Rother Shrine

[brian72]

The Catholic (meaning "universal") church is believed to be the one church founded by Christ. It traces it's origins directly to Peter from whom all legitimate Popes descended. Cardinals are descended from Christ's Apostles. Other Christian denominations split from the Catholic Church because of doctrinal or political differences, and sometimes social. The Orthodox Church contests which is the true descendant church, but they both started from the same place. Many believe it is semantics whether the Orthodox split from the Catholics or the Catholics from the Orthodox. They went their separate ways, but share most doctrinal beliefs.

No, the Pope isn't Christ or God and no one claims he is. He is head of the Catholic Church. He is believed to be the current in the uninterrupted line of succession from St. Peter, a direct charge of Jesus. Other denominations and faiths have other structures to lead them which may or may not rest the final authority in a singular person.

Seems to me that the Catholic faith is more based on merits and rituals than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, it just gives that impression

[Quicker]

Seems to me that the Catholic faith is more based on merits and rituals than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, it just gives that impression

What’s your point?

[Plutonic Panda]

Seems to me that the Catholic faith is more based on merits and rituals than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, it just gives that impression

sounds like to me your just bitching for no reason

[Rover]

Seems to me that the Catholic faith is more based on merits and rituals than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, it just gives that impression

Sounds like you know absolutely nothing about it. But spreading falsehoods is fun, right?
But maybe you are just saying that because you mistake works done because of faith for ones done to try to earn points with God. If going to church to worship God and praying is ritual only then I guess the real Christians are those who don’t go to church, don’t pray, judge others, and are arrogant enough to believe that they alone possess the keys to God.

[okcpulse]

Does the catholic bible have Exodus 20:4 ? Or is that just words from the Ancient Past? Spend more time on these things than what Christ actually wants us to do.

The Catholic bible has seven more books than the protestant bible. Yes, Exodus 20:4 is there, and this shrine is not what that scripture was about.

[okcpulse]

That's difference in the faith brian. I'm not Catholic and not a fan of Catholicism, but time spent ridiculing other denomination is not time well spent. Catholics out there, please correct me if i'm wrong here, but this is NOT idolatry. They pray THROUGH the saints because the view is that man does not pray directly to God. The saints are merely a means to the end. In Protestantism, we don't understand that because we have a different, and more direct, relationship where we do talk directly to God.

You can dig whatever you want out of whatever translation of the Bible that you want, and it will either help or hurt whatever argument you have. That's why we have denominations and partly why we have the split between Catholicism and Protestantism. At the end of the day, we're all part of the same team though. So why try to "prove them wrong"?

This campus is going to be a value-added project for Christianity regardless of what group is building. It's going to serve the community in ways that the Catholic Church cannot in OKC right now. We should be happy for them.

You are close... we ask the saints to pray for us. Being raised protestant and coming into the Catholic church 8 years ago it took me a while to understand what that really meant. However, we do pray directly to God through the Our Father prayer, and through our prayer intentions for those in need of prayer. And you are correct, we are all brothers and sisters in Christ.

[okcpulse]

I have friends that are Catholic too. So my questions are what is definition of Catholicism ? And is the Pope, Christ on earth?

The Pope is not Christ on Earth. The Pope is the authority over the church on Earth and that authority is given through Christ. Catholic is derived from Greek meaning "universal". She holds the traditions and practices from the church's beginning, including the sacraments of communion, baptism, reconciliation, marriage, the holy orders, annointing of sick.

[brian72]

Sounds like you know absolutely nothing about it. But spreading falsehoods is fun, right?
But maybe you are just saying that because you mistake works done because of faith for ones done to try to earn points with God. If going to church to worship God and praying is ritual only then I guess the real Christians are those who don’t go to church, don’t pray, judge others, and are arrogant enough to believe that they alone possess the keys to God.

No spreading falsehoods, just asking questions.

[okcpulse]

Seems to me that the Catholic faith is more based on merits and rituals than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, it just gives that impression

The Catholic faith is not based on merits at all. It is a celebration of the liturgy of the word and the liturgy of the eucharist. In my 8 years as a Catholic there isn't any merits... at all. The faith's practice... liturgy of the word, the eucharist, reconciliation, adoration... all of it is ordered to strengthen your personal relationship with Christ. The focus is not on the traditions themselves, but ultimately what is achieved... staying in a state of grace with Christ.

The fundamental different has always been that Protestants believe in being saved by faith alone, and Catholics believe in being saved by faith and works... works meaning helping the poor, visiting those in prison, etc.

Don't hesitate to PM me if you have any questions.

[Rover]

The Catholic faith is not based on merits at all. It is a celebration of the liturgy of the word and the liturgy of the eucharist. In my 8 years as a Catholic there isn't any merits... at all. The faith's practice... liturgy of the word, the eucharist, reconciliation, adoration... all of it is ordered to strengthen your personal relationship with Christ. The focus is not on the traditions themselves, but ultimately what is achieved... staying in a state of grace with Christ.

The fundamental different has always been that Protestants believe in being saved by faith alone, and Catholics believe in being saved by faith and works... works meaning helping the poor, visiting those in prison, etc.

Don't hesitate to PM me if you have any questions.

I might offer that the Catholics also believe in salvation through faith, but the works are the result of the faith. They are a symptom, not the reason for salvation. Basically, it says that if you are saved you should want to act correspondingly. Acts don’t replace faith.

[bombermwc]

Again not a Catholic (I'm Disciples of Christ and pretty hardcore against the whole Catholic organization), but seems like (and this shouldn't surprise anyone here) that a lot of people outside of Catholicism have a misunderstanding about a lot of the points of the faith and have developed their own opinions without truly understanding it. The whole merit/confession/etc thing is VERY misunderstood, as well as the saints, which is what started this whole mess on the previous page. I'm not going to pretend to understand it all myself, but i'm also not going to ridicule. They're on the same team I am here. But i wouldn't spend time ridiculing another non-Christian faith either....what purpose does that serve except to give Christianity a bad name? We're supposed to be the reflected light of the Lord and that behavior would fades that reflection.

But i'll go back to my previous statement, what does that have to do with building this structure? The Universal Church covers both Catholic and Protestant. Most Protestant denominations even include phrases in believing in the "Holy Catholic Church" in some of the hymnal prayers. If you don't know what that means, i would high encourage you to do some research on it through some REPUTABLE sources. Again, this campus is going to help serve more people in a single facility than can currently fit in multiple facilities. If you've ever been in places like First Presbyterian Church on Western, you can appreciate the grandeur of the large structure for a service. The resources to help the community from consolidating the efforts makes a big impact too.

I'm not a fan of the design chosen, BUT it more accurately reflects who this person was and what his mission work focused on. A Gothic structure wouldn't make any sense!

[Plutonic Panda]

Ground has broken on this project!

https://www.news9.com/story/41265315...honored-priest

[Laramie]

Blessed Father Stanley Rother Shrine




Oklahoma City's Basilica will be the largest Roman Catholic Church in Oklahoma.

[amocore]

Hello,

They have been clearing and leveling the site with heavy equipment for over a week now.

Good to see some projects going forward and people working in these complicated period.

[Midtowner]

Seems to me that the Catholic faith is more based on merits and rituals than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, it just gives that impression

Much more complex than that--and it kind of sounds like the greatest exposure to the Church you have had has been what some highly biased and ill-informed minister told you at some point. Catholic doctrine is a combination of scripture and tradition and there is a huge diversity of opinion within the Catholic church as to what is true and what is not. For example, the Catholic Church does not subscribe to the idea that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. And to get in to what the official position is, you'd almost have to be a lawyer with some sort of database access to the conclusions of various figureheads--and that'd still be open to interpretation.

It's one of the things I really appreciate about the Church--rather than simply accepting everything at face value, there is a lot of debate and consideration and scholarship and philosophizing over just about every concept imaginable. You probably wouldn't find too many Catholics, for example, who would be all that comfortable with someone proof-texting them to prove some sort of doctrinal point and much of that work was done by some of the Western world's greatest historical thinkers. Folks like St. Jerome, St. Thomas Aquinas, etc.

I really appreciate my Catholic education and the opportunity to do such deep dives into Church history and philosophy. An understanding of Church history is an understanding of Western European history, and you can't really have one without the other.

[Ryan]

Seems to me that the Catholic faith is more based on merits and rituals than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, it just gives that impression

That’s sounds pretty hateful. Are you an evangelical?
It’s comments like that which make me glad I don’t go to baptist church anymore.

[Plutonic Panda]

Any chance we can keep thread dedicated to construction updates?

Work has started and is beginning to go into full swing. This project will be larger than a lot of people realize. I wish we had better streets in this area.

[SOONER8693]

Any chance we can keep thread dedicated to construction updates?

Work has started and is beginning to go into full swing. This project will be larger than a lot of people realize. I wish we had better streets in this area.

It will be a few hundred feet west of I-35.

[catcherinthewry]

It will be a few hundred feet west of I-35.

And bounded by 4 lane SE 89th on the north and 6 lane divided S Shields on the west. You've obviously never been in this area.

[NavySeabee]

I predict many of the properties on the east end facing I-35 will one by one disappear. I expect the church to acquire every property all way up to the Countryside Village. They will either get it through direct purchase or someone in the church purchasing it and donating it to the church. A church that size is going to need access from every direction it can get.

[Plutonic Panda]

It will be a few hundred feet west of I-35.

Right but there is a lack of sidewalks, landscaping, and overall beautification in this area. Light rail going down the middle of shields(grade separated) connecting downtown Moore, Norman, and OKC would logically have a stop nearby. That should be a long term goal for planners. Stuff like reconstructed roads, sidewalks on BOTH sides of the street, landscaping, aesthetically pleasing features, and stricter design codes for nearby properties should be in play in the short-medium term.

[catcherinthewry]

Right but there is a lack of sidewalks, landscaping, and overall beautification in this area. Light rail going down the middle of shields(grade separated) connecting downtown Moore, Norman, and OKC would logically have a stop nearby. That should be a long term goal for planners. Stuff like reconstructed roads, sidewalks on BOTH sides of the street, landscaping, aesthetically pleasing features, and stricter design codes for nearby properties should be in play in the short-medium term.

So you're cool with the streets now, right?

[Laramie]

Right but there is a lack of sidewalks, landscaping, and overall beautification in this area. Light rail going down the middle of shields(grade separated) connecting downtown Moore, Norman, and OKC would logically have a stop nearby. That should be a long term goal for planners. Stuff like reconstructed roads, sidewalks on BOTH sides of the street, landscaping, aesthetically pleasing features, and stricter design codes for nearby properties should be in play in the short-medium term.

With the money being spent on this project; the city will take care of the sidewalks and support infrastructure for a project of this magnitude.

This Basilica & Rother Shine will evolve over time since it will be a National Shine (tourists).

Wouldn't be surprised to see a few new motels & hotels close to this development.

[mugofbeer]

Is this being built on the old pitch and putt golf course?

[catcherinthewry]

Is this being built on the old pitch and putt golf course?

It is being built on the site of the old 9 hole Duffy Martin course, Brookside.