 years ago. We would need to have a serious discussion on how to beat tackle social issues not just slam it in MAPS and assume that fixes or even helps it.

And every MAPS completed project requires an ever increasing amount of upkeep cost. Do people think the CC is going to last 30 years and we spend zero dollars keeping it up. Streetcar too. Stadium. Park. Canal. And on and on. All prior completions need upkeep cost and the more projects the more upkeep cost. We need to be smart in what we add and how to pay for upkeep. Those costs are not really being addressed properly in my opinion. What if in 6 years we have to spend $30,000,000 to replace some street cars? No one wants to figure out we taxpayers have to pay one way or another. Being smart going forward is better than just dreaming up pet projects like MAPS 4 is looking.

[Rover]

Absolutely. The public hearings and comments bore zero fruit. Not a single proposal was altered based on the hearings. Why pretend that there is an open and transparent process with surveys and endless meetings when everything was already decided? Will this resolution be unanimously approved by the council?

And you say this because your pet projects aren’t part of it?