Ideas 4 MAPS

[Laramie]

Plutonic Panda has a suggestion on the MAPS 4 Stadium development thread--Crossroads Mall (Site #4): https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=44923&page=14

Is Crossroads Mall dead for future development?

Good potential with surface parking and established infrastructure support.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ along the future OKC-HWY 9(Norman) Commuter route. This area is prime for a station ��

[d-usa]

I like a central location because it’s central.

But this would be a spot that has okay access (not great but maybe something that could be addressed as they work on the interchange), some entertainment options that would be available to serve the people attending events there, and I would think that maybe there would be less cost for site preparation. The area could benefit from the stimulus as well.

[Ross MacLochness]

While I understand the need for surface parking for a stadium such as this, it would be great if at least one side abutted some good walkable urban fabric allowing pre and post game shenanigans that didn't require one to drive.

[d-usa]

A nice pedestrian plaza on one end.

[Johnb911]

Cusack Meat is going to want $1.5B for their lot though...

[Laramie]

Cusack Meat is going to want $1.5B for their lot though...

$1.5 million for that building; that's why the city preferred to build around it--would have included the costly expenses associated with relocation

Believe they're looking at the Crossroad Mall site for the stadium; Pete mentioned the non acquired parcels left in the lower park will be cost prohibitive & time-consuming.

[Johnb911]

$1.5 million for that building; that's why the city preferred to build around it--would have included the costly expenses associated with relocation

Believe they're looking at the Crossroad Mall site for the stadium; Pete mentioned the non acquired parcels left in the lower park will be cost prohibitive & time-consuming.

It was a joke. They wanted that money for their turn around lot. The building would be 1000 times more expensive.

[shawnw]

Crossroads as the notional stadium site might be one of my favorite pluplan ideas ever.

[Plutonic Panda]

Crossroads as the notional stadium site might be one of my favorite pluplan ideas ever.

Dang man, I was sure you would have at least nominated my 50 lane I-35 plan.

[Goon]

IMO you would not be helping the community to the south of the river by taking away that pretty, highly-used park so some rich guys can get a soccer stadium with tons of surface parking.

That’s fair, but building another rich white playground in the middle of the city with tax dollars paid by a multitude who live outside the CBD does little to further the #1OKC vision and tells anyone who lives south that they aren’t worthy of consideration.

People who think “we must build in the city center or it’s not relevant” are the problem, not the solution. I’m becoming more sold on the idea that we don’t need the stadium under these conditions.

[Midtowner]

The whole point of putting the stadium in South OKC particularly south of the river is to SPUR DEVELOPMENT. We need to give Capitol Hill, Stockyards and the Farmers Market a giant shot in the arm with public investment. Much in the same way NE OKC is benefiting from the Innovation District and Adventure District. Very simple concept. See Maps 1 & 3. Canal, ballpark, streetcar, library, the Peake, Central Park, convention center and whitewater facility have all transformed there immediate areas and have caused billions of additional private investment.

If what we're shooting for is residential development, how is that cause served by plunking down a venue where we can have 18-20 loud games and maybe as many LOUD concerts per year? Lost Lake isn't even near the size of what we're talking about and they've had to severely curtail their use because of noise complaints--and those noise complaints are not from folks who have paid upwards of $400/sq ft for their accommodations.

[Laramie]

Lost Lake Amphitheater complaints were for noise after 11 p.m. - 12 a.m., and later:

OKCTalk thread: https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=42199

Media: https://kfor.com/2017/05/19/city-cou...ncerts-a-year/

Don't know of any outdoor sporting event in the Oklahoma City area that extends beyond 10:30 p.m. , doubt if any soccer or minor league football games will last past 10 p.m. on the average.

[SEMIweather]

Energy home games currently finish up around 10 p.m.

[OKC Guy]

Austin has a noise map based on complaints. There are several cities with noise issues so this will have to be addressed (concerts)

http://www.lifeaustinnoise.org/

Good thing about their map is you can see the typical range in distance of most complaints to get an idea of how far complaints will come from

[Laramie]

Anyone with knowledge as to the date OKC will reveal the MAPS 4 project plans that will go before the voters in December as a single initiative:

Projects to be funded by proposed MAPS 3 sales tax revenue are only identified as city "capital improvements” in the ballot. Specifics of the $777 million MAPS 3 proposal aren’t listed on the ballot.--Oklahoman, September 29, 2009

Projects will be identified, probably in September 2019; there will not be a project listing on the ballot if they use the same ballot format in MAPS 3.

[soonerguru]

The projects will be identified way before that.

[shawnw]

https://oklahoman.com/article/563910...-to-the-people

Vote as soon as 10 December

[Pete]

I've been hearing the council may vote on the slate of projects as early as next Tuesday.

There are going to be lots of tough choices and I know Holt has been trying to negotiate support from the council behind the scenes, trying to satisfy the chamber (who finances the MAPS election campaign) and the new progressives, like Jo Beth Hamon, who want to focus on social services.

[Pete]

The sad part about all this is by the time it gets to the council's public meeting, they will have already likely decided on the slate.

By the time they vote, Holt will already have the votes needed for the slate to pass.

[OKCRT]

The sad part about all this is by the time it gets to the council's public meeting, they will have already likely decided on the slate.

By the time they vote, Holt will already have the votes needed for the slate to pass.

I know that these stadiums/arenas only take up a smaller % of MAPS money but it might just kill MAPS all together. That is my fear. I am all for MAPS but they might just kill the Golden Goose

[jonny d]

OKCTalk is a very small, vocal minority. Most people in OKC who will vote on this don't care about most of the complaints this site has. They don't care about looks, and are more function over form. I wish more followed sites like this, but most in OKC don't, and aside from a casual knowledge of Maps 4 projects, will vote for a new stadium and coliseum and not bat an eyelash.

[Pete]

^

Remember though that more than one professional poll has taken a cross-section of likely voters an found the stadium to be very unpopular.

So don't be so sure that plus a couple of things that a voter may not like might be enough to vote against and for all the success of MAPS, all the final votes have been relatively close. Doesn't take a lot to tip things in the other direction.


Having said all that, I expect MAPS 4 to pass. But I also think it's far from a sure thing.

[Laramie]

There were 16 projects presented for MAPS 4 (based on my research) estimated to cost $900-$950 million, listed the highest figure presented in those proposals; what's missing/also are those figures listed correct or need to be updated . . .

Figures listed in millions
$_40 - Animal Shelter
$(-?-) - Bike Lanes
$_88 - Bus Transit ($87.2)
$135 - Chesapeake Energy Arena enhancements
$_18 - Diversion Hub
$_37 - Family Justice Center (Palomar)
$_25 - Freedom Center
$_40 - Homeless Housing
$100 - Innovation Link
$(-?-) - Mental Health Facility
$_72 - Multipurpose Stadium
$120 - State Fair Coliseum
$(-?-) - Sidewalks
$(-?-) - Trails
$(-?-) - unidentified project
$(-?-) - unidentified project

Ten project identified comes to $675 million in projects based on proposals presented so far. What other projects are missing along with figures (-?-).

Were any estimates or figures identified for the cost of Bike Lanes, Mental Health Facility, Sidewalks, Trails & other unidentified projects. Please help with updates and/or corrections.

[gopokes88]

The sad part about all this is by the time it gets to the council's public meeting, they will have already likely decided on the slate.

By the time they vote, Holt will already have the votes needed for the slate to pass.

But that’s like how govt works. Otherwise it’s an endless deadlocked debate. You cut deals in back rooms with some wine and a steak.

This process was for 1 far more transparent than previously and 2 it’s going to be significantly more focused on social projects than big capital projects. Especially when you compare % of money towards social versus capital previously.

That is incremental progress. In government, good can’t be the enemy of great, and you can’t reject incremental changes because it’s not wholesale vast change.