Rother Shrine

[Mr. Blue Sky]

You seemed to have taken a special interest in separation of church & state for this project.

Just remember, this country was built on religious freedom.

Great pics Pete, thanks for those drone shots...

This country was founded by people who had all seen the damage of church and state mingled together. They very much didn’t want a “religious test” for public office, Christianity isn’t mentioned once in the Constitution. In fact, “God” to (almost) all of the founders was a creator who did not believe in any of the Abrahamic religions, or any religion that believed in the supernatural. Their “God” was one of the Deists. Separation of any church or religion from the state was an important position for most of our founders, as found in letters, essays, etc.

I’ve made my point and there’s no use my continuing this here. The transportation being subsidized by the city is probably okay if there is demand, as d-usa noted. But not for providing landscaping or infrastructure. The Catholic Church is not a Costco. I mean no disrespect and I hate that making this point comes across as adversarial. I only responded here because of posters proposing use of city services, and even MAPS money for assistance in servicing a Roman Catholic church and shrine.

While I oppose any use of public money, I offer best wishes for the church and shrine.

[Laramie]

Here's my point...

...how convenient.

Supreme Court rejects case to remove ‘In God We Trust’ from US currency: https://nypost.com/2019/06/11/suprem...m-us-currency/

[Swake]

Here's my point...

...how convenient.

Supreme Court rejects case to remove ‘In God We Trust’ from US currency: https://nypost.com/2019/06/11/suprem...m-us-currency/

Added 1957 during McCarthyism

[Celebrator]

Added 1957 during McCarthyism

For paper currency. It has been on coins since 1864. https://www.treasury.gov/about/educa...-we-trust.aspx

And I think to say that it was just in response to McCarthyism (which was waning by 1957) is too narrow, lawmakers (84th Congress seated at the time was majority Democrat in the House and the Senate, by the way) also wanted to strike a clear distinction at the height of the Cold War with the USSR, a nation where atheism was promoted in the schools.

[okcpulse]

This country was founded by people who had all seen the damage of church and state mingled together. They very much didn’t want a “religious test” for public office, Christianity isn’t mentioned once in the Constitution. In fact, “God” to (almost) all of the founders was a creator who did not believe in any of the Abrahamic religions, or any religion that believed in the supernatural. Their “God” was one of the Deists. Separation of any church or religion from the state was an important position for most of our founders, as found in letters, essays, etc.

We have to be very careful with revisionist history that casts our founding fathers as deists. They were not. This debate is increasingly becoming popular in the secular argument against America's historical Christian heritage. The closest to a deist was Benjamin Franklin, who was raised as a Puritan and whose early commitment to deism didn't last long. John Adams was a devout Unitarian who did not identify with the doctrines with his Congregationalist upbringing. Years after Benjamin Franklin's claim to embrace deism, Franklin believed God required worship, answers prayer and intervenes in history. Franklin even requested a pause for prayer during the Constitutional Convention to seek guidance and reconciliation during one of the most heated debates. Thomas Jefferson also believed in an active God that sustained the world by His providence.

While it is true that separation of church and state was very near to the hearts of our Founding Fathers, especially Thomas Jefferson, it is very important to remember what it really means. It gives people the legal right to freely live their faith, even in public, without fear of government coercion. The motive was never to build a thick wall between church and state, nor to keep faith out of public institutions, but rather to keep the state from exercising its authority over the church.

[bombermwc]

The motive was never to build a thick wall between church and state, nor to keep faith out of public institutions, but rather to keep the state from exercising its authority over the church.

Or vice versa.....

[Swake]

We have to be very careful with revisionist history that casts our founding fathers as deists. They were not. This debate is increasingly becoming popular in the secular argument against America's historical Christian heritage. The closest to a deist was Benjamin Franklin, who was raised as a Puritan and whose early commitment to deism didn't last long. John Adams was a devout Unitarian who did not identify with the doctrines with his Congregationalist upbringing. Years after Benjamin Franklin's claim to embrace deism, Franklin believed God required worship, answers prayer and intervenes in history. Franklin even requested a pause for prayer during the Constitutional Convention to seek guidance and reconciliation during one of the most heated debates. Thomas Jefferson also believed in an active God that sustained the world by His providence.

While it is true that separation of church and state was very near to the hearts of our Founding Fathers, especially Thomas Jefferson, it is very important to remember what it really means. It gives people the legal right to freely live their faith, even in public, without fear of government coercion. The motive was never to build a thick wall between church and state, nor to keep faith out of public institutions, but rather to keep the state from exercising its authority over the church.

A note: "Uni"tarian as opposed to Trinitarian. Diest. And that's just the start of what is wrong here.

[Ryan]

Sounds like this guy wants to the government to force religion on people

[Ryan]

A note: "Uni"tarian as opposed to Trinitarian. Diest. And that's just the start of what is wrong here.

Or a simpler way to avoid people’s misinterpretation of the separation of church and state is to just keep the church out of government and vice versa. You’re argument for injection of religion in the government paints a clearly biased picture. Asalaam brother

[Laramie]

The Oklahoma City Archdioceses has raised more than $80 million in pledges; the Rother National Shrine and Basilica is estimated to cost $40 million; you can probably expect some cost overruns.

Bolt Company of OKC signed a contract with the Archdioceses to build the development for $40 million. Don't know if this development will reflect a more simpler 'ordinary man' type structure or a magnificent edifice viewed from interstate I-35. It will be a great addition to Oklahoma City's growth & development; adding something of significance to the south of I-40/I-240.

Here's the Archdioceses' link for the Rother Shrine: https://archokc.org/shrine

[Swake]

Or a simpler way to avoid people’s misinterpretation of the separation of church and state is to just keep the church out of government and vice versa. You’re argument for injection of religion in the government paints a clearly biased picture. Asalaam brother

I'm not arguing for any injection of religion at all. I'm truly trying not to argue, but the fact remains that many, if not most of the primary founding fathers were Deist/Unitarian. Or non-Religious at all. Jefferson's big push for separation of church and states was in part due his personal very strong Deism.

All I am trying to say is that to at once say that the only Diest founding father was Franklin and then in the next sentence mention John Adam as a great example of a non-Diest and devout Unitarian is silly. ALL Unitarians at that time were Diest, Unitarianism in the very name reflects that Deism.

[Laramie]

I'm not arguing for any injection of religion at all. I'm truly trying not to argue, but the fact remains that many, if not most of the primary founding fathers were Deist/Unitarian. Or non-Religious at all. Jefferson's big push for separation of church and states was in part due his personal very strong Deism.

All I am trying to say is that to at once say that the only Diest founding father was Franklin and then in the next sentence mention John Adam as a great example of a non-Diest and devout Unitarian is silly. ALL Unitarians at that time were Diest, Unitarianism in the very name reflects that Deism.

I know, because you mentioned on another forum that you have atheist views; so IMO your feelings about this development is so revealing. Didn't want to go there; however, just wanted to give insight and a clear understanding of who you are, Christians refer to as "A wolf in sheep's clothing." Nothing personal--It doesn't really matter b/c all views are respected.

BACK ON TOPIC: Rother Shrine...

[Plutonic Panda]

Sounds like this guy wants to the government to force religion on people

Yeap. Because, as we all know, it all starts with the government providing transit services and having a stop in the middle of a bus line at a church. From there the writing is in the wall.

[Laramie]

Is this one of the chapels inside the section of The Rother Shrine?


When they finally add a name to the Basilica, you'll see a few more pieces added to the structure.

In December 2016, Pope Francis declared him a martyr, which means he was killed “in hatred of the faith.” The declaration was historic because Rother is the first U.S.-born male and U.S. priest named a martyr by the Roman Catholic Church.--Oklahoman, September 24, 2017

Rother's remains will be housed inside the shrine; if he is canonized a saint; they'll need The Peake or the Oklahoma Gaylord Memorial Stadium for canonization ceremonies.

A decade after his martyrdom on July 28, 1981, McSherry removed Rother’s heart enshrined inside a black, plastic sheet within a wooden box.

"There was about a half-gallon jar with blood in it, and the metal part of the jar had rusted but the blood had not congealed," McSherry, later a priest at St. Patrick Catholic Church in Oklahoma City, told Oklahoma Gazette in 2006.

--Enid News & Eagle: https://www.enidnews.com/opinion/col...477eda518.html

Oklahoma Gazette related: https://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/h...nt?oid=2947451

[Swake]

I know, because you mentioned on another forum that you have atheist views; so IMO your feelings about this development is so revealing. Didn't want to go there; however, just wanted to give insight and a clear understanding of who you are, Christians refer to as "A wolf in sheep's clothing." Nothing personal--It doesn't really matter b/c all views are respected.

BACK ON TOPIC: Rother Shrine...

Nope, not at all. I'm actually a third generation Unitarian.

I just hate the poisonous relationship between much of the "Evangelical" community and ugly, hate based Trumpist politics that if Jesus actually showed up, would hate him as a socialist libz.

[Snowman]

Southside catholics trying to go mass might, though, and if there is enough demand for that let's serve it with a stop.

From the location they chose, it seems pretty clear they did not prioritize public transit access.

[oklip955]

As far as the rest of the money above the amount for the Rother shrine, that is going back to parishes for projects in the parishes. Yes part of it will go to the Archdiocese for projects too. For an example in my parish St Monica's in Edmond, the money went to put in a new play ground for the kids. The old one was just something someone built out of old pipe and metal. Not really very nice. Now the kids have some place safe (well except for the virus restrictions right now) We Catholics in the parishes raised this money for a purpose. I am very pleased with this outcome. Yes I did donate to it. Another thing with pledges, not everyone will be able to give the full amount pledged. This shrine which may not make a difference to most non Catholics but it will be a draw to the southside. Just like any draw, the city will need to improve roads. This will benefit anyone who drives that way.

[Laramie]

Has the Oklahoma City Archdiocese mentioned or hinted for 'naming' the Basilica...

What we know about the property:

The Rother shrine and new church on archdiocesan property at 9016 Shields Boulevard; the archdiocese purchased the 53-acre Brookside Golf Club property near SW 89 and Shields Boulevard for $2.1 million in March 2015.

Peter De Keratry (Director) said images of the new church and Rother shrine are featured in conceptual drawings, but the actual building design likely will change somewhat from the early drawings.

New church will be the largest Catholic church in Oklahoma.

De Keratry said it is intentionally being constructed in an “overtly” Catholic style and, positioned so that people will be able to see it from the heavily traveled S Interstate 35 corridor.

Archdiocese's desire for a shrine to pay tribute to its native son, Rother. The shrine will provide a permanent resting place for the priest's remains, which were moved from his native Okarche to an Oklahoma City cemetery earlier this year.

One Church, Many Disciples Campaign: Pledges (March, 2020) $91,357,993. Cash received $38,734,358

Link: (Open Parish Campaign's update 3-6-2020) https://archokc.org/campaign

[bombermwc]

The Oklahoma City Archdioceses has raised more than $80 million in pledges; the Rother National Shrine and Basilica is estimated to cost $40 million; you can probably expect some cost overruns.

Bolt Company of OKC signed a contract with the Archdioceses to build the development for $40 million. Don't know if this development will reflect a more simpler 'ordinary man' type structure or a magnificent edifice viewed from interstate I-35. It will be a great addition to Oklahoma City's growth & development; adding something of significance to the south of I-40/I-240.

Here's the Archdioceses' link for the Rother Shrine: https://archokc.org/shrine

Well if they do have sufficient funds, then they may be able to complete more than the first phase (40 mil). If you look at the masterplan, there's a WHOLE lot more than what the planned on doing at first.

[Laramie]

.

Blessed Stanley Rother Shrine Site Cam Live Feed

https://www.archokc.org/shrinewebcam

[Martin]

happened to drive by the site this past weekend... it's a minor gripe, but i really wish more of the existing, mature trees could have been preserved.

but... this will still be an overall net-positive for that area.

a few years ago, frontline took over the gym site just to the north of this. i can't find confirmation anywhere on their site, but i was under the impression that frontline was an outreach of the catholic church... but i'm not so sure. does that sound right?

[jdizzle]

happened to drive by the site this past weekend... it's a minor gripe, but i really wish more of the existing, mature trees could have been preserved.

but... this will still be an overall net-positive for that area.

a few years ago, frontline took over the gym site just to the north of this. i can't find confirmation anywhere on their site, but i was under the impression that frontline was an outreach of the catholic church... but i'm not so sure. does that sound right?

Haha, I do not think so. They are a nondenominational church, and are far different from the Catholic Church.

[Martin]

Haha, I do not think so. They are a nondenominational church, and are far different from the Catholic Church.

gotcha... don't know where (or if) i heard that but somehow i was under that impression.

[Laramie]

Retreat, pilgrimage planned to learn about martyred priest

The Gospel of Life School is inviting young adults ages 18-30 to part or all of a 24-hour retreat to pray, reflect and learn about the life of Blessed Stanley Rother. Due to the COVID-19 pandemic and the vulnerability of the elderly and terminally ill served through the GOLD ministry, precautions for physical distancing throughout this retreat/pilgrimage will be strictly followed. Participants are asked to wear a mask.

The event will be from 8 a.m. June 5 to 10 a.m. June 6 and will include a visit to the Catholic Pastoral Center, Mass at the Good Shepherd Chapel at the John Paul II GOLD residence in Moore, an opportunity to pray at the temporary tomb of Blessed Stanley Rother at Resurrection Cemetery, a conference with Fr. Don Wolf at Holy Trinity Church, Okarche, and lunch at Eischen’s. Also on the schedule is a meditative prayer walk from Rother’s birthplace to Holy Trinity Cemetery, eucharistic adoration, praise and worship at Blessed Stanley Rother Barn and an overnight silent all-night adoration at Good Shepherd Chapel.

For more information, contact Sister Maria of the Trinity at srmaria@gospeloflifedisciples.org

[drinner-okc]

been a lot of activity on the land since last post here. Being sent home to work I had not traveled Shields since early March. Friday I went to clean out my desk @ work and drove by. Multiple dirt moving machines onsite. Where the station and parking lot were is a huge excavated hole. the whole golf course was has been dozed. The pond on the 9th fairway has a pump with a filler for water tanks. I was surprised. no pics though, sorry.