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Thread: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

  1. #26

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by bradh View Post
    This is a great thread and let me give my .02...

    Up here in the Twin Cities unemployment is like 2.4% or something, crazy low. Every low end job place you can think of (fast food, c-store clerk, etc) has damn near permanent signs up for "Help Wanted, $13/hr plus" out front.

    This problem, however, is not unique to service. I work in the heavy civil construction field, and in about 99% of the offices I visit, finding AND keeping good help is nearing critical stages. Unions are big up here and the halls have no one there for jobs (and the ones there are there for a reason...they suck). Men who have owned and operated family businesses for 30+ years are closing up shop, not because they're losing money or anything, but because they can't fill crews with capable operators, nor do any of their kids want to work to learn the business and take it over.

    Filling construction jobs is going to continue to be a big problem. It can be a lucrative industry to be in, but you've gotta work. Industry organizations are working to get in front of HS kids to show them what's out there in construction. In a union state like MN (and even in non-union states), you could go work construction out of HS, live at home for a few year, bankroll thousands and then if you really enjoyed it, go get an associates in something related, or even go 4 year for construction science and then move into the office for estimating/project management.
    Article today about this very topic in the WSJ


    Forget the Midwest. Minnesota Casts Itself as the North
    It won’t help the Vikings but to solve its population problem, the state is branding itself as ‘the North’; ‘Sick of being this afterthought in this afterthought called the Midwest’
    A mural in St. Paul, Minn., is part of a planned rejuvenation of the city’s downtown.
    A mural in St. Paul, Minn., is part of a planned rejuvenation of the city’s downtown. PHOTO: DAVID JOLES/MINNEAPOLIS STAR TRIBUNE/ZUMA PRESS
    By Shayndi Raice
    Jan. 21, 2018 7:54 p.m. ET
    134 COMMENTS
    A growing movement in Minnesota aims to break free of its Midwest roots and embrace its bone-chilling winters with a new identity: the North.

    Seeking to conjure up images of competitive winter sports, icy lakes and snuggling in front of a toasty fire, these northern evangelists are ready for their moment in the sun when Super Bowl LII comes to Minneapolis on Feb. 4.

    Minnesotans are “sick of being this afterthought in this afterthought called the Midwest. We’re the star of the North and no one else can offer that,” said R.T. Rybak, who served as mayor of Minneapolis from 2002 until 2014.


    The state is using the North to tackle an economic challenge: historically low unemployment and sluggish population growth. Employers complain that they can’t find the workers they need to fill jobs. The unemployment rate in the Minneapolis region stood at 2.4% in November. The state has an unemployment rate of 3.1%, a full percentage point lower than the national average.

    Slow Growth
    Annual change in population
    Source: U.S. Census Bureau via Federal Reserve Bank of St.Louis.
    %
    Midwest
    Minnesota
    West
    South
    2002
    ’04
    ’06
    ’08
    ’10
    ’12
    ’14
    ’16
    0.0
    0.5
    1.0
    1.5
    2.0
    The state’s population inched up 0.68% in 2016, while the Midwest region had a mere 0.15% uptick. By contrast, the Western U.S. grew 1.08% in 2016 and the South grew 1.06%.

    The Super Bowl host committee has embraced the slogan “Bold North.” Splashy stunts include a Bold North Zipline sending the courageous flying 100 feet in the air across the Mississippi River.

    Convincing people to move to Minnesota is “the most important work we can do in terms of growing our economy and staying competitive for the future,” said Michael Langley, chief executive of the regional economic development group Greater MSP and an executive board member of the Super Bowl host committee.

    Cities across the country are trying to figure out ways to attract millennials. Embracing its cold reputation, and casting off caricatures of Minnesotans like the heavy northern accents in the 1996 movie “Fargo,” is key to attracting young talent, North advocates say. Instead, they want to emphasize wintertime sports like cross-country skiing, skijoring, curling and ice fishing.

    “Different cities are competing for talent and you’ve got to realize you’re in a competition and have a strategy and be in it to win it,” said Eric Dayton, co-founder and CEO of clothing company Askov Finlayson, which produces popular hats with ‘NORTH’ boldly emblazoned on them.

    RELATED

    Struggling Americans Once Sought Greener Pastures—Now They’re Stuck
    In Cities With Low Unemployment, Wages Finally Start to Get Bigger
    The Top Colleges in Midwestern Big Cities
    A-hed: Selling a House to Millennials? Bring a Camera, and Fake Eyelashes
    Mr. Dayton, who is also the son of Minnesota Gov. Mark Dayton, is largely credited with starting the movement when in 2015 he advocated in a TED talk that Minnesotans embrace the cold.

    “What if just as the Scandinavian countries have their own identity...what if we had our own region as the northern U.S. or to be concise, the North,” said Mr. Dayton in his TED talk.


    There’s a winter festival, called The Great Northern; a summer festival, Northern Spark; Grow North MN, a group connecting agricultural entrepreneurs and the tech community has started calling the Twin Cities the start-up capital of the North.

    Mark Grindy, 29 years old, watched Mr. Dayton’s TED talk and said he found it compelling. From Duluth, Minn., Mr. Grindy moved to Washington, D.C., after college to work as a speechwriter. But he returned to his home state in 2015 and now lives in Minneapolis with his girlfriend.

    “There’s a sense that if you can be optimistic in this weather, ain’t nothin gonna get you down,” he said.

    Write to Shayndi Raice at shayndi.raice@wsj.com

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/minneso...too-1516582494

  2. #27

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    Curious, were menu prices more inflated there? One of the arguments of restaurant operators here is that the labor cost would increase menu prices by 30-50%. I don't think tips should go away, but I shouldn't be directly paying the salary of someone's worker. If you require your employee to wear your uniform, represent your brand, and sell/upsell your items - you should be paying their wage. If they go above and beyond, by all means leave a few extra bucks.
    This +1

  3. #28

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    It’s amazing that some places have good service with those lazy, privileged kids while others just blame the “generation” . Just maybe some operators don’t do a very good job of real training and real managing. Then, they staff lean to keep overhead down and stress the employees out.

    There are several fast food places I go to from time to time whose employees are great and others have chronic service problems. Same brand, same wages, same city. Might it be more about the managers and owners than the “kids”?
    I do agree with this, proper training is key and motivating kids to work hard. And those that don't cut them loose and hope they learn a lesson at the next place they apply at.

  4. #29

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    I'd be happy with a server at a restaurant who just *listens* to me. Don't put lemon in my water glass if I ask you not to. Make my sandwich or cook my steak or give me the side i ask for, not the one you think i want, or the one the last three customers ordered. Just listen to me. Pretty basic.

    The little things like just getting my basic order correct will make me happy. You don't have to shower me with happy talk and reaffirm my menu choices with "Absolutely!" especially if you're going to make them incorrectly. And please don't serve my food stone stinking cold, too. I don't think of these as complicated issues.... but they often are.

    As for me as a customer, I try to appreciate that the server job is a pain, and in that vein I try to be pleasant, reasonable, and appreciative of the work being done to serve me. I try not to make unreasonable requests, and say "Thank you" with a smile even for just a water glass refill. I did my bit as a server. I get that side of it.

    But, like I said, just listen to my order, and that'll go a long way to make me happy.

  5. Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    I feel pretty fortunate. I eat out for lunch 3-4x a week with a group of colleagues and we rarely have a negative experience - and we try to go to different and new places most days.

    The wife and I and friends go out to eat dinner 1-3x a week and, again, rarely is the service memorable either way - really good or really bad. That said, we do tend to avoid 'popular' establishment on weekend evenings, so that may help in avoiding bad service.

    If service is bad, it almost always boils down to; food takes too long to get out, temperature of food is not hot or the wait staff is lacking when it comes to drink refills.

    What really aggravates us is when we show up at a restaurant and they tell us there will be a wait (20-45+ minutes) and when you look into the restaurant they have numerous empty tables. This seems to come down to not enough staff so they only allow so many parties to be seated at any one time, or, (and even more aggravating) the restaurant has a policy of reserving called in table reservations up to 40 minutes before the party is even set to arrive.

  6. #31

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    I'll have to wildly disagree on the table reservation thing. If I reserve a table for four at 8pm, and the average time spent per group at a table is 45-90 minutes, then the place damn well better either be holding a table for four 40 minutes before my reservation or be prepared to box up any remaining food and eject the party currently halfway through their meal when my group arrives. Since that is most certainly not an option, most places go for the reserve a table plan, as that is the literal definition of a reservation. Not bothering to staff is WAY more aggravating to me than an establishment honoring their reservations.

    If I go someplace that I know reservations are a good idea and I don't have one, I don't mind a wait. That's on me. When they tell me there's a wait, then I have the choice to wait or go somewhere else. But if I DO have a reservation, then there's a good chance that I have plans after as well. So if I make one, and when I get there (on time, late is a horse of a different color) the restaurant says "Oh well, we're busy, you're going to have to wait" that will almost certainly be the last time I'm there. EVER.

    tl;dr: Honor your reservations or go right out of business for all I care. If this means people without a reservation have to wait, that's just the way it works.

  7. Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by stile99 View Post
    I'll have to wildly disagree on the table reservation thing. If I reserve a table for four at 8pm, and the average time spent per group at a table is 45-90 minutes, then the place damn well better either be holding a table for four 40 minutes before my reservation or be prepared to box up any remaining food and eject the party currently halfway through their meal when my group arrives. Since that is most certainly not an option, most places go for the reserve a table plan, as that is the literal definition of a reservation. Not bothering to staff is WAY more aggravating to me than an establishment honoring their reservations.

    If I go someplace that I know reservations are a good idea and I don't have one, I don't mind a wait. That's on me. When they tell me there's a wait, then I have the choice to wait or go somewhere else. But if I DO have a reservation, then there's a good chance that I have plans after as well. So if I make one, and when I get there (on time, late is a horse of a different color) the restaurant says "Oh well, we're busy, you're going to have to wait" that will almost certainly be the last time I'm there. EVER.

    tl;dr: Honor your reservations or go right out of business for all I care. If this means people without a reservation have to wait, that's just the way it works.
    Actually, I find most restaurants we frequent do not do that - hold a table 40+ minutes before it is reserved. Nobody in my party would ever expect such a thing. My expectations is that the manager or host can run a restaurant appropriately and not hold a table until maybe 15-20 minutes before it's needed. That fact that we often have to wait a few minutes to be seated with a reservation would seem to confirm this.

    I couldn't imagine holding several tables (empty) for 40 or so minutes prior to reservation during busy times - talk about loosing money in an industry that is tight as it is. Imagine if some of those people show up 5-10 minutes late - that's almost an hour of a table just sitting empty with people waiting (and often leaving).

    The one exception I can see is a large group that will be difficult to accommodate at a standard table.

    Another exception would be for establishments that are known to have patrons that loiter long after they have eaten - also, dinner vs lunch service.

  8. #33

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    That's why I said showing up late is a horse of a different color. Reservation at 8pm and I am there at 8pm? Damn well better have my table. Reservation at 8pm and I show up at 8:15pm? If I didn't call to let them know then I fully expect that table to be gone. I am thinking more of a specific reservation, more of 'a' table than 'any table'. Table at the window, quiet table in corner, table near entrance, etc. In the event of any table, then I agree, I would expect them to be intelligent enough to know their business and plan accordingly for the current flow.

  9. #34

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by BBatesokc View Post
    What really aggravates us is when we show up at a restaurant and they tell us there will be a wait (20-45+ minutes) and when you look into the restaurant they have numerous empty tables. This seems to come down to not enough staff so they only allow so many parties to be seated at any one time
    Who else does this other than texas de brazil?

  10. Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Vu View Post
    Who else does this other than texas de brazil?
    I've had it happen several places.... Most memorable was Pizza 23 where they not only made us wait but then they seated us at a table that had been empty the entire time we waited... Then after the crowd cleared out they pretty much ignored us. Not even a drink refill.

  11. Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    It seems like bad service has a way of working itself out for the better or worse. I'm looking at you S&B Burger NW Expressway...

  12. #37

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by OK BBQ Eater Anonymous View Post
    I've had it happen several places.... Most memorable was Pizza 23 where they not only made us wait but then they seated us at a table that had been empty the entire time we waited... Then after the crowd cleared out they pretty much ignored us. Not even a drink refill.
    I'll add that to the notes when people ask why I don't go there.

  13. #38

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Vu View Post
    I'll add that to the notes when people ask why I don't go there.
    Just saying they have bad pizza should be enough, they should just go to Gusto down the street, lol...

  14. #39

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    The best waiters are in Paris. Stop laughing and hear me out: When you arrive at a restaurant you select an empty table and sit. The waiter will greet you with a word or two and you will respond with a word or two, as he arranges each placesetting, sets water and menus. He will expect your drink order. He will return with your drinks and expect your food order. When you're finished he will remove your plates, bring a dessert menu or cart, and offer coffee or an after-dinner drink. You may typically linger as long as you wish (we've seen people linger for hours). When you ask for the bill he will have it ready and in his apron. He won't introduce himself, interrupt, or ask how the food is or offer another drink. He is a professional who will be watching nearby, waiting and ready to serve, and for you to tell him what you need. After you leave the table but before you reach the door, he will have cleaned your table and be ready for the next diner. I'd like to see this here.

  15. #40

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    Just saying they have bad pizza should be enough, they should just go to Gusto down the street, lol...
    Oddly enough I like the wings better there. I need to revisit it. I'd suck it up and go to Halls on 8th.

  16. #41

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by CloudDeckMedia View Post
    The best waiters are in Paris. Stop laughing and hear me out: When you arrive at a restaurant you select an empty table and sit. The waiter will greet you with a word or two and you will respond with a word or two, as he arranges each placesetting, sets water and menus. He will expect your drink order. He will return with your drinks and expect your food order. When you're finished he will remove your plates, bring a dessert menu or cart, and offer coffee or an after-dinner drink. You may typically linger as long as you wish (we've seen people linger for hours). When you ask for the bill he will have it ready and in his apron. He won't introduce himself, interrupt, or ask how the food is or offer another drink. He is a professional who will be watching nearby, waiting and ready to serve, and for you to tell him what you need. After you leave the table but before you reach the door, he will have cleaned your table and be ready for the next diner. I'd like to see this here.
    Absolutely, this! We had the best service we've ever had anywhere at any place we went to in Paris many years ago.

  17. #42

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Vu View Post
    Oddly enough I like the wings better there. I need to revisit it. I'd suck it up and go to Halls on 8th.
    Haven't been to Hall's, they're not currently on our list due to Elise's ALEC alignment and general political views and possible abuse of her office (minor, but still). And yeah, I know, I have no idea what the owners of the other pizza places around here do politics-wise, they may not meet our approval either, but at least they're not out in the open with their bad legislation.

  18. #43

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Vu View Post
    Oddly enough I like the wings better there. I need to revisit it. I'd suck it up and go to Halls on 8th.
    I like pretty much everything on their menu... aside from the pizza. Short rib gnocchi and lamb chops are both great too.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by CloudDeckMedia View Post
    The best waiters are in Paris. Stop laughing and hear me out: When you arrive at a restaurant you select an empty table and sit. The waiter will greet you with a word or two and you will respond with a word or two, as he arranges each placesetting, sets water and menus. He will expect your drink order. He will return with your drinks and expect your food order. When you're finished he will remove your plates, bring a dessert menu or cart, and offer coffee or an after-dinner drink. You may typically linger as long as you wish (we've seen people linger for hours). When you ask for the bill he will have it ready and in his apron. He won't introduce himself, interrupt, or ask how the food is or offer another drink. He is a professional who will be watching nearby, waiting and ready to serve, and for you to tell him what you need. After you leave the table but before you reach the door, he will have cleaned your table and be ready for the next diner. I'd like to see this here.
    I’d agree and add that most in London are good too. The idea of servers chit chatting is strictly an American thing. Service managers here confuse friendly with good service. Professionalism and inobtrusive efficiency trumps canned friendliness every time.

  20. #45

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    I’d agree and add that most in London are good too. The idea of servers chit chatting is strictly an American thing. Service managers here confuse friendly with good service. Professionalism and inobtrusive efficiency trumps canned friendliness every time.
    Cattlemen's has very professional service. There's not a bunch of mumbo-jumbo. You sit down and they are ready to serve, not entertain.

  21. Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by John1744 View Post
    I work in the grocery industry and see many of the same problems. I think it might be a sign of a more systematic issue. We can't afford to pay everyone crazy money, we typically hire high school kids 16 and up. We start them at $7.50 and can have them up to $9.00 or so within a year if they're hard workers. That's damn good money for a high school kid working 20ish hours a week. IMO of course. The problem is, most kids think they're worth $11-15 an hour to sack groceries or mop bathrooms.
    Look at it from an employee's point of view—if you're making $7.50 an hour and you can get fired and the walk into the grocery store across the street and make $7.50 an hour there, where's the incentive to care? We had that problem when I managed a Burger King—people would blow up over something stupid and walk out, or burn out and stop showing up, and then you'd see them next week at Taco Bell doing the same thing for the same wages. They knew damn well how many fast food restaurants there were in Norman and that they all pay minimum wage, so who needs Burger King in particular?

    Pride in your work? Satisfaction with a job well done? It's 2018: in most corporations that gets you the same $7.50 an hour.

  22. #47

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    For me personally, it's hit and miss. Only on rare occasions have I had such bad service that I walked out. In regard to the original question though, it doesn't only apply to restaurants. Grocery, clothing, and home improvement stores, industry, construction, contractors ... you name it. Finding good hands can be tough. In my line of work, we try to be teachers to new hands, but now days many don’t want to listen. They come in the doors thinking they know everything about everything. They can’t be taught. What they consider to be doing quality work, and turning out a quality product often leaves me shaking my head. And then they want to argue with you. When I started out with the my current employer, almost 30 years ago, everyone was on the same page, and all the older hands were teachers. And if you couldn’t or wouldn’t do what was expected of you, you were walked to the door. They didn’t mess around.


    It’s not only about keeping your tea glass full. Maybe since the restaurant industry is so much more in the public eye, and obvious to most people, that’s what they see most. but a lot of other industries have their winners too.

  23. #48

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    Haven't been to Hall's, they're not currently on our list due to Elise's ALEC alignment and general political views and possible abuse of her office (minor, but still). And yeah, I know, I have no idea what the owners of the other pizza places around here do politics-wise, they may not meet our approval either, but at least they're not out in the open with their bad legislation.
    You're a better person for paying attention to those things, which reminds me. Where is your liquor store again?

  24. #49

    Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Quote Originally Posted by BBatesokc View Post
    What really aggravates us is when we show up at a restaurant and they tell us there will be a wait (20-45+ minutes) and when you look into the restaurant they have numerous empty tables.
    I will defend this, having worked in the industry. Yes, it's about having enough staff, but restaurants schedule based on typical sales. Especially when you're considering people who are in a tipped based economy, having too many of them there than what is normally required is bad for everyone. So sometimes, you end up with not enough people. When I waited tables the rules were that we could have 3 to 4 tops (tables) assuming they were normal size. Basically, provide good service for up to 16-20 people in total. Any more than that and service is going to suck. So a restaurant might plan for 20 tops if that is their normal business for a given night, and have 5-6 wait staff. Then, if they suddenly end up having more business than expected that night, they can either overload their staff or have people wait. Neither solution is ideal.

  25. Default Re: Is service nearing a crisis level in OKC?

    Ditto on Texas De Brazil. I though my old man was going to have a meltdown when they wouldn't seat us in a practically empty restaurant. 2 of our 8 adults hadn't shown up yet, and we were forced to stand there with an infant and a toddler until our whole party got there. They missed out on a few drink orders.

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