RFP south of arena

[Colbafone]

Really cool design. Seems everyone likes it.

But then there is a Certified Randy Hogan Surface Lot AND they want TIF? 1 foot forward, 2 steps back.

[bigjkt405]

I won't be shocked if the Thunder ownership buy these two and make it a pre/post game gathering place. Think something like Champions Square in New Orleans outside the Superdome.

Winner winner chicken dinner

[DallasOkie086]

I absolutely hate it. What is in the arrowhead? Is that a brewery? I dont really understand just making it a huge bball court. There should be seating and space for a live performer. The parking makes sense but why not evaluate those spaces above a small retail space?

[OKC Guy]

I don’t see the big deal about parking? Why are so many against parking here? We are not NYC we are OK. People here drive to events from our wide sprawling city. Some here are not looking long term. Once that whole area is built out parking will be needed. Not all can park at convention. This is close to new park and will make a nice lot to park and take it in.

I like the concept my only worry is the open yet covered part will be a homeless gathering spot after hours.

[jn1780]

I wonder if the parking is more about reserving space for things like inflatables,pop up tents, broadcast vehicle parking for games and other arena events.

[Ross MacLochness]

^^^Because parking is like crack. How do you get off crack? You stop taking it. Unfortunately your body still craves crack as it has adapted itself to need it. It will really hurt for a while because your body needs crack to function properly but eventually your body re-adjusts and that insatiable need lessens and lessens until you don't need it any more. However, if you keep taking crack, you find that you need more and more of it until you eventually die.

[Rover]

Isn’t there supposed to be a large globe sculpture on the caddy corner? It would be odd having two similar pieces on opposite sides of the same corner.


And ditto on nixing the surface parking at a key corner. Just stupid planning.

Does anybody at Hogan have a clue? This is slated for directly caddy corner across the intersection. This is According to Oklahoman Article:

[Ross MacLochness]

I wonder if the parking is more about reserving space for things like inflatables,pop up tents, broadcast vehicle parking for games and other arena events.

I was thinking the same thing. Someone upthread mentioned a lack of a stage for performers but maybe this lot can be used for that. However, I'm more inclined to believe its there because Hogan. I generally like the idea of this proposal however.

[Pete]

From the proposal:

The parking for the development will not be detraction due to its location on the east end of the property, as well a landscaped hedge. The parking area will also be used as an off loading and parking site for the trucks that move traveling shows from Arena to Arena. For example, U2 has not come to OKC because our arena does not have room to park the 16-18 semi-trucks that support their show. The BOK in Tulsa, on the other hand, has hosted them because they can park their vehicles. The parking area may also host food truck events, street basketball events, and other temporary events.

[Ross MacLochness]

^^makes sense. Thanks

[OKC Guy]

^^^Because parking is like crack. How do you get off crack? You stop taking it. Unfortunately your body still craves crack as it has adapted itself to need it. It will really hurt for a while because your body needs crack to function properly but eventually your body re-adjusts and that insatiable need lessens and lessens until you don't need it any more. However, if you keep taking crack, you find that you need more and more of it until you eventually die.

You completely dodged the issue with your wise cracks.

Not everyone can or wants to live downtown. This lot can be useful long term. Even as a spill over from OMNI. Or VIP for OMNI. Or new park events. Lots of things. I fail to see all the validity of complaints that parking is ruining our utopia. Ample and easy parking encourages more folks to come and spend money downtown.

[Ross MacLochness]

^^I guess you don't understand my analogy. I understand your perspective and know that what you are saying is true for many if not most in this city. My point is that the reason this is the case is because of how bad our land use has been over the past 60-70 years. Parking is required because we've built our city that way. But parking in and of itself has no value (are the most famous cities in the world famous for ample parking?) other than to serve the terrible land use that has literally torn our city apart and made us less financially sustainable over the long term. My analogy to crack stands because a body can't function without it in the same way that our city can't function without parking. It's much easier to take more crack than it is to go to rehab and it's much easier to continue to build parking than it is to try to reverse the trend. We need to be focusing on alternate modes of transportation rather than just mindlessly building more parking. (edited to provide more explanation. Sorry to derail the thread somewhat)

[Sooner.Arch]

The design is terrible imo.

The bucks just recently completed this beer garden. The factor that people think the surface lot is a good idea is crazy to me. I don’t understand the design, I don’t understand the parking lot. And knowing there is a massive sculpture across the street makes me not understand why there is another giant one here. It’s all hilarious and in my opinion a joke of a proposal

[David]

Maybe with some tweaks. As Rover has posted the sculpture seems repetitive, and the TIF request is way unacceptable. These guys already have all the big bucks, not everyone who comes to the city with their hand out needs to have tax dollars slapped down in it.

On the other hand, given Pete's quote about the traveling show requirements, the parking is endurable given what it potentially enables.

[GoGators]

Ample and easy parking encourages more folks to come and spend money downtown.

Yikes

[BoulderSooner]

From the proposal:

If that is a legit need then I could get on board with the parking lot.

[king183]

From the proposal:

This seems absurd on its face. Not only am I skeptical that's *the* reason they don't come here, but but even if it were, we're going to endorse ****ty urban land use so we can attract U2? Give me a break. Plenty of other major bands/solo acts have found a solution to the supposed lack of parking for their equipment trailers. Beyonce, Carrie Underwood, Toby Keith, Garth Brooks, Jay-Z all seemed to make it work somehow (Garth Brooks had a massive, multi-day production). That justification is using our inferiority complex to their advantage.

Point blank: the parking is terrible land use and could be put to a much more productive, better urban use. It's almost embarrassing how some in our city cannot conceive a world without gobs of surface parking.

[Sooner.Arch]

It's almost embarrassing how some in our city cannot conceive a world without gobs of surface parking.

100% agree. Its really embarrassing. Almost makes you wonder if people even get out of this state, or better yet the South, to see how major cities handle parking.

[sooner88]

I think we get less stadium concerts than Tulsa due to Thunder blacking out large amount of dates for CHK, less due to parking for their production.

We've had and continue to have plenty of concerts with complex and extensive production that have figured out parking.

[chuck5815]

This seems absurd on its face. Not only am I skeptical that's *the* reason they don't come here, but but even if it were, we're going to endorse ****ty urban land use so we can attract U2? Give me a break. Plenty of other major bands/solo acts have found a solution to the supposed lack of parking for their equipment trailers. Beyonce, Carrie Underwood, Toby Keith, Garth Brooks, Jay-Z all seemed to make it work somehow (Garth Brooks had a massive, multi-day production). That justification is using our inferiority complex to their advantage.

Point blank: the parking is terrible land use and could be put to a much more productive, better urban use. It's almost embarrassing how some in our city cannot conceive a world without gobs of surface parking.

To be fair, most of them either (a) own oil and gas companies or (b) own considerable interests in oil and gas wells that flow many barrels per day. These folks have a STRONG vested interest in creating a city that favors the ICE powered automobile over almost any other consideration.

And I think Exhibit A is the Street Car. It is more of a toy train than a legitimate form of public transportation, and that is because the powers that be have no real interest in fostering public transport.

[jdg78]

Betcha they sale the 70 spots on thunder games for at least $30 bucks per spot. $86,100 per season not including other events. Plus, you know the Thunder will lease out the space for food operators and alcohol sales. Hell of a deal. $1.25mm for land plus a $1.55mm dollar hand out and great revenue potential! I’m all in! We should give em 3mm just to ensure this a success. SARCASM

[baralheia]

You completely dodged the issue with your wise cracks.

Not everyone can or wants to live downtown. This lot can be useful long term. Even as a spill over from OMNI. Or VIP for OMNI. Or new park events. Lots of things. I fail to see all the validity of complaints that parking is ruining our utopia. Ample and easy parking encourages more folks to come and spend money downtown.

There is a parking garage immediately north of this proposal, on the east side of the 'Peake. There will also be a large parking garage literally across the street, just behind Boulevard Place. Only slightly further away, immediately west of the railroad viaduct, is a 100-ish space surface parking lot - and then a much larger surface parking lot immediately east of the tracks. There are also huge surface parking lots immediately west of the 'Peake. There's already ample and easy parking very close by, with more on the way. The parking lot in this project is superfluous and totally unnecessary for public parking. Even the Omni VIP parking argument doesn't work - the Omni has an underground parking level for valet parking. The justification for it that Pete posted (from the actual submitted proposal) is the only real actual need I can see for it, to be honest with you, but even then I don't think many shows tour with that many semis worth of stuff. I'm also slightly surprised that those semis couldn't be parked on one of the aforementioned lots, after they were unloaded at the underground docks in the arena. Maybe they want more security for their semis, but that surface lot won't honestly provide much of that - and with the new configuration of this area thanks to the Boulevard, that lot would have to be pretty big to accommodate 16-18 semis.

[BoulderSooner]

I think we get less stadium concerts than Tulsa due to Thunder blacking out large amount of dates for CHK, less due to parking for their production.

We've had and continue to have plenty of concerts with complex and extensive production that have figured out parking.

That we get less concerts is a myth

[jn1780]

If that is a legit need then I could get on board with the parking lot.

I don't know if the concert trailer reason is legit or not, but I highly doubt this is really about parking. 60 spaces is nothing really and the Thunder can easily afford parking nearby. I think this is intended to replace the current Thunder Alley that happens on Reno and they want space in reserve.

[dford2]

Sounded good until I read that Randy Hogan was involved!! Not impressed with anything he's had his hands on.