Rother Shrine

[Martin]

pitch 'n putt was south of earlywine park on sw 119th just west of may. i think it was approximately where hickory creek neighborhood sits today.

[Plutonic Panda]

So you're cool with the streets now, right?

SW 89th should have a median and landscaping but yes other than that the capacity seems adequate.

[Plutonic Panda]

With the money being spent on this project; the city will take care of the sidewalks and support infrastructure for a project of this magnitude.

This Basilica & Rother Shine will evolve over time since it will be a National Shine (tourists).

Wouldn't be surprised to see a few new motels & hotels close to this development.

There needs to be enhanced bus service in the mean time once this beauty opens up.

[Laramie]

There needs to be enhanced bus service in the mean time once this beauty opens up.

Transit funds could enhance the area to the Basilica, $87 million in MAPS 4 Transit: https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-4/transit

Good point, I-35 off SW/SE 89th Street is growing, preliminary plans mentioned the I-35 corridor as part of the future Super Highway. Bus transit extends to 74th; it could be extended further into Moore similar to 015 that splinters into Midwest City or 024 to Norman.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Transit funds could enhance the area to the Basilica, $87 million in MAPS 4 Transit: https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-4/transit

Good point, I-35 off SW/SE 89th Street is growing, preliminary plans mentioned the I-35 corridor as part of the future Super Highway. Bus transit extends to 74th; it could be extended further into Moore similar to 015 that splinters into Midwest City or 024 to Norman.

If the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City would like to pay for that -- fine. The city shoudn't be spending a dime to help get people to a religious facility. If they can afford to build this thing - they can pay for people to get there.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

There needs to be enhanced bus service in the mean time once this beauty opens up.

Again -- if the Catholic Church pays for it.

[Plutonic Panda]

Again -- if the Catholic Church pays for it.

It would be used by many more people than just those going to the church and even for those who are they are paying fares and likely spending money elsewhere supporting the economy so what is the issue?

[Mr. Blue Sky]

With the money being spent on this project; the city will take care of the sidewalks and support infrastructure for a project of this magnitude.

This Basilica & Rother Shine will evolve over time since it will be a National Shine (tourists).

Wouldn't be surprised to see a few new motels & hotels close to this development.

With all due respect, that's a non-starter; or it should be.

I understand your strong feelings about this, but the fact is this: The Basilica and the Rother Shrine is a church and religious monument for the Roman Catholic faithful. Whether it's seen as a holy place of God or as an ostentatious display of religiosity, one thing we can all agree on -- these are religious buildings. The government, at no level, should be spending time, at all, on transportation considerations, the tourist appeal, or anything else that is distinctly, and singularly, religious in nature.

[Midtowner]

With all due respect, that's a non-starter; or it should be.

I understand your strong feelings about this, but the fact is this: The Basilica and the Rother Shrine is a church and religious monument for the Roman Catholic faithful. Whether it's seen as a holy place of God or as an ostentatious display of religiosity, one thing we can all agree on -- these are religious buildings. The government, at no level, should be spending time, at all, on transportation considerations, the tourist appeal, or anything else that is distinctly, and singularly, religious in nature.

How about the city provide transit options to the city solely based upon need and not at all upon religiosity, and if a religious monument needs accommodation, it might qualify based upon need in exactly the same manner as a Wal Mart?

[bombermwc]

Sidewalks should be going in for all new construction anyway, but that should be a cost shouldered by the entity developing the land (in this case, the church).

EMBARK will decide if it warrants a bus stop. Chances are, it won't. There are plenty of other large business areas that do not get one, so why would this be given one just because its a church? The church could certainly ask EMBARK about it though.

I agree, this is going to be a pretty big deal and in a way that non-catholic churches are not. People dont come to OKC to look at the sprawling campus of Crossings. But people do travel the WORLD to see large cathedrals, which also happen to mostly be catholic because of when they were built. So we may (it's not a gurantee because there are plenty of them out there that people do not come visit) see traffic coming to visit. But i think the above commentors are over-estimating how much it will attract. We're talking about a fairly obscure and new person to the game and we're not going to see traffic like Notre Dame or the National Cathedral. Especially not at first when there's a LOT that's not finished.

[GoGators]

It is nice to finally see a new church being built in OKC that doesn't borrow its design from a Super Walmart.

[Laramie]

You are not going to see an enhanced bus transit in that area overnight. Edmond, Midwest City and Norman have limited bus service from OKC's Embark. Moore's in a better position IMO than Norman or Midwest City with the growth development south between 74th & 89th streets that streams into Moore.

Now there will be a National Shrine and Basilica here of which there are less than 90 of these in our country. It's not like they are going to suddenly decide that there will be an hourly Basilica bus or something; PluPlan just mentioned better service--nothing new that he hasn't previously advocated for our city. Bus service does extend to 74th Street--89th Street has a similar growth trend. Moore is growing, it will be better served with a future transit plan co-parterned with OKC.

Many of the tourists who will be visiting the shine will have better connections and transit means once this edifice opens; really doubt if they will be taking a bus, again it's not like the city is going to all of a sudden focus solely on the shrine. As bombermwc mentioned the Archdiocese will shoulder the sidewalk infrastructure as it has done with its churches and schools in the city.

[catcherinthewry]

The government, at no level, should be spending time, at all, on transportation considerations, the tourist appeal, or anything else that is distinctly, and singularly, religious in nature.

If the Shrine becomes a tourist draw and tourists would use a bus to get there (doubtful in OKC) then it would merit a bus stop. Busses are supposed to go where the demand is. That's why there are Metro stops in Paris near Notre Dame and Sacre Coeur and Tube stops in London near Westminster Abbey and St. Paul's cathedral.

[TheTravellers]

If the Shrine becomes a tourist draw and tourists would use a bus to get there (doubtful in OKC) then it would merit a bus stop. Busses are supposed to go where the demand is. That's why there are Metro stops in Paris near Notre Dame and Sacre Coeur and Tube stops in London near Westminster Abbey and St. Paul's cathedral.

To be fair, there are hundreds of Metro stops all over Paris and the suburbs about every half mile apart, if not shorter, so Notre Dame and Sacre Coeur don't have them just because they're tourist destinations, they're just part of the huge network.

[HangryHippo]

It is nice to finally see a new church being built in OKC that doesn't borrow its design from a Super Walmart.

This. It'll be very nice to see something beyond LifeChurch Neighborhood Market for Christ.

[catcherinthewry]

To be fair, there are hundreds of Metro stops all over Paris and the suburbs about every half mile apart, if not shorter, so Notre Dame and Sacre Coeur don't have them just because they're tourist destinations, they're just part of the huge network.

Of course it's not "just because they're tourist destinations". It's because of demand. And there is demand in large part because of the tourist destinations. You put stops where the demand is and if Rother Shrine creates sufficient demand then it will merit a stop.

[TheTravellers]

Of course it's not "just because they're tourist destinations". It's because of demand. And there is demand in large part because of the tourist destinations. You put stops where the demand is and if Rother Shrine creates sufficient demand then it will merit a stop.

Yeah, I somewhat agree with your premise, but the use of the Paris Metro isn't the best example. "demand in large part because of the tourist destinations" for the Paris Metro just isn't really accurate - as I said, they literally have stops every half mile or less, no matter what's around the stop, be it tourist destination or just a neighborhood (one (unverified) source I saw said that wherever you are in Paris, you're within 500 meters of a Metro stop).

And, sadly, given the way our bus system is seen in OKC, I doubt tourists in any significant number will be using the bus to get there, even if a stop is created.

[David]

Southside catholics trying to go mass might, though, and if there is enough demand for that let's serve it with a stop.

[TheTravellers]

Southside catholics trying to go mass might, though, and if there is enough demand for that let's serve it with a stop.

Good point, didn't think about that since I'm not really religious.

[Pete]

[Laramie]

What's the difference between a cathedral and a basilica?

[Plutonic Panda]

Wow, Pete. Your drone shots really give perspective on this project. Thank you a million for that.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

I understand the need to talk around these issues and talk about how the government is involved in Paris and London with transportation and religious stops. We’re not in the UK or France, this is the United States and we have a separation between church and state.

I get the emotional tug for Catholics. I truly do. The desire to post pictures, videos - even documentaries - about Mr. Rother in this thread. I get it. That is all fine, of course, and is your right exercising freedom of religion. The flip side of that though is that we also have a separation of church and state, and talk about the city paying for infrastructure, landscaping, etc. should not be happening. Some of us feel very strongly that religious entities provide for their own needs and believe it is unconstitutional for the government - at any level - to provide financial assistance to a singularly religious attraction.

By the way, to be clear, I would feel the exact same way if this was a Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, Scientology, Mormon, or any other pick-your-religion project. I also understand this can be a touchy subject in a state like Oklahoma. I’m not trying to be argumentative or tone deaf here, only expressing my concerns at what some are proposing our city be involved with.

[Laramie]

You seemed to have taken a special interest in separation of church & state for this project.

Just remember, this country was built on religious freedom.

Great pics Pete, thanks for those drone shots...

[d-usa]

The Shrine should not get a stop simply because it is a religious building. At the same time it also should not be refused a stop simply because it is a religious building.

Stops should be allocated based on people movement and traffic control and infrastructure reasons, if the Shrine merits a stop it merits a stop.