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  1. #126

    Default Re: President Trump on the Economy

    Also interesting that in their rush to prove Cruz wrong they compare receipts to GDP & inflation. As if they have no idea why those two metrics are going up so quickly.

  2. Default Re: President Trump on the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    So essentially you are arguing that it is too early to tell, but you're sure we will collect less on income that hasn't even been earned in 2018 yet. Gonna be hard to come to an understanding with you I see.
    No. What Iím arguing is that revenue has dropped during the months in which the tax cuts have been in effect. I happen to believe that theyíll continue to decline, but my contributions thus far have pertained to what has already transpired.

    Anyway, now that Iíve sufficiently addressed your inquiries, Iíll let you and others carry on with ignoring mine.
    ...this shortest straw has been pulled for you

  3. #128

    Default Re: President Trump on the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by AFCM View Post
    No. What Iím arguing is that revenue has dropped during the months in which the tax cuts have been in effect. I happen to believe that theyíll continue to decline, but my contributions thus far have pertained to what has already transpired.

    Anyway, now that Iíve sufficiently addressed your inquiries, Iíll let you and others carry on with ignoring mine.
    I already was sufficiently sure of your "opinion". But thanks for clarifying.

  4. Default Re: President Trump on the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    I already was sufficiently sure of your "opinion". But thanks for clarifying.
    This isn’t a matter of just opinion; it’s fairly well established by data. Did adjusted revenues decline? Yes or no?

    Did Obama inherit increased government spending and decreased revenue? Yes or no?

    What was your point about our defense budget during the last year and/or after combat operations in Iraq?
    ...this shortest straw has been pulled for you

  5. #130

    Default Re: President Trump on the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by AFCM View Post
    This isn’t a matter of just opinion; it’s fairly well established by data. Did adjusted revenues decline? Yes or no?

    Did Obama inherit increased government spending and decreased revenue? Yes or no?

    What was your point about our defense budget during the last year and/or after combat operations in Iraq?
    Well established data that takes a lot of opinion to come to a conclusion. Don't oversell it. Treasury doesn't distinguish what payments are '17 tax earning related or '18 estimated tax payments. Tax year 18 hasn't even concluded yet. The jury is still out for certain. Come back in April and let me know how it works out.

    Obama inherited increased spending that he gave to himself (he was a Senator in case you forgot). That time period was pretty bizarre time in history. Trying to blame one party for something that took many many decisions to get too is a fools errand. I think we have discussed this on this board how the president really isn't the final arbiter of the economy. That being said, the going story on Obama is the he cut spending (after it ballooned in the beginning). Coincidentally the party that took over was not his own. I contribute much of that friction for the reason in reductions. Remember the sequester?

    My point on defense was that I suspect defense spending probably hasn't decreased even though our operations in Iraq have decreased/eliminated.

  6. Default Re: President Trump on the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Well established data that takes a lot of opinion to come to a conclusion. Don't oversell it. Treasury doesn't distinguish what payments are '17 tax earning related or '18 estimated tax payments. Tax year 18 hasn't even concluded yet. The jury is still out for certain. Come back in April and let me know how it works out.

    Obama inherited increased spending that he gave to himself (he was a Senator in case you forgot). That time period was pretty bizarre time in history. Trying to blame one party for something that took many many decisions to get too is a fools errand. I think we have discussed this on this board how the president really isn't the final arbiter of the economy. That being said, the going story on Obama is the he cut spending (after it ballooned in the beginning). Coincidentally the party that took over was not his own. I contribute much of that friction for the reason in reductions. Remember the sequester?

    My point on defense was that I suspect defense spending probably hasn't decreased even though our operations in Iraq have decreased/eliminated.
    1. Did revenue decrease? Yes or no?

    2. Obama didn’t vote in favor of the Iraq war because he didn’t assume his post as U.S. Senator until after the war had already commenced. Even so, he went on record with his opposition to a war in Iraq during an anti-war rally in October 2002. So he’s not in any way responsible for the two unfunded trillion-dollar wars that he inherited, nor was he to blame for the increased costs of providing benefits to our returning war vets.

    3. I never blamed any party. Rather, I suggested that chuck5815’s mention of debt that accrued while Obama was in office was seriously lacking context and relevant facts. Quite simply, suggesting that Obama isn’t solely responsible for the debt that accumulated under his watch isn’t the same thing as blaming a party.

    4. Your point about defense spending last year has no bearing on the matter of whether or not Obama inherited increased government spending and decreased government revenue. The scope of my comment which provoked your line of questioning focused on what Obama inherited, so your inquiries appear to lead to non-sequitur pathways.
    ...this shortest straw has been pulled for you

  7. #132

    Default Re: President Trump on the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by AFCM View Post
    1. Did revenue decrease? Yes or no?
    It's debatable. Which is the point I'm trying to make. It hasn't dropped significantly unless you measure against GDP, which isn't a real drop. Which is pretty much the goal of a tax cut. Rates go down, collections either rise or stay flat. And GDP (the economy) expands.


    Quote Originally Posted by AFCM View Post
    2. Obama didn’t vote in favor of the Iraq war because he didn’t assume his post as U.S. Senator until after the war had already commenced. Even so, he went on record with his opposition to a war in Iraq during an anti-war rally in October 2002. So he’s not in any way responsible for the two unfunded trillion-dollar wars that he inherited, nor was he to blame for the increased costs of providing benefits to our returning war vets.
    [QUOTE=AFCM;1052460]He voted in favor of the spending that blew the budget in 2007 & 2008. That's what blew it open, not Iraq.

    Quote Originally Posted by AFCM View Post
    3. I never blamed any party.
    Not for lack of trying.



    Quote Originally Posted by AFCM View Post
    4. Your point about defense spending last year has no bearing on the matter of whether or not Obama inherited increased government spending and decreased government revenue. The scope of my comment which provoked your line of questioning focused on what Obama inherited, so your inquiries appear to lead to non-sequitur pathways.
    You implied that defense spending was down because we have more or less withdrawn from Iraq. I would beg to differ. Blame isn't part of the equation.

  8. Default Re: President Trump on the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    It's debatable. Which is the point I'm trying to make. It hasn't dropped significantly unless you measure against GDP, which isn't a real drop. Which is pretty much the goal of a tax cut. Rates go down, collections either rise or stay flat. And GDP (the economy) expands.
    Yet again, I implore you to read the article that you cited. Revenues have indeed declined. The nominal gain of 0.4% manifests only when we include revenues which derive from FY 2017 and months before the tax cuts went into effect. All of the data from FY 2018 - after the cuts went into effect - show a reduction in revenue, relative to previous years. Go back and read the italicized section that I quoted in my prior response on the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    He voted in favor of the spending that blew the budget in 2007 & 2008. That's what blew it open, not Iraq.
    He doesnít appear to have voted on the budget in 2007. And surely you can distinguish between voting to finance a war thatís already in progress from instigating an unfunded war. Once the genie was out of the bottle, there was really no choice but to fund the efforts until security could be reached or else risk greater instability in the region and the world. But the relevant point is that Obama inherited two unfunded trillion-dollar wars that he didnít start - both of which contributed to increased government spending. Why does this seem to be so difficult for some to accept?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Not for lack of trying.
    Please quote a specific passage wherein I blamed a political party for anything concerning the discussion at hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    You implied that defense spending was down because we have more or less withdrawn from Iraq. I would beg to differ. Blame isn't part of the equation.
    I did no such thing. Rather, I directly answered the questions that you posed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Did we stop paying for all that stuff last year?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    And has there been an actual reduction in how much we spend on defense, with or without the Iraq activity?
    Read my responses. They specifically addressed the matters about which you inquired.
    ...this shortest straw has been pulled for you

  9. #134

    Default Re: President Trump on the Economy

    I can't find a nice, easy to read chart but it appears Federal income tax revenues were at a record level in January, fell for a few months but have rebounded again to record levels the last couple of months. If you look up tax revenue collections in a search engine you can piece together the info. Time will tell but could it be tax cut boosts economy, which boosts employment, which boosts income, which boosts sales, which boosts tax receipts? We're still running a deficit, but it would appear Trumps tax cuts may be working.

  10. Default Re: President Trump on the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    I can't find a nice, easy to read chart but it appears Federal income tax revenues were at a record level in January, fell for a few months but have rebounded again to record levels the last couple of months. If you look up tax revenue collections in a search engine you can piece together the info. Time will tell but could it be tax cut boosts economy, which boosts employment, which boosts income, which boosts sales, which boosts tax receipts? We're still running a deficit, but it would appear Trumps tax cuts may be working.
    With all due respect, your response appears to consist of little more than cherry-picking and unsubstantiated conjecture. The tax cuts went into effect on 1 January 2018. Since then, revenues have been down in February, March, May, June, July, August, and September, relative to FY 2017.

    https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsre...mt/mts0918.pdf (Page 2, Table 1)
    ...this shortest straw has been pulled for you

  11. #136

    Default Re: President Trump on the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by AFCM View Post
    With all due respect, your response appears to consist of little more than cherry-picking and unsubstantiated conjecture. The tax cuts went into effect on 1 January 2018. Since then, revenues have been down in February, March, May, June, July, August, and September, relative to FY 2017.

    https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsre...mt/mts0918.pdf (Page 2, Table 1)
    It appears you need reminding when tax payments (revenue) is submitted/received for associated income. The first quarterly payments would not be due until April. Then June, September & January. Individual tax return payments will not be made till April of 2019 (Jan at earliest) and many more won't be in until September and October of 2019.

    IT IS TOO ****ING EARLY TO TELL IF THE TAX CUTS ARE WORKING!!!!!!!! Period end of story full ****ing stop. Stop trying to create something that isn't there.

    If tax collections are in fact down (which really is debatable), it's due largely to tax laws that were in place before this calendar year. Quite being so obtuse.

  12. #137

    Default Re: President Trump on the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    It appears you need reminding when tax payments (revenue) is submitted/received for associated income. The first quarterly payments would not be due until April. Then June, September & January. Individual tax return payments will not be made till April of 2019 (Jan at earliest) and many more won't be in until September and October of 2019.

    IT IS TOO ****ING EARLY TO TELL IF THE TAX CUTS ARE WORKING!!!!!!!! Period end of story full ****ing stop. Stop trying to create something that isn't there.

    If tax collections are in fact down (which really is debatable), it's due largely to tax laws that were in place before this calendar year. Quite being so obtuse.

    i think he was just responding to someone else's comment...at no point did he state anything about the tax cuts working or not working... just talking about tax revenue collection... the first post made a statement that it had rebounded and was up for the past few months and that was not an accurate statement.. he was just posting a link by the treasure department, which refuted the claim and said that the previous poster was cherry-picking numbers..

    as for tax collections being down (which might be debatable), the treasure department, which is under the executive branch is stating that the amounts being collected in each month of this year, are less then last year with the exceptions of January and April. that isn't a statement of the tax cuts, or any policy at all.. that is a department under the executive branch stating pure numbers of what they are collecting, and comparing that to last year of the same month.

  13. Default Re: President Trump on the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    It appears you need reminding when tax payments (revenue) is submitted/received for associated income. The first quarterly payments would not be due until April. Then June, September & January. Individual tax return payments will not be made till April of 2019 (Jan at earliest) and many more won't be in until September and October of 2019.

    IT IS TOO ****ING EARLY TO TELL IF THE TAX CUTS ARE WORKING!!!!!!!! Period end of story full ****ing stop. Stop trying to create something that isn't there.

    If tax collections are in fact down (which really is debatable), it's due largely to tax laws that were in place before this calendar year. Quite being so obtuse.
    The scope of my comment was limited to whether tax revenues have risen, stayed the same, or declined from the previous year after the tax cuts took effect. I mentioned absolutely nothing about whether they are working or have worked. Go back and read my response if you don’t believe me. Reading comprehension is a virtue.

    And for what it’s worth, tax revenues are down, relative to last year. Read Page 2, Table 1 of the link that I provided.
    ...this shortest straw has been pulled for you

  14. #139

    Default Re: President Trump on the Economy

    Some on this thread complained about stagnant wages, well then this is a good sign

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/31/wage...-a-decade.html

  15. Default Re: President Trump on the Economy

    U.S. soybean sales to China down 94% thanks to Trump trade war

    Maga

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/05/b...gtype=Homepage
    The truth is never embarrassed by honest inquiry.

  16. #141

    Default Re: President Trump on the Economy

    Unless China plans to drastcally reduce their consumption of soy, they will almost be forced to either overpay for another countries production or buy ours. They are the 800 pound gorilla here and unless they have large quantities in reserve, will be forced to shop elsewhere. They import a quantity equal to 70 - 80% of US production.

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