Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

[Uptowner]

All this talk about corporate environment but still no one has commented on the shift in AGE, I had a ton of jobs through high school and college. And there always seemed to be another job that was a step in a different direction. Auto parts, grocery stores, fast food, pizza, 7-11, the list goes on. The corporate environment hardly varied from McDonald’s to Oreilly’s auto parts, BUT the jobs were all held by young people. Now I see all those same jobs being filled by adults. Adults trying to raise families and put roofs over said heads with $7.25-$9/hr. It’s insane. When I worked those jobs it was just to earn beer money, drive a boss mustang, and split a 3 bedroom house right off campus with 3 other men and Robs deadbeat girlfriend who liked to eat my cinny toast crunch.

The last time I went in an auto parts store it was around 8:30pm and the cashier (I guess about 45yo) is tucking her young children over the PHONE. I know too many people my age who rely on dual incomes just to survive.

Is it just a generational think that people that age didn’t gruaduate from Sonic Drive-in University and get a blue collar job? Most of my non-college educated friends work at tinker or a blue collar office job or energy or construction and do quite well. Meanwhile it seems like every millennial coming down the line has a rinky dink bachelors in communications, phycology, and hospitality are leapfrogging older people with real world experience all the while never having a McJob, their entitlement scores are through the roof.

I don’t know if any of my rhetoric makes a point. But if I were in my mid 30’s, like I am now, and still worked a job that paid $9 AND I had to deal with the general public, because let’s not forget that the general public, especially when they expect something from a minimum wage employee, is horrible. If I were in that situation, I would be a miserable slob that hated you too.

[stile99]

let’s not forget that the general public, especially when they expect something from a minimum wage employee, is horrible.

That's an excellent point. When there's an entire fad based on a-holes posting videos of throwing **** at you, that can't be good for the morale.

[jerrywall]

Word. I worked at McDs through high school. While I was in 4 AP courses, band, and ROTC. If I had a nickel for every time someone talked down to me or told me if I applied myself in life I wouldn't be working there... Well I wouldn't be rich but I would have a free dinner or two.

[baralheia]

I actually agree with tfvc, but I come at it from a different angle. I don't see it as crappy people making crappy excuses for a crappy job, I see it as human beings who may or may not have started the job bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, but have been beaten down by horrible mismanagement. McDonald's and Walmart are not seen as crappy jobs because management makes it an enjoyable place to work. I was literally just last night reading an article about McDonald's and this issue...franchises are having an issue hiring people because of the horrible reputation. This does not just apply to crappy McJobs though, right here in OKC we have a couple places that have the reputation of working their people to the point of exhaustion and then another 20 hours on top of that. They actually try to spin this as a selling point, "we work hard and we play hard", and to make up for working some people literally into the grave they bring in booze and get everyone drunk a couple times a year. That's not a business, that's a frat house, and it takes a really special person to go into that environment with a smile and go home at night with that smile intact.

tl;dr: Yes, some people are pieces of crap who will be miserable no matter what. But so are some jobs, and no amount of "it is what you make of it" is going to change the fact that you have three managers giving you three conflicting instructions. You're effed regardless of what you do, so many people just say eff it. I agree with what was said, I know I personally feel better when my employer has my back as opposed to my employer stabbing me in the back.

This. So much this. If an employer doesn't make me feel like I'm a valued member of the team, then why should I value that employer? A large number of low-wage jobs don't do or offer anything to engender any loyalty from their employees, and a McJob is a McJob. I have a pretty strong work ethic and can soldier through and do the job I was hired to do (as I did when I worked for Arby's), but it's so much easier, so much more rewarding, and so much less soul crushing when your employer has your back and wants to see you succeed. I worked for the company I'm pretty sure you're referencing here, and you're right... That place was super stressful to work for. I'm happy for the experience I got while working there but... yeah, especially towards the end of my employment there, I did not leave that building with a smile at the end of my shift. Their turnover was unreal...

[jerrywall]

I agree. I think McDs, if we're gonna pick on them, has changed. Back in the 80s and 90s most of the stores in OK were corporate owned. They had a large office on NW Expressway. There was a strong career path, and the benefits were great. My father, after our grocery chain went under, started as an assistant manager and eventually moved to corporate. The pay was very good for store managers and you got company cars, stock, etc. The goal was always to grow you into a corporate position, or to help you build enough stock to eventually buy your own franchise. That was Ray Crocks growth model.

Now all the stores in OK as far as I know are franchises, and they close the corporate offices here a decade ago. How much investment will an employee have in a job with no opportunities?

[Johnb911]

Back to tipping etiquette for a bit. I've always appreciated these great words of wisdom:

Dwight Schrute: Why tip someone for a job I'm capable of doing myself? I can deliver food, I can drive a taxi, I can and do cut my own hair. I did, however, tip my urologist. Because I am unable to pulverize my own kidney stones.

[Pete]

Almost every day, I see obvious examples of how strained the service industry is in OKC, and that trend seems to be accelerating.


Recently, I went to a newish restaurant and sat at the bar. I won't name it but it's part of a respected local restaurant group.

I'm not sure how to word this without seeming judgmental, but the woman behind the bar was missing most her teeth, was quite overweight, had a profound limp... And by far worst of all, a persistent hacking cough.

At another local place -- part of another restaurant group that I particularly like -- our waitress was super skinny, her teeth were black and she was so uncomfortable she would not look us in the eye and seemed to have trouble comprehending our order. When the food was served, mine was completely missing and she explained she didn't understand that I had ordered something (!?). Not a big deal, I patiently explained what I wanted and it ultimately arrived... With a woman who I believe was the manager who basically berated this poor young lady while she was standing there and offered to comp my meal.


I think we have now reached full crisis status. And there are a lot more places -- including some large chain operations -- set to open soon with tons more in the pipeline.

[CloudDeckMedia]

And this is what you see in the FRONT of the house. Imagine what’s going on in the kitchen!

[jonny d]

So how do we go about fixing this? Not like we can manufacture people (or pay for dental work for EVERYONE). Just curious what the solution to this crisis is.

[Pete]

The better places are just going to have to pay better to recruit and keep decent staff.

And keep creating opportunities for advancement.


I also think we the consumer will be paying more as a result of all this, which is fine as long as you get decent service.

[CloudDeckMedia]

Bubble. OKC's food service & hospitality industry has been in a bubble for quite a while, and Pete's post this morning exemplifies why. Underscoring that is the new warehouse-to-restaurant conversion at 19-23 NE 6th Street as reported by OKCTalk this morning. I'm curious where the capital comes from for these businesses. Banks traditionally wouldn't touch a new restaurant or bar, so the money came from family, friends and fools. Does it still? Do people see all of these new restaurants and think, "I've got to get in while it's hot," and offer to invest money?

I don't welcome the eventual shake-out, but it's coming.

[Pete]

^

Almost all local restaurant and bars are funded by selling shares to local investors.

Hal Smith has an elaborate model and pro forma for this and basically uses it for every single new place they open. Variations on that model are used by other restaurant and bar owners here, as I've seen them floating around.

Pretty much all the OKC restaurant groups go this route.

[catch22]

Yep private fundraising and they also use it as a good carrot for someone moving up the ladder into manager roles. They will either make you a part owner with your promotion as a bonus or offer the opportunity to buy shares in your store. Which is great for all involved. Someone with some skin in the game will treat that restaurant as their own rather than someone only simply on salary. The restaurant’s problems are their problems, not just the company’s.

[mugofbeer]

This situation is happening in many parts of the country. This is a symptom of an economy reaching full employment and can only be changed by more workers or higher wages. Employers have resisted paying them throughout this economic boom but are going to be forced to.

This brings up what source is there for new employees? l can tell you that as a long-tenured employee for my firm, there is an effort to deliberately "dumb down" the employee ranks by pushing customers to on-line sources and trying to get by with 25 year olds for roles that take years to become proficient. l know numerous other people in my age group who are being replaced by younger people or being given unrealistic goals because of tenure, told they are underperforming, then being replaced by younger people.

It's reasonable to understand older, more seasoned, more tenured employees are going to be paid more and cost more, but workers who still have years to work are being forced to leave before they are ready. The consequence is employers hiring ignorant, impatient young people who don't have customer service skills or employers hiring the lowest common denominator. The alternative? One is those older workers who just got let go because they are more expensive and not valued for their experience and skills. Thats why you see some older folks in roles teens used to fill. Another? Import your labor - or export out of the country.

[gopokes88]

Lol I just wanna know where you’re going Pete. I probably hit a lot of the same spots you do and have experienced nothing even remotely close to that.

Maybe it’s just my devilishly good looks

[bluedogok]

It is the same issue here in Denver, the Post, Westword and Eater-Denver have all had articles about staffing shortages in recent months with new places opening weekly. In Midland a couple of weeks ago most places (including Walmart) are advertising starting wages in the 11-12/hr range. Oil field or energy industry service work is advertising over 20/hr starting.

[bluedogok]

^^^^^^^^
This is true but also due to training as much as ongoing oversight. Hal Smith has a very rigorous training program. Not sure about Jimmy's Egg. I've talked about this quite a bit with the general manager of Mickey Mantle's, who is a friend. That is a place where the service has not slipped in 18 years, despite several GM changes and most of their management staff over the years getting their own stores or otherwise moving on. Yet they never miss a beat, and it is in large part because they invest so heavily up front in training. A server there won't interact directly with a customer until a couple of weeks of training, and an experienced bartender from somewhere else always starts on the floor and has to work their way back behind the bar.

Kirby's is known for their level of service, to maintain the same level of service at MM in comparison to their Texas locations was very important to the owners.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^
Yep. I’ve gotten to know the owners of the Kirby’s group a bit over the years (strong Oklahoma ties, by the way), and the guy who is in charge of it all is a longtime friend, who served as the first GM of Mickey’s for years. In fact they have actually for many years considered the OKC Mickey’s location to be their flagship/signature store, despite having been founded in Dallas and having a number of Texas locations.

There is no company I am aware of in OKC that puts such a focus on service excellence; none. I’ve had many conversations about it with past GMs and the now longtime-present GM, who is a close friend of mine.

Although just like anywhere else, employees move back and forth between restaurant groups, the staff longevity in that one is incredible. And I think it’s worth noting that one of Hal Smith’s main corporate trainers (HSRG is one of the best examples for training locally) spent years at Mickey’s (and fair to point out was at HSRG before that).

[Richard at Remax]

Went to a newer Hal Smith concept last night. The whole place felt out of sync, very unusual for a HS place. The wait staff was friendly enough and service was fine, but it felt like all of them were very new to the profession. It was quite eye opening since I have been used to a type of service from most Hal Smith places. Plus it was very empty for dinner time, I hope they can make it.

[ctchandler]

Went to a newer Hal Smith concept last night. The whole place felt out of sync, very unusual for a HS place. The wait staff was friendly enough and service was fine, but it felt like all of them were very new to the profession. It was quite eye opening since I have been used to a type of service from most Hal Smith places. Plus it was very empty for dinner time, I hope they can make it.

Worthy Cook,
So, what restaurant are you talking about? Their Irish Pub. I would be interested in knowing since my grandson works there (making some money while going to UCO).
C. T.

[Uptowner]

I always find this thread interesting. Mostly because the average person doesn’t realize that serving is a CAREER. Not just merely just a means to an end. Markedly: making some extra money during college, adding a bit of income to an otherwise part time job, etc. etc. etc.

It’s the career servers that are in short supply. People who’ve decided “hey I can make 35-55 (and beyond) a year.” And turn a year by year partially self made business out of serving. Especially when cash can be untaxable.

It’s those who are committed to serving as a career or a main source of income who most of us consider “good servers” and there’s a surplus of jobs who need “warm bodies.”

[ctchandler]

I always find this thread interesting. Mostly because the average person doesn’t realize that serving is a CAREER. Not just merely just a means to an end. Markedly: making some extra money during college, adding a bit of income to an otherwise part time job, etc. etc. etc.

It’s the career servers that are in short supply. People who’ve decided “hey I can make 35-55 (and beyond) a year.” And turn a year by year partially self made business out of serving. Especially when cash can be untaxable.

It’s those who are committed to serving as a career or a main source of income who most of us consider “good servers” and there’s a surplus of jobs who need “warm bodies.”

Uptowner,
Lots of places hire people like my grandson and granddaughter, as a matter of fact, they both work for a Hal Smith place, one at Pub W and the other at Matty McMillen's Irish Pub. If they can't get enough full time employees, hopefully they can get good part-timers. I doubt you would notice the difference between a career server and my part-time grandkids. No, that's not a grandad talking, I have observed them and they both understand that good service means more income and that is more than enough reason to give good service. There's always the chance that they will make a mistake now and then that hopefully a career server wouldn't make, but some career servers also make mistakes. Also, there's a difference between a $10 per hour part-time employee and a $2.18 per hour part-time server. The $10 person can work real hard or skate by and still get paid $10 per hour, and the server knows to make $10 and up, they have to earn it by providing good (or better) service. By the way, even though my granddaughter is going to college for a different career, this is her fourth year as a part-time server. My grandson is just a rookie, he started this summer at Hollie's Flatiron Steak House and was retained when they decided to change it to Matty's.
C. T.

[ctchandler]

Uptowner,
I was eating lunch at the Pepperoni Grill at Penn Square and our server noticed my company badge. This was in the day when the company name was on the badge. I was an IT supervisor for Hertz and our server told me (and my friends) that he had just graduated from CSU with a degree in computer science and was interested in an entry level programming position and wanted to know what the starting salary was. When I told him he got this funny look on his face and said that he couldn't afford to take the pay cut. So, a part-time server working his way through college is probably still in the server business, maybe even in management because it can pay pretty well if you are a good server.
C. T.

[Jeepnokc]

I always find this thread interesting. Mostly because the average person doesn’t realize that serving is a CAREER. Not just merely just a means to an end. Markedly: making some extra money during college, adding a bit of income to an otherwise part time job, etc. etc. etc.

It’s the career servers that are in short supply. People who’ve decided “hey I can make 35-55 (and beyond) a year.” And turn a year by year partially self made business out of serving. Especially when cash can be untaxable.

It’s those who are committed to serving as a career or a main source of income who most of us consider “good servers” and there’s a surplus of jobs who need “warm bodies.”

People don't realize that a professional server can make close to 80-90k per year at a place like The Ranch. They build up a following that will always request him/her or will tip plus 20% on high per person average meals. i left my requested usual server at the ranch 25% on an $800 tab the other night because he is always spot on every time I come in. It was my son's 16th birthday and he wanted the Ranch and he wanted Justin has that is all he really know of service at the Ranch because that is who we always get.

[stile99]

Uptowner,
I was eating lunch at the Pepperoni Grill at Penn Square and our server noticed my company badge. This was in the day when the company name was on the badge. I was an IT supervisor for Hertz and our server told me (and my friends) that he had just graduated from CSU with a degree in computer science and was interested in an entry level programming position and wanted to know what the starting salary was. When I told him he got this funny look on his face and said that he couldn't afford to take the pay cut. So, a part-time server working his way through college is probably still in the server business, maybe even in management because it can pay pretty well if you are a good server.
C. T.

Perhaps I read it wrong, but I believe that was Uptowner's entire point. The young lad in your example learned something that day, and what he learned is what Uptowner said...some people can make a very good living doing this. Restaurants need to seek out these people, but as this thread exists to point out, there are more "warm bodies" than there are "career servers". This unfortunately affects all companies. I'm sure you'd admit Hertz hired a mix of good people, some people who were fairly good and willing to do the job for that level of pay, and some people who were just there to fill the seat for 8 hours.

Slightly off topic (and yet also exactly on topic) the last time I went to Cattlemen's, I saw servers of both types. One was clearly there only to take your order, bring you your food, take away empty plates and maybe keep your glass full, then bring you the bill at the end. The other one was there to make sure you were taken care of and had a good time. Take a wild guess which one ended the night with more cash in pocket.