6100 Grand

[shawnw]

https://twitter.com/TylerBHolmes/sta...65501189050373

[Pete]

The stone is starting to be installed on the north side (2nd photo):

[Pete]

Just filed permits to finish this project with a building on either side of the one currently under construction.

[Plutonic Panda]

Great news! This will look beautiful in person once finished.

[warreng88]

Just filed permits to finish this project with a building on either side of the one currently under construction.

Good to hear. I was curious if construction costs were going to delay the next phases of this development.

[fortpatches]

What is this architectural style called? I really like it.

[TheTravellers]

What is this architectural style called? I really like it.

Georgian, I think.

[KayneMo]

What is this architectural style called? I really like it.

I would call this Beaux-Arts.

Here's an example in Brussels:

[Timtoomany]

Try Chateauesque. It's not Georgian.

[TheTravellers]

Try Chateauesque. It's not Georgian.

Not really Chateauesque either, I think Beaux-Arts fits the bill (Georgian came to mind first, and it looks like Beaux-Arts is similar, but more ornate, so I cede to KayneMo, because he probably has way more knowledge about architecture than I do ).

[Timtoomany]

Different names for the same thing. French Renaissance Revival, Second Empire, etc. Worked well in 18th Century France, but I question what business it has in 21st Century Oklahoma City.

[fortpatches]

Thanks! I think you got it with the French Renaissance Revival. I love it - looks quite posh.

Different names for the same thing. French Renaissance Revival, Second Empire, etc. Worked well in 18th Century France, but I question what business it has in 21st Century Oklahoma City.

How do you decide what architecture has any business in OKC? Like, does it have to originate here or something?

I kinda despise ranch style houses. I think they are an inefficient waste of space whose function is behind us and are extraordinarily bland. I wouldn't consider buying one. But if you like it, more power to you. It's business here is that it fits someone's fancy.

[Timtoomany]

You raise an excellent question, and I expect that in trying to respond I will stray into TLDR territory.

No, Oklahoma doesn't really have a vernacular architecture--it's too young to have one--so it's always looking outside for its influences. In a way this means that anyone can pick whatever style they want to adopt for their developments; someone's going to like it, someone isn't. I feel that this doesn't adequately justify the sort of world buffet approach to architecture in OKC. It has a climate; we could respond to that. It has different areas that warrant different densities of development; we could respond to that. It has prevailing building techniques and local materials, and I think we can and should be responding to that.

I guess it's the last of these that offends me most about this development (and many others). Looking at the thing being constructed, it's clear it's just that same as every other stick-build, weatherboard, thin veneer of facing material, apply-decoration-to-suit-taste building as everything else that's being built here. If it were lovingly crafted in hand-hewn limestone, I'd probably still object, but maybe less so. Could we try and pluck our inspiration from somewhere more relevant than France 200 years ago?

[Pete]

^

Tim knows!


The one thing that seems to be a small bit of a legit Oklahoma theme is the extensive use of red brick, which is in relatively inexpensive supply due to our unique red clay soil.

Until I traveled around the country and saw largely frame houses, that had never occurred to me.

[stlokc]

Pete. it's so interesting that you bring up the use of brick. I think people that have lived their whole lives in OK don't appreciate the degree to which that is unique. I mean, you also see it in Texas, but other than that...

It's amazing to me that they are building $750K and up houses in the suburbs of St. Louis that are frame on three sides with some decorative brick on the front. I think the houses are so tacky. It's like "we understand that brick is preferential to frame and we'll try to have the part that faces the street in brick" but the rest of the house is just siding. I ask builders why that is and they say that brick is crazy expensive here. Also, the bricklayers union makes the cost of installing it just out of reach for anything other than a few custom homes.

There are things about the OKC built environment that leave much to be desired. But the fact that most new suburban homes continue to be brick and stone rather than oceans of siding is a big plus.

As for this development at 6100 Grand, I think what they are doing is elegant looking and a nice complement to the area.

[Mississippi Blues]

I’ll just add that I also didn’t appreciate the use of brick until I went to college in California and began to realize I much preferred the quality of homes in Oklahoma. It’s my wife’s favorite part, aesthetically speaking, about living in Oklahoma after spending all her life in the Pacific Northwest.

[stlokc]

Mississippi Blues, I will say that frame/shingle housing can be appealing in the right context. If you've ever been to Nantucket or Cape Cod or Maine or any of the beaches or small towns up in New England, brick wouldn't look right up there, and the houses look very quaint and well done. And actually I personally think the timber houses in the Pacific Northwest are attractive, if nestled in trees, etc. But nothing looks worse than boxes of siding facing other boxes of siding on flat lands in the Midwest. I mean so blah...

[Mississippi Blues]

No disagreement about houses/architecture being situational. My uncle lives on the coast of New Hampshire and the brick found in Oklahoma would be a travesty compared to what can be found there. Also, some of the most picturesque homes/property in America can be found in the rural parts of the Pacific Northwest, but when you get into most of the newer subdivisions on the outskirts of Portland, Seattle, and their suburbs, it can get uninspiring pretty quickly even with the beautiful evergreens, though they do help.

[Urbanized]

…The one thing that seems to be a small bit of a legit Oklahoma theme is the extensive use of red brick, which is in relatively inexpensive supply due to our unique red clay soil.

Until I traveled around the country and saw largely frame houses, that had never occurred to me.

Yep, you only have to travel north to Wichita to see extensive use of frame-only and partial-frame for residential. It’s startlingly different from OKC. I personally grew up in a red brick postwar tract house there, but those were the exception rather than the rule there, and I’ll guarantee that the brick didn’t come from just down the street as does the brick for so many houses in OKC.

[Urbanized]

Regarding the architectural style of this development I’d also say that this project is clearly targeted at the Nichols Hills old money crowd, who often tend to embrace VERY traditional European/Old World building styles such as this one. It’s probably a really good choice from a business standpoint.

[Pete]

Speaking of Oklahoma brick, when I moved back about 6 years ago I was immediately drawn to my present home, a modest early 60's brick ranch house. It always just felt 'right' to me and still does.

It was only after a few years had passed that I realized it was built the same year and out of the same brick as the house my parents bought new and where I spent my entire childhood near 63rd & Meridian.

[fortpatches]

Pete. it's so interesting that you bring up the use of brick. I think people that have lived their whole lives in OK don't appreciate the degree to which that is unique. I mean, you also see it in Texas, but other than that...

It's amazing to me that they are building $750K and up houses in the suburbs of St. Louis that are frame on three sides with some decorative brick on the front. I think the houses are so tacky. It's like "we understand that brick is preferential to frame and we'll try to have the part that faces the street in brick" but the rest of the house is just siding. I ask builders why that is and they say that brick is crazy expensive here. Also, the bricklayers union makes the cost of installing it just out of reach for anything other than a few custom homes.

There are things about the OKC built environment that leave much to be desired. But the fact that most new suburban homes continue to be brick and stone rather than oceans of siding is a big plus.

As for this development at 6100 Grand, I think what they are doing is elegant looking and a nice complement to the area.

I don't really understand this bit. what do you mean "frame" here? I don't think anyone frames a house with red brick anywhere? It's always like wooden frame with a brick veneer if it has brick, just like siding is a veneer.

What is unique about the brick here though? I've only lived in OK, AR, MO, KS, and DC. There is brick there too?

I really do like stone work though. When done well, it looks teriffic!

[Pete]

^

"Frame" means wood siding.

[SpaceGuy]

You raise an excellent question, and I expect that in trying to respond I will stray into TLDR territory.

No, Oklahoma doesn't really have a vernacular architecture--it's too young to have one--so it's always looking outside for its influences. In a way this means that anyone can pick whatever style they want to adopt for their developments; someone's going to like it, someone isn't. I feel that this doesn't adequately justify the sort of world buffet approach to architecture in OKC. It has a climate; we could respond to that. It has different areas that warrant different densities of development; we could respond to that. It has prevailing building techniques and local materials, and I think we can and should be responding to that.

I guess it's the last of these that offends me most about this development (and many others). Looking at the thing being constructed, it's clear it's just that same as every other stick-build, weatherboard, thin veneer of facing material, apply-decoration-to-suit-taste building as everything else that's being built here. If it were lovingly crafted in hand-hewn limestone, I'd probably still object, but maybe less so. Could we try and pluck our inspiration from somewhere more relevant than France 200 years ago?

yeah just gonna agree with tim here and say this whole development is weird and a bummer

[Pete]

This is an interesting graphic that shows how much more common brick is in this part of the country: