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  1. #26

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    I meant Eric, but regardless... my point is that I think he is thinking that funding itself isn't a solution. I imagine that neither is consolidation or cost cutting. I figure the correct solution is a combination of multiple actions.

    As for sharing revenues, I know there's been issues here. Stroud sued Welston a few years back, claiming they were getting too much money from the ad valorum on a oil pipe cutting through both cities. And I agree, solely city based funding would be bad, but on the other hand, if Edmond voters continue to pass bonds and willingly pay higher taxes, and Del City voters oppose them, should money be moved over? I don't know the answer.
    I may be wrong, but the bond issues go largely to pay for capital projects, which do stay within the taxing district. There may be a few exceptions, but by and large I believe that's the way it works.

  2. #27

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    I may be wrong, but the bond issues go largely to pay for capital projects, which do stay within the taxing district. There may be a few exceptions, but by and large I believe that's the way it works.
    Bonds do but ad valorum taxes can go to teacher pay.

  3. #28

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Honestly it wasn't a direct response to any of your posts at all. It was kind of tangential thought based on comments above about Texas' system.

    Let me preface to say that I am a keep it local guy, especially with politics. If it can be governed locally it should. Standing armies, should not be governed locally, which is why we have all the levels of government. Local/County/State/Feds. School districts are best maintained by those that have a vested interest in their success. There are plenty of well educated enough people (the state house being an exception) to maintain as many districts as necessary.

    So Texas' system intrigues me because the control is maintained locally. I prefer this and think it is a superior system than having 100 some odd yochals a hundred miles away determine what happens in my schools and towns.

    I apologize for any confusion my random thoughts may have caused. Collateral damage I suppose.
    How is the control of local school districts different in Texas than Oklahoma? The state of Oklahoma sets standards and equalizes operational funding but the control IS local via the local school board.

    As for not equalizing the operational funding between districts and keeping all funding local, that's not up to the state. That's required by federal law and court rulings.

  4. #29

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Swake View Post
    How is the control of local school districts different in Texas than Oklahoma? The state of Oklahoma sets standards and equalizes operational funding but the control IS local via the local school board.

    As for not equalizing the operational funding between districts and keeping all funding local, that's not up to the state. That's required by federal law and court rulings.
    But in Texas case, most of the funding for each district does not come from the state (via property tax). Most never leaves the district. So it doesn't get equalized. Now some funding does come from the state in Texas (usually less than a quarter of districts' budgets), and it is "equalized" and apportioned based on head count. But it just represents a much smaller piece of the pie than it does in Oklahoma.

    And Texas Education Agency is a bit more hands off than Oklahoma's from what I understand (which again could be wrong). ISD's in Texas have more control than our version here in Oklahoma (PSD)

  5. #30

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    But in Texas case, most of the funding for each district does not come from the state (via property tax). Most never leaves the district. So it doesn't get equalized. Now some funding does come from the state in Texas (usually less than a quarter of districts' budgets), and it is "equalized" and apportioned based on head count. But it just represents a much smaller piece of the pie than it does in Oklahoma.

    And Texas Education Agency is a bit more hands off than Oklahoma's from what I understand (which again could be wrong). ISD's in Texas have more control than our version here in Oklahoma (PSD)
    Nearly every district in Oklahoma is an ISD, just like in Texas. All that means is that the district is not tied to a municipality like a county or a city. Apparently Texas has a few of those. Oklahoma does not to my knowledge. Oklahoma has a few DEPENDENT school districts that don't have a high school and are dependent on a nearby ISD for a high school.

    School funding is just the same Texas as in Oklahoma, the state funding is used to "equalize" the funding out between districts. Texas just has higher property taxes. Federal rules.

  6. #31

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    I can't speak for Texas, but in Oklahoma "dependent" (now referred to as "elementary") means the district doesn't offer high school. "Independent" means the district does offer high school. Follow the link below for statutory definitions.

    http://www.oscn.net/applications/osc...STOKST70&year=

    http://www.oscn.net/applications/osc...STOKST70&year=

  7. #32

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    From wikipedia... (fwiw)..
    An independent school district (ISD) is a type of school district in some U.S. states for primary and secondary education, which operates as an entity that is independent and separate from any municipality, county, or state. As such the administrative leadership of such districts is selected from within the district itself and has no direct responsibility to any other governmental authority. This independence normally also implies that the district has its own taxing authority that is outside the direct control of other governmental entities.

    The state of Texas has by far the largest number of independent school districts with almost all of its districts falling into this category (Stafford Municipal School District being the notable exception).[1] The term independent may be used to describe other types of school districts though this is less common.

  8. #33

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    Districts in Texas have the power to levy taxes. We don't. That's the biggest difference really.

  9. #34

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Districts in Texas have the power to levy taxes. We don't. That's the biggest difference really.
    See, what had been told to me is that schools in Oklahoma can get tax revenue, and it's just when they get over a certain amount (from bonds and ad valorum) they get less from the state. This was the explanation of why Cushing (I believe) didn't participate in the walkout. They have enough funding and pay their teachers fairly well compared to surrounding communities. Stroud is in the same shape evidently.

  10. #35

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Districts in Texas have the power to levy taxes. We don't. That's the biggest difference really.
    I seem to vote on a lot of district based bond issues.

  11. #36

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Swake View Post
    I seem to vote on a lot of district based bond issues.
    Those are for capital costs and construction. Not really for supplies and day-to-day expenses.

  12. #37

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Swake View Post
    I seem to vote on a lot of district based bond issues.
    Who was the taxing authority though.

    In Texas the districts set a budget, and then each year notify citizens as to what the levy will be. Decidedly different than what we do here.

  13. #38

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    From wikipedia... (fwiw)..
    An independent school district (ISD) is a type of school district in some U.S. states for primary and secondary education, which operates as an entity that is independent and separate from any municipality, county, or state. As such the administrative leadership of such districts is selected from within the district itself and has no direct responsibility to any other governmental authority. This independence normally also implies that the district has its own taxing authority that is outside the direct control of other governmental entities.

    The state of Texas has by far the largest number of independent school districts with almost all of its districts falling into this category (Stafford Municipal School District being the notable exception).[1] The term independent may be used to describe other types of school districts though this is less common.
    I've been a school lawyer here in Oklahoma for 20 years. Again, while I can't speak for any other state's statutory definitions, in Oklahoma, the terms "dependent" and "independent" refer to whether the districts offer high school ("independent") or whether they do not ("dependent", now called "elementary"). If you'll look at the links provided in my post above, they take you directly to Oklahoma law with those terms specifically defined.

    In Oklahoma, you're either an independent or a dependent school district (or a technology center school district, a/k/a our career tech system). Regardless, each school district is a body corporate that can sue or be sued, contract or be contracted with, and can hold, buy and sell real estate. The governing body of each school district is its board of education.

    Not being as certain about how their funding, I contacted my school finance colleague and asked about whether dependent (elementary) school districts were funded the same as independent ones. He said that they are, with the exception of the dependents not receiving revenue from gross production or motor vehicle.

    Hope this helps clear up any questions or misinformation floating around out there.

  14. #39

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    See, what had been told to me is that schools in Oklahoma can get tax revenue, and it's just when they get over a certain amount (from bonds and ad valorum) they get less from the state. This was the explanation of why Cushing (I believe) didn't participate in the walkout. They have enough funding and pay their teachers fairly well compared to surrounding communities. Stroud is in the same shape evidently.

    You'll hear of schools "off the funding formula", which are those who have enough tax revenue collections that they do not receive any state aid. Those schools that are off the formula are not going to receive any monies for the teacher raises, by the way. This may or may not cause a hardship, depending on how far off the formula they are.

  15. #40

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    Not sure how much confidence there is in the "formula". Wasn't there a string of lawsuits by districts claiming it was inaccurate and they were getting shorted fairly considerable sums of money recently?

  16. #41

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    was there a "democratic revival" in oklahoma last night?

    I see where in the Oklahoma house, republicans gained 3 seats to make it 76-25.
    i don't see the net gain/loss for the state senate?

  17. #42

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCretro View Post
    was there a "democratic revival" in oklahoma last night?

    I see where in the Oklahoma house, republicans gained 3 seats to make it 76-25.
    i don't see the net gain/loss for the state senate?
    I believe a net gain of 1 for Dems in senate.

  18. #43

    Default Re: The Teachers’ Strike and the Democratic Revival in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCretro View Post
    was there a "democratic revival" in oklahoma last night?

    I see where in the Oklahoma house, republicans gained 3 seats to make it 76-25.
    i don't see the net gain/loss for the state senate?
    Didn't that happen in 2016 too? Then, several Republicans had to step down either because of blatant corruption or because they were arrested for raping teenage boys. One did quit immediately after winning to take a private job. Is this crop better?

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