RFP south of arena

[BDP]

I absolutely hate it. What is in the arrowhead? Is that a brewery? I dont really understand just making it a huge bball court. There should be seating and space for a live performer.

I'm not sure I get it, either. The concept makes sense, but strange execution. I don't understand the big bball court either. If it were more like, say, Jones Assembly patio, or the thing the Bucs did, then I'd get it. And is this supposed to replace Reno as where they will do what's now Thunder Alley events, or is it supposed to be an additional alternative to pregame options?

[Southsider2]

To me, this development makes sense. With the new entrance to the arena being built on the southwest side of the building it makes sense for them to reconfigure Thunder Alley and make it front the boulevard. Purely speculation but this would also keep Reno from being closed during the games right?

[Pete]

Do we know if Larry Nichols recused himself from the decision?

OCURA hasn't voted on this yet.

[Colbafone]

I love all the people saying things like "that surface parking lot could become something in a few years, it's not so bad".

Yeah it could even become...a bigger surface lot.

Are you guys totally blind to both modern and historical OKC? how many surface lots, throughout ALL of downtown OKC are there? How many have been there for 20 years? 30 years? 70 years? The VAST majority of them are going to be there for another 70 years. We aren't growing THAT fast, and we also don't have that many people ready to invest that kind of money.

Building something new IS NOT EASY. And it's not cheap. I hate the lazy argument of "well, if COULD be something in 10 years". Yeah, well, the time is NOW. $10 million being spent on this right now. If we don't get our voices out right now on this, it's going to be built just like this and the surface lot will be there for all of our lifetimes. This is why we get up in arms about these crappy surface lots in downtown we don't need.

To sit and wait on something like this means to sit and wait 50+ years. You gotta think realistically. How often do we actually get someone dropping money on infill in OKC? It's not that often, even at our height of growth. And not only that, it's only about 4 or 5 people/groups/developers that build new things. And here we have a really cool infill project. Only for about 1/4 of the space to be dedicated parking. That's just awful.

I'd rather give them more TIF for a bigger more built our building, all the way east. There is absolutely no need for parking here.

[OKC Guy]

I love all the people saying things like "that surface parking lot could become something in a few years, it's not so bad".

Yeah it could even become...a bigger surface lot.

Are you guys totally blind to both modern and historical OKC? how many surface lots, throughout ALL of downtown OKC are there? How many have been there for 20 years? 30 years? 70 years? The VAST majority of them are going to be there for another 70 years. We aren't growing THAT fast, and we also don't have that many people ready to invest that kind of money.

Building something new IS NOT EASY. And it's not cheap. I hate the lazy argument of "well, if COULD be something in 10 years". Yeah, well, the time is NOW. $10 million being spent on this right now. If we don't get our voices out right now on this, it's going to be built just like this and the surface lot will be there for all of our lifetimes. This is why we get up in arms about these crappy surface lots in downtown we don't need.

To sit and wait on something like this means to sit and wait 50+ years. You gotta think realistically. How often do we actually get someone dropping money on infill in OKC? It's not that often, even at our height of growth. And not only that, it's only about 4 or 5 people/groups/developers that build new things. And here we have a really cool infill project. Only for about 1/4 of the space to be dedicated parking. That's just awful.

I'd rather give them more TIF for a bigger more built our building, all the way east. There is absolutely no need for parking here.

I love how some people want to spend other peoples money and get mad when the spenders don’t build to the non spenders standards.

Did you know there is a dock right next to the grass there now? No matter what people dream up its not a huge area and is constricted due to need to get trucks to dock. The sliver of land is not square either its a strip between road and dock/arena.

[jccouger]

What is this structure exactly? Just a covered patio with food truck outlets?

[onthestrip]

I love how some people want to spend other peoples money and get mad when the spenders don’t build to the non spenders standards.

Totally agree with this. Except when public land is up for an RFP and they are actually asking for public dollars. Thats when being critical is allowed.

What is this structure exactly? Just a covered patio with food truck outlets?

I've wondered the same. Wish there were more details whats in it. I certainly dont see why it would cost $10 million. At 18,000sf, thats $555 per square foot, and its mostly open air. Perhaps its inflated to make the TIF request not appear to be that big?

[dankrutka]

I love how some people want to spend other peoples money and get mad when the spenders don’t build to the non spenders standards.

Yeah, these millionaires are asking for TIF money. I hate that too.

[dankrutka]

The maybe-OKC-can-be-different-from-other-cities-and-build-surface-parking-lots-downtown argument is probably my favorite troll argument in OKCTalk in a while.

[OKC Guy]

Totally agree with this. Except when public land is up for an RFP and they are actually asking for public dollars. Thats when being critical is allowed.



I've wondered the same. Wish there were more details whats in it. I certainly dont see why it would cost $10 million. At 18,000sf, thats $555 per square foot, and its mostly open air. Perhaps its inflated to make the TIF request not appear to be that big?

Of all the MAPS projects building the Peake and acquiring Thunder has had the most bang for the buck by far. Thunder have done more for our growth than practically all other MAPS combined. And we are arguing over 74 parking spots on a sliver of grass.

[Pete]

This is a discussion forum.

If you don't like people debating these types of issues, then you should probably go elsewhere.

[dankrutka]

Of all the MAPS projects building the Peake and acquiring Thunder has had the most bang for the buck by far. Thunder have done more for our growth than practically all other MAPS combined. And we are arguing over 74 parking spots on a sliver of grass.

So your position is to give millionaires more handouts and build surface parking downtown because... the Thunder have been good for OKC? Not sure I'm following your civic or business rationale here.

[jccouger]

I've wondered the same. Wish there were more details whats in it. I certainly dont see why it would cost $10 million. At 18,000sf, thats $555 per square foot, and its mostly open air. Perhaps its inflated to make the TIF request not appear to be that big?

Yeah, I don't see where all the cost of construction is coming from which is where my original questions is stemming from. Looks pretty cheap other than the building closest to the Southwest corner, which I'm not really sure what that building is either. A merchandise fan shop perhaps?

[kevin lee]

I'm assuming the majority of the cost is for the basketball sculpture. The bean in Millennium Park in Chicago cost $11.5 million.

[bchris02]

I have a different opinion on parking lot complaints. It seems we want to be other cities and anything that does’t mimic them is declared anti city or urban failure.

I like our city and its ok to be different. I don’t want to be another cloned city I want to be OKC. We are so spread out and rely on cars to get everywhere. That does not make us a bad city except for those who want to change us into being just another large city. I don’t get all this complaining about parking lots at all. If you like other cities then move there.

The other point is not looking at the now but going forward. Its likely OMNI will protect their parking so no promises of using it especially game or event nights. Cox will be gone with its parking. The new park will need places for visitors to park too. And if we do end up with Soccer/stadium it won’t be too far. The area will grow out and parking will be a premium. Other than charging for Thunder games thats only 41+ nights a year. This will be good alt parking for other big downtown events. I think once park is done and surrounding buildings built out this parking will look like a smart advance planning.

I know some hate the thought of Thunder making money but if one looks at the residual value Thunder have added to growth of our city its enormous. Thunder have added more positive growth value than any other entity we’ve given TIF or other monies too. And we are all gonna complain about 74 parking spots lol.

OKC today is not the same as it was in the 1980s. We are in a different era of urban planning.

[Pete]

Here is the detailed budget from their RFP response:

[BoulderSooner]

I'm assuming the majority of the cost is for the basketball sculpture. The bean in Millennium Park in Chicago cost $11.5 million.

and there we go the public area cost is at least 1.4 mil and change

with that being the case i have no issue with the TIF


now the parking lot is an entirely different ??

[Ross MacLochness]

With these two spheres next to each other, I wonder if you were to take a picture at the proper angle if you could frame the Devon Tower in just the right way... Now that I think about it, I'm imagining a whole program... maybe we could call it the OKC Fertility tour. Start at Sack Lack in Scissortail park, head north to the two spherical sculptures, from there observe the proud and erect Devon Tower and finally, finish the tour at the Cock Ring and Shaft. More adventurous tourists can sign up for the extended tour which takes them up to 23rd street to witness the wondrous Clara Luper Columns.

[Ross MacLochness]

Here is the detailed budget from their RFP response:

Parking revenue is part of the business plan...................... sheesh.

[GoGators]

I don’t see the big deal about parking? Why are so many against parking here? We are not NYC we are OK. People here drive to events from our wide sprawling city. Some here are not looking long term. Once that whole area is built out parking will be needed. Not all can park at convention. This is close to new park and will make a nice lot to park and take it in.

Don't come into my neighborhood and demand a parking space for yourself on the off chance you may come downtown and i wont go to your neighborhood and demand density and walkability.

[BoulderSooner]

with the bridge to the peake and the plaza the public part of the project will cost more than their TIF ask ...

[Rover]

Don't come into my neighborhood and demand a parking space for yourself on the off chance you may come downtown and i wont go to your neighborhood and demand density and walkability.

This is a downtown public facility ... not yours personally. It’s this separationist attitude that turns people off to supporting downtown investment.

That said, I too am against this parking proposal.

[Pete]

None of this is public.

It's property they plan to buy and control.

Open space is not the same as public space. They can and will close it off when desired and will pocket all associated revenue.

[Rover]

Sorry... thought the city now owns it and is helping decide what goes there. Thought they were trying to enable something that enhances the public’s interest in the arena, convention center, park, boulevard, et al

[Pete]

Sorry... thought the city now owns it and is helping decide what goes there. Thought they were trying to enable something that enhances the public’s interest in the arena, convention center, park, boulevard, et al

Was referring to BoulderSooner's post, not yours. We cross-posted.