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  1. Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    It's just south of downtown, which ain't the greatest. And it's right next to the Dallas PD. The area is experiencing quite a bit of gentrification though as of late.

    Apparently the murder of the friend happened in the medical district (Parkland Hospital), which I didn't really think was all that dangerous but I could be wrong.
    Yeah, was going to post that I found out the new victim had moved about 10 minutes away and he wasn't shot in the parking lot of the complex where Guyger, Jean, and he lived originally, but I forgot to follow up. That must be the area you're referring to, and if it's not dangerous or known for drive-bys, it's strange.

  2. Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    I haven't been able to find the answer. How was she able to get in the apartment and l thought the doors automatically locked from early accounts.
    Did some reading on this because there was talk of a red light on the door lock blinking if you inserted the wrong electronic key, and analysis was going to be done on his lock to show what keys were inserted and how many times, but never saw anything about that in the trial. Turns out that the doors apparently are supposed to automatically swing shut and latch, and maybe not automatically *lock* (not totally sure on the locking part), but various residents testified/spoke about the doors not even latching all the time. His door was apparently ajar, which folks thought was weird, but maybe it was just shut and not latched or locked and she pushed it open.

    And then something in her brain took over, and instead of backing off and calling for assistance or doing literally anything else than what she did, she did what every stupid person on TV does (even though everybody is yelling at the screen "Don't go in!!!!") and goes right in without turning on a light, and bad sh*t happened.

  3. Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    Brown's killers identified - drug deal gone bad.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/08/us/jo...day/index.html

  4. Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBatesokc View Post
    Brown's killers identified - drug deal gone bad.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/08/us/jo...day/index.html
    Good to know they figured it out. Brown hid his significant drug dealing fairly well, since none of the initial stories even suggested he was a dealer.

  5. #130

    Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    Good to know they figured it out. Brown hid his significant drug dealing fairly well, since none of the initial stories even suggested he was a dealer.
    Wasn't really relevant to the case and PC media has no reason to dig into his past. Not saying that's right or wrong just the nature of current day's media.

  6. Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    Quote Originally Posted by jn1780 View Post
    Wasn't really relevant to the case and PC media has no reason to dig into his past. Not saying that's right or wrong just the nature of current day's media.
    Huh? Brown being a drug dealer certainly was relevant to the initial stories of Brown being shot (and I don't remember seeing anything about it in any of the 6 or 7 stories I read), those are the ones I was referring to, not the Guyger case, which is what you seem to be talking about.

  7. #132

    Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    Quote Originally Posted by jn1780 View Post
    Wasn't really relevant to the case and PC media has no reason to dig into his past. Not saying that's right or wrong just the nature of current day's media.
    What on earth?

  8. Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    It's totally relevant IMO. It's also not surprising that the media only played up his role in the criminal trial and their reporting was totally void of any other angle to the shooting.

  9. #134

    Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    The only thing I don't get.... Who drives from Louisiana to Dallas to buy weed?

  10. #135

    Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    Quote Originally Posted by FighttheGoodFight View Post
    The only thing I don't get.... Who drives from Louisiana to Dallas to buy weed?
    Obvious questions...

  11. Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    Quote Originally Posted by FighttheGoodFight View Post
    The only thing I don't get.... Who drives from Louisiana to Dallas to buy weed?
    You have to consider where that information is coming from and what context it was given to the media.

    It doesn't mean that's the only reason they drove to Dallas. I mean.... it is DALLAS. They could have been doing or planned to do other things. It could be gang related, they may have family in the area, who knows.

    They also probably got that information from the very thugs that killed Brown. So, how forthcoming and reliable do you think we should consider the information? Also, how do we know it was "just weed" they were actually dealing with?

    Then there is the reality the police POI often gives very vague or even misleading information to the media.

    I'm going to guess that the suspects were identified by a combination of cell phone calls/texts and the fact 1-2 of the suspects popped up at local hospitals with injuries.

    Way too early to be scrutinizing the details of basically a press release to the media IMO.

  12. Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    Didn't want to start a whole new thread, but here's another cop who should never have been one, pathetically and sadly incompetent. What is it with the new cops that is just a "shoot, I have no other option" mentality? Didn't used to be like that...

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fort-...b01c76560b86c7

  13. Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    Didn't want to start a whole new thread, but here's another cop who should never have been one, pathetically and sadly incompetent. What is it with the new cops that is just a "shoot, I have no other option" mentality? Didn't used to be like that...

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fort-...b01c76560b86c7
    He's a murderer with a badge. That poor family. Black folks have every reason to dislike and not trust the police.
    The truth is never embarrassed by honest inquiry.

  14. Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    Didn't want to start a whole new thread, but here's another cop who should never have been one, pathetically and sadly incompetent. What is it with the new cops that is just a "shoot, I have no other option" mentality? Didn't used to be like that...

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fort-...b01c76560b86c7
    Wish they could come up with a reliable way to screen for people that are just not mentally capable of fulfilling the role of a police officer in all situations. Obviously the current method doesn't work.

    That said, the thousands upon thousands of body cam video of police NOT shooting while actually in a dangerous situation almost never makes the news - so, we are spoon fed a pretty steady stream of bias information that almost always has an intentional race dividing theme or headline.

    It's an often thankless job that unfortunately attracts lots of males who should never wear a gun or a badge.

    In this climate, I have no idea why a 'good cop' would even want the job.

  15. #140

    Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBatesokc View Post
    In this climate, I have no idea why a 'good cop' would even want the job.
    Decent pay, decent benefits, retirement after 20 years on the job. About the only places you get that are police/fire or the military.

  16. #141

    Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    I'm more and more convinced that we need to look into something similar to some countries (such as the UK), and only have special units that carry lethal weapons. In this case, for example, two patrolmen could have done a general investigation, and if there was concern or a need for a more tactical response, request a firearm unit, a supervisor, or whatever. I know there's an issue with the fact that many more criminals carry guns in the US than other countries, but I feel like the escalation to lethal just moves too quickly sometimes. Even if it's the case that new officers don't get to carry guns from day one, but are partnered up with someone who has a higher level of training and certification. Let gun training and certification be part of their later career path once they have some training on the job. It also allows more of the initial training to be focused on good police work, and not on combat/firearm training (they're not soldiers after all). From the wikipedia on UK Firearms Units...

    Out of the total 150,000 officers in the 39 territorial police forces in England, 6,500 are trained in the use of firearms. 2,500 of them are in service with the Metropolitan Police.[15]

    Before a police officer can apply to join the firearms unit, they are required to have completed their two-year probationary period. After being screened for security clearance and undergoing various interviews, they are invited to attend the National Police Firearms Training Centre at Gravesend, Kent. At the centre, the potential AFOs undergo one week of intensive training on the Glock 17 pistol, Heckler & Koch MP5 semi automatic carbine, Heckler & Koch L104A1 baton gun and the X26 Taser. This is followed by training on the legal regulations regarding the police use of firearms and rules of engagement, a further six weeks of training is focused solely on ARVs, with an emphasis on driving techniques, high speed pursuit methods and safely executing controlled crashes.

    Authorized Firearms Officers applying to become Specialist Firearms Officers, are required to attend an eight-week training course at the National Police Firearms Training Centre. The main role of an SFO is to intervene in situations that are beyond the control of AFOs, such as building sieges involving a hostage situation. Potential SFOs are extensively trained in the use of specialist firearms, method of entry techniques and abseiling 'fast rope' skills. Potential SFOs are also trained in safe entry into air and watercraft. Training also includes the use of tear gas and stun grenades, safe handling of hostages and rescue techniques, computer simulated 'war games' of potential threats such as a major evacuation or terrorist attack, and training in the use of protective clothing against CBRN attack.

    The guidelines regarding operational use of firearms and rules of engagement are dictated by the Association of Chief Police Officers, making sure that the rules outlined are compliant with the European Convention of Human Rights and the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. Firearms officers are authorized to fire upon a suspect if they pose an "immediate threat to life", such as if an armed offender brandished a firearm at a member of the public or police officer. They may also fire if an offender is clearly in possession of a firearm, or is suspected to be carrying one. In all situations, a clear oral warning must be given of the officer's intention to use firearms, unless in a particular situation where it would be pointless or place life at risk. Firearms officers are also authorized to use their firearms for the humane destruction of animals, if the latter pose a significant threat.[16] Firearms officers are not required to give an oral warning if they are approaching someone who is believed to be intent on committing a suicide bombing. All officers are trained to fire once at the central mass in order to incapacitate a threat, then to re-assess the situation and the threat posed to justify any further shots. However, if Operation Kratos contingency plans are activated, an armed officer may shoot at the target's head, to kill, as a standard incapacitating shot risks detonating a bomb attached to the person. In all situations, the officer is to make the decision when to shoot. However, they are accountable in court and are asked to justify their actions in a court of law.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_unit

  17. Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post
    Decent pay, decent benefits, retirement after 20 years on the job. About the only places you get that are police/fire or the military.
    Ehhh. Still plenty of professions where you can get that, and not face getting killed on the job or the distain of the public. Not as plentiful as it used to be though. Heck, I work for myself and I have all of those. A pension instead of a self funded retirement would be nice though. I still wouldn’t recommend the profession in the current climate.

  18. Default Re: Dallas cop goes in wrong apartment and kills resident.

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    I'm more and more convinced that we need to look into something similar to some countries (such as the UK), and only have special units that carry lethal weapons. In this case, for example, two patrolmen could have done a general investigation, and if there was concern or a need for a more tactical response, request a firearm unit, a supervisor, or whatever. I know there's an issue with the fact that many more criminals carry guns in the US than other countries, but I feel like the escalation to lethal just moves too quickly sometimes. Even if it's the case that new officers don't get to carry guns from day one, but are partnered up with someone who has a higher level of training and certification. Let gun training and certification be part of their later career path once they have some training on the job. It also allows more of the initial training to be focused on good police work, and not on combat/firearm training (they're not soldiers after all). From the wikipedia on UK Firearms Units...



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_unit
    Great post. To add a few things:

    A lot of current cops are Armed Services veterans (no, I don't have any studies at hand, it's anecdotal, but google is your friend), and while the prevailing ideology among soldiers (soldiers vs. everybody else, us against them, because civilians aren't always just innocent civilians in this current climate) is good for the combat theater, it's not good for policing, because when a vet becomes a cop, they have to protect civilians, and not see them as a threat every time they get a call.

    Here's part of a great article I bookmarked way back when it was published, and a very relevant part is this:

    "The Netherlands, Norway and Finland, for example, require police to attend a national academy – a college for cops – for three years. In Norway, over 5,000 applicants recently competed for the 700 annual spots.

    Three years affords police ample time to learn to better understand, communicate with and calm distraught individuals. By contrast, in 2006, US police academies provided an average of 19 weeks of classroom instruction.

    Under such constraints, the average recruit in the US spends almost 20 times as many hours of training in using force than in conflict de-escalation. Most states require fewer than eight hours of crisis intervention training."

    Entire article is well worth the read:

    http://theconversation.com/why-do-am...ean-cops-49696

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