Ideas 4 MAPS

[Laramie]

We are talking about USL VS MLS. No one cares about minor league soccer and it would be a waste of tax payers money to build a stadium for that. They would draw a few thousand fans. MLS on the other hand would require a first class stadium and would def. have a much bigger draw. An MLS stadium downtown would prob. spur a lot of other development around it. So we are talking apples and oranges. So I would be in favor of an MLS stadium if that time comes.

We had minor league basketball (Oklahoma City Calvary); they drew a few thousand fans. You can't use a minor league franchise operation in a non regulation facility (Taft Stadium) in an area of town with no fan friendly amenities to gauge major league potential.

Hopefully, the stadium will go before the voters to decide. If you want to vote everything down because of one project on MAPS 4 you are against; then think about The Peake, the same argument about not being able to fill the Myriad was being made to remove the downtown arena from the original MAPS ballot.

[aDark]

The recent posts which don't support building the stadium are disheartening and, I fear, shortsighted. You don't have to like soccer to be supportive of building a multi-use field adjacent to OKC's greatest tourism destination. We need to develop the COOP property and this is a fantastic way to jump start it. It is not a "hand-out" the the Funks as the City will own it. This seems like a no-brainer to me and I hope it makes the cut for Maps 4. I similarly hope that those who don't support this aspect of the Maps 4 projects will see the whole Maps package and vote yes. OKC needs to invest in itself as the State of Oklahoma is not making it any easier for our city to make progress.

I dislike the proposed renovations to the fairgrounds as I don't think the board that runs the fairgrounds have been transparent or fair. That said, one or two ticket items that I don't agree with won't stop me from supporting Maps as a whole.

[d-usa]

I’m just always going back to thinking about a festival with performances at the new park, new stadium, the ballpark, and the many venues on the canal and in brick town.

[jn1780]

Should we just call MAPS 4: STADIUMS?

I think its a guarantee that Chesapeake Arena upgrades will be on the ballot. Its also pretty much a guarantee that a new Fairgrounds arena will also be on there. If a multipurpose soccer stadium is built that will be three Stadium related projects on one MAPS proposal. Doesn't seem like that leaves much room for other things.

[Urban Pioneer]

A big MAPS 4 takeaway today...

The grand plans for a massive highway cap over I-235 are DEAD.

Reasonable bridge yes. Floating albatross no.

[d-usa]

Should we just call MAPS 4: STADIUMS?

I think its a guarantee that Chesapeake Arena upgrades will be on the ballot. Its also pretty much a guarantee that a new Fairgrounds arena will also be on there. If a multipurpose soccer stadium is built that will be three Stadium related projects on one MAPS proposal. Doesn't seem like that leaves much room for other things.

All 3 together have a price tag of ~$300 million.

MAPS 3 had over $800 million, which would leave $500 million for other stuff. It’s reasonable to expect MAPS 4 to at least match that.

[OKCRT]

Should we just call MAPS 4: STADIUMS?

I think its a guarantee that Chesapeake Arena upgrades will be on the ballot. Its also pretty much a guarantee that a new Fairgrounds arena will also be on there. If a multipurpose soccer stadium is built that will be three Stadium related projects on one MAPS proposal. Doesn't seem like that leaves much room for other things.

I think MAPS for Stadiums is the perfect name for this. Actually the Fair Grounds arena would prob. be a better investment than the soccer stadium. Why not just build a all in one multi use arena/stadium for all?

[Pete]

All 3 together have a price tag of ~$300 million.

MAPS 3 had over $800 million, which would leave $500 million for other stuff. It’s reasonable to expect MAPS 4 to at least match that.

Yes, probably $900M +.

[Goon]

And you are greatly under-estimating the amount of events that could be held at a multipurpose stadium. Think outside the box. It can host more than just soccer, football, and concerts.

Its interesting then, how the main vocal support seems to only come from Funk and Energy, given all these other potential tenants the field would be used for.

There are many other pressing items that would benefit from MAPS 4 investment. Subsidizing a stadium now feels like an overreach. Especially at the price they're quoting.

[OKCRT]

Its interesting then, how the main vocal support seems to only come from Funk and Energy, given all these other potential tenants the field would be used for.

There are many other pressing items that would benefit from MAPS 4 investment. Subsidizing a stadium now feels like an overreach. Especially at the price they're quoting.

Maybe a 50/50 joint venture is in order

[Goon]

Should we just call MAPS 4: STADIUMS?

I think its a guarantee that Chesapeake Arena upgrades will be on the ballot. Its also pretty much a guarantee that a new Fairgrounds arena will also be on there. If a multipurpose soccer stadium is built that will be three Stadium related projects on one MAPS proposal. Doesn't seem like that leaves much room for other things.

Great point.

I'm no historian, but I assume the other MAPS proposals didn't have the same diversity of possible funding recipients as MAPS 4 currently boasts.

It will certainly be interesting.

[Goon]

Maybe a 50/50 joint venture is in order

Would certainly make for a more palatable offer to voters.

In the meantime, I'll be interested to see how well Funk's statements today that he would consider moving the Energy if their bid for a stadium is rejected for MAPS 4 inclusion will play...

[d-usa]

How much are the Thunder chipping in for the Peake?

[jedicurt]

How much are the Thunder chipping in for the Peake?

hahahahahahahahahah hahahahahahahahahhaha (breath) ahahahahahahahhaha

[shawnw]

The mayor made mention of expecting to be of similar duration and value to MAPS 3 today

[chuck5815]

Would certainly make for a more palatable offer to voters.

In the meantime, I'll be interested to see how well Funk's statements today that he would consider moving the Energy if their bid for a stadium is rejected for MAPS 4 inclusion will play...

lol. that's hilarious if he actually said that.

[Urban Pioneer]

The mayor made mention of expecting to be of similar duration and value to MAPS 3 today

I put this in the stadium thread but it seemed relevant here-

The way this is lining up is an overall MAPS proposal that is about 75% neighborhood and human needs and 25% arenas and stadiums if you use the low numbers. Neighborhood needs amounted to about 7% - 14% in MAPS 3 depending on how you define Senior Wellness Centers.

They are looking at approximately $950 million in accrued sales taxes to pay for this.

[mattyiceokc]

Its interesting then, how the main vocal support seems to only come from Funk and Energy, given all these other potential tenants the field would be used for.

There are many other pressing items that would benefit from MAPS 4 investment. Subsidizing a stadium now feels like an overreach. Especially at the price they're quoting.

There were plenty of people at the meeting today that voiced support about the stadium and the events their organizations could host there.

https://twitter.com/James_Poling/sta...95067571806208
https://twitter.com/James_Poling/sta...98449892089861
https://twitter.com/James_Poling/sta...00082386505735
https://twitter.com/James_Poling/sta...06840236490753
https://twitter.com/James_Poling/sta...09416164134913

[BoulderSooner]

Alright, since people are still equating minor league baseball with USL soccer, lets go ahead and break it down.

Lets take the OKC Dodgers. Every single player on the OKC Dodgers has a contract with the LA Dodgers. The LA Dodgers control where each player plays within their farm club system. The OKC Dodgers have ZERO control over what players are on the team.

The Energy are completely different from this. Each player on the Energy is under contract with the Energy. The Energy have complete control over their roster. Also, the USL has a partnership with MLS, but it still operates completely independent of the MLS and makes decisions based on whats best for the USL, not MLS. Yes, some MLS teams operate in the same league as the Energy (USL Championship, or Division 2). There is a big push among all of the independent clubs in USL (which make up more than 50 percent of the league) to force all of the MLS owned teams down into USL League One (aka Division 3).


There is no such thing as minor league in soccer. Honestly, minor league is term that should only be used for baseball, or other leagues that are branded as a developmental league (such as the NBA G League). USL is not a developmental league. The goal for a majority of the teams (excluding some of the MLS teams) is to win a championship with the best players available, regardless of player age. Developmental leagues like minor league baseball and NBA G-League focus on player development of young athletes instead of winning championships.

Oh, and of the 36 USL Championship teams, only 9 are owned by MLS teams. So I wouldn't say that "lots" or USL teams are the minor league teams of MLS. Other teams may be "affiliated" with a MLS team like OKC used to be with Sporting KC and FC Dallas, but it still is completely different than minor league baseball. When OKC was affiliated with FC Dallas for instance, they would loan us 2 or 3 players off and on for the season to play with us, but it was only done if it was a good fit for both teams. FC Dallas routinely would loan players out to other USL clubs, even when they were affiliated with us.

what you described is exaclty what a said ..... however minor leage is not just for baseball it describes any league that is not the top league ... as i said the usl is not THE minor legue of the MLS but it is with out a doubt a MINOR LEAGUE ORG as in less than the MLS

under your logic the new XFL wouldnt' be a minor legue which is crazy

[mattyiceokc]

what you described is exaclty what a said ..... however minor leage is not just for baseball it describes any league that is not the top league ... as i said the usl is not THE minor legue of the MLS but it is with out a doubt a MINOR LEAGUE ORG as in less than the MLS

under your logic the new XFL wouldnt' be a minor legue which is crazy

Alright, so a league has to be the top league to not be a minor league. Well, I guess MLS and all but one of the European soccer leagues are now considered minor league since only 1 can be the top league. What a ridiculous argument. Minor leagues are leagues run by the top league for player development purposes (Like MILB and NBA G-League). Independent leagues aren't a minor league. Just because it isn't the best league in that sport, doesnt make it a minor league. The term minor league is used by people to diminish a league or team, like many of the posters here in their arguments against a stadium. I get it, the only minor league that really had a presence in America for the longest time was MILB, so people tend to call all smaller leagues a minor league, but that just isnt the case. There is a fundamental difference between USL and the minor leagues in baseball and basketball

[okccowan]

Energy should not be mentioning MLS at all as a reason for this stadium, unless they sign a document showing they can get the funding for an MLS expansion fee ($250 million presently)

[Goon]

lol. that's hilarious if he actually said that.

He did.

[Goon]

There were plenty of people at the meeting today that voiced support about the stadium and the events their organizations could host there.

https://twitter.com/James_Poling/sta...95067571806208
https://twitter.com/James_Poling/sta...98449892089861
https://twitter.com/James_Poling/sta...00082386505735
https://twitter.com/James_Poling/sta...06840236490753
https://twitter.com/James_Poling/sta...09416164134913

I must have missed all those organizations giving out scarves, investing in email marketing and gathering supporters for the meeting in the sea of Energy yesterday. My apologies.

[Jersey Boss]

Alright, so a league has to be the top league to not be a minor league. Well, I guess MLS and all but one of the European soccer leagues are now considered minor league since only 1 can be the top league. What a ridiculous argument. Minor leagues are leagues run by the top league for player development purposes (Like MILB and NBA G-League). Independent leagues aren't a minor league. Just because it isn't the best league in that sport, doesnt make it a minor league. The term minor league is used by people to diminish a league or team, like many of the posters here in their arguments against a stadium. I get it, the only minor league that really had a presence in America for the longest time was MILB, so people tend to call all smaller leagues a minor league, but that just isnt the case. There is a fundamental difference between USL and the minor leagues in baseball and basketball

Anecdotally I Googled "minor league soccer" and the first entry is USL. If it walks like a duck...
And no minor league is not defined as a league for the development of players at a major league level. The most recent CHL Blazer team being an example.

[BoulderSooner]

Anecdotally I Googled "minor league soccer" and the first entry is USL. If it walks like a duck...
And no minor league is not defined as a league for the development of players at a major league level. The most recent CHL Blazer team being an example.

this