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Thread: Fake news

  1. Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by Stew View Post
    The attacks on Trump are no worse than the ones on Obama but partisans always think their guy is getting the short end of the stick. Regardless, Trump will win re-election just as Clinton, Bush JR. and Obama did. That’s pretty much a given.
    Lol you can’t possibly be serious. Did you watch the news or late night television or any type of media while Obama was president? All presidents take criticism as they should, but I’ve never seen anything remotely like the attacks against Trump from all directions over the last 3 years. That is not a partisan argument, it’s fact to anyone who has paid attention over the last 30 years a at least tried to view the situation somewhat objectively.

  2. #202

    Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by Stew View Post
    The attacks on Trump are no worse than the ones on Obama but partisans always think their guy is getting the short end of the stick. Regardless, Trump will win re-election just as Clinton, Bush JR. and Obama did. That’s pretty much a given.
    Give an example of the pure volume of coordination between all outlets of media against Obama anytime during his 8 yrs? I'll give you talk radio and Foxews Entertainment. That pales i. comparison to the constant barrage of anti-Trump rhetoric you hear today. What late nite TV show ever levjed anything against Obama except for an isolated one here ir there? but if you actually watch Foxnews news, there is plenty of negative reporting against Trump.

    Once again, I'm not a Trump partisan. I pray he isn't re-elected though I also pray a moderate Republican or fixed centrist is. If were lucky there will be a 3rd candidate in the middle.

  3. #203

    Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    No it doesn't. You justify your opinions simply based on association. Laws have been passed to stop the practce of punishing children for the actions of their parents. That's done in places like North Korea or Iran. You can critcize her for her own actions just like Don Sr. If he committed crimes then so be it. If Ivanka did something herself, so be it. Calling her a **** just for being in the White House and working for her Dad in no way justifies her treatment. You're just trying to justify abuse solely because she is a supporter of her own Father. She's done nothing to harm any of you.
    And at the U.S. border.

  4. #204

    Default Re: Fake news

    Apparently very true. Good point!

  5. #205

    Default Re: Fake news

    No modern president has ever been as incompetent, corrupt and downright evil as this president. Not even close.

    He worse than Nixon. And an idiot to boot.

  6. #206

    Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    No it doesn't. You justify your opinions simply based on association. Laws have been passed to stop the practce of punishing children for the actions of their parents. That's done in places like North Korea or Iran. You can critcize her for her own actions just like Don Sr. If he committed crimes then so be it. If Ivanka did something herself, so be it. Calling her a **** just for being in the White House and working for her Dad in no way justifies her treatment. You're just trying to justify abuse solely because she is a supporter of her own Father. She's done nothing to harm any of you.
    I didn't justify the abuse, I said that Bee was wrong and should have been suspended. It was too far.

    I'm comparing YOU to Bee, not justifying Bee.

  7. #207

    Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by Swake View Post
    No modern president has ever been as incompetent, corrupt and downright evil as this president. Not even close.

    He worse than Nixon. And an idiot to boot.
    I heard the same things about Obama and Bush JR from the opposing party loyalists. No doubt the same schtick played out during Bill Clinton’s term. It’s amazing that after a quarter century of the “worst” president ever the lights still turn on.
    Don't hassle me, I'm local.

  8. #208

    Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by Stew View Post
    I heard the same things about Obama and Bush JR from the opposing party loyalists. No doubt the same schtick played out during Bill Clinton’s term. It’s amazing that after a quarter century of the “worst” president ever the lights still turn on.
    what I always say when someone says the current president (since 1996) is the best or worst... name 20 presidents. lol because if you can't name less than half, probably don't know who was good or bad.

  9. Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by Stew View Post
    I heard the same things about Obama and Bush JR from the opposing party loyalists. No doubt the same schtick played out during Bill Clinton’s term. It’s amazing that after a quarter century of the “worst” president ever the lights still turn on.
    Hahaha true

  10. #210

    Default Re: Fake news

    https://www.polygraph.info/a/kremlin.../29301870.html

    ...Created after Facebook banned its parent entity, the “Federal News Agency” (Riafan), in April, USA Really said its goal is to “wake up Americans.”

    Riafan is the St. Petersburg branch of Rossiya Segodnya, the Russian state media conglomerate. It is also reportedly affiliated with St. Petersburg’s Internet Research Agency, better known as the “troll factory.”

  11. #211

    Default Re: Fake news

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/w...p-germany.html

    Donald J. Trump
    ✔ @realDonaldTrump
    The people of Germany are turning against their leadership as migration is rocking the already tenuous Berlin coalition. Crime in Germany is way up. Big mistake made all over Europe in allowing millions of people in who have so strongly and violently changed their culture!


    False.
    Crime statistics for 2017 showed the lowest level of crime in Germany in 25 years, according to figures released in May by the federal criminal office.

    Although there have been attacks by militants aligned with the Islamic State, as well as high-profile murders and assaults by migrant men, the statistics refute Mr. Trump’s suggestion.

    Not only was the overall crime rate down 5.1 percent over the previous year, violent crime (down 2.4 percent) and property theft (an 11.8 percent decrease) both dropped.

    So-called street crime was down by 8.6 percent. In cases where a suspect had been identified, crimes committed by non-Germans were down by 2.7 percent, while crimes committed by Germans were down by 2.2 percent.

  12. #212

    Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by Swake View Post
    But you ignore my point. Are maggots hypocritical?
    You make no sense. What's the meaning of "is?"

  13. #213

    Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by Swake View Post
    No modern president has ever been as incompetent, corrupt and downright evil as this president. Not even close.
    You're right but HRC didn't get the chance to prove you wrong. Her other actions and ability to incite others to help her indicate she would have given Mr. Trump a good run for his money.

  14. #214

    Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by PhiAlpha View Post
    All presidents take criticism as they should, but I’ve never seen anything remotely like the attacks against Trump from all directions over the last 3 years. That is not a partisan argument, it’s fact to anyone who has paid attention over the last 30 years a at least tried to view the situation somewhat objectively.
    On the other hand, and objectively, I think we have to acknowledge that Trump supplies a lot of the fodder himself and is very different in that respect. And, he's been doing this for 30+ years, too. That's who he is and anyone who didn't expect more of the same was not paying attention. Provocation has long been one of his MO's.

  15. #215

    Default Re: Fake news

    So back to topic, my local CBS affiliate ran a story about the tragedy going on with the children of illegal immigrants at the border. I have no reason to doubt the separation of parents and children is happening and is wrong because people on both sides of the aisle are criticizing it and demanding an end to it.

    My local CBS affiliate ran a story that came from the parent CBS network about the situation. The report was extended and had several things about it that troubled me greatly - not so much about what is happening but about the reporting.

    FIrst, there was a photo taken of a crying toddler child in a light blue shirt purported to be in a cage supposedly typical of what is in the south Texas facility. There were two other sets of legs behind him. I swore I had seen this picture a couple of days ago and looked it up and found it is a viral photo of a child taken in Dallas at a protest event against the border policy. It was not of what the CBS report lead you to believe which was the detention facility in South Texas. This picture has been used by many publications and an Hispanic activist Jose Antonio Vargas who, at first, claimed the child was locked inhumanely in a cage" then had to admit that he didn't really know the source of the photo and that it was not of South Texas.

    Second, was another short video of another toddler in a red shirt who was crying. He was standing alone but two sets of legs stood nearby. one in jeans and one in uniform. The narrative was that he had been separated from his mother and didn't know what to do. My feeling was that his cry was not one of being separated from his mother. Sure enough, a quick lookup on Google showed an interview on CNN with the reporter who took the video who described that the little boy and his mother (who was the person in the jeans) had just arrived at the detention facility. The mother was talking to a border patrol agent to find out where to go. The boy had not been separated from his mother as reported.

    Finally, there was an audio (only) with the distinct narrative of a separated child crying "Mommy," "Mommy!!!" The audio was heart wrenching but also questionable. I do not speak fluent Spanish so I may be wrong and correct me if I am, but I don't believe Hispanic children use the term "Mommy." That term has a different meaning entirely.

    The reporter admits "the sources for the audio and video clips are, as of yet, unverified." So, CBS, a major news network, is using admittedly unverified sources for what is clearly a report meant to stab a knife in the heart of anyone who sees it. 5 minutes if searching showed me the first two examples were not accurate and the third may also be.

    The point of this is a major network broadcast about supposed conditions at detention facilities at the Mexican border but has done nothing to verify sources. Hispanic activist Jose Antonio Vargas and several others who used the faked picture, justified it by saying they want to draw attention to the inhumane conditions and the horrible acts of separating parents from children. As I said earlier, I don't know what the conditions are or what is happening. I only know what I read and see on the news. I am very troubled, however, that the media and Hispanic Activists are taking a stance that the means justify the ends. Even if the examples are faked, the story is real and that is perfectly OK.

    In this day and age when Trump screams "fake news!" at anything that does not put him in good light, is it acceptable that a major news network (and maybe others, too) are releasing full blown stories with no verified sources? If so, doesn't it only validate what Trump screams and empowers him? In this case, they can't even hide behind the "we made a mistake" excuse. If I found the sources so fast, they didn't even try to find them. What do you think?

  16. Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by BDP View Post
    On the other hand, and objectively, I think we have to acknowledge that Trump supplies a lot of the fodder himself and is very different in that respect. And, he's been doing this for 30+ years, too. That's who he is and anyone who didn't expect more of the same was not paying attention. Provocation has long been one of his MO's.
    I definitley agree on that.

  17. #217

    Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by BDP View Post
    On the other hand, and objectively, I think we have to acknowledge that Trump supplies a lot of the fodder himself and is very different in that respect. And, he's been doing this for 30+ years, too. That's who he is and anyone who didn't expect more of the same was not paying attention. Provocation has long been one of his MO's.
    This doesn't excuse it, but I've seen some articles that talked about how this is how negotiation and deals are done in New York, especially in the real estate industry. If true, it might at least explain it.

  18. #218

    Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    This doesn't excuse it, but I've seen some articles that talked about how this is how negotiation and deals are done in New York, especially in the real estate industry. If true, it might at least explain it.
    Oh, I don't doubt that. It makes total sense. Real estate in New York, especially large developments like the ones with his name on them, are super political and often play out in the press and tabloids. From there it just becomes free publicity and a forum to pump up the development to investors and buyers. Trump seemed to use it to fulfill both financial goals and a platform to feed his narcissism. Of course, this was known and laughed at decades ago, but somehow we got to where we are now.

    I think I posted this before, but it's a pretty good look at the whole scene and a big "oh, yeah", for me at least:

    Confessions of a Trump Tabloid Scribe -
    How New York's gossip pages helped turn a lying real estate developer into a celebrity phenom.


    Basically, "fake news" has been his stock in trade his whole career.

  19. #219

    Default Re: Fake news

    Yet for whatever reason the whole we will go high if they go low is totally lost on the media types who just skunk down to his level.

  20. #220

    Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Yet for whatever reason the whole we will go high if they go low is totally lost on the media types who just skunk down to his level.
    It's not really going low when he's called out for his BS. He's the President of the United States and the whole concept of freedom of the press is very much about keeping government officials accountable to the people. So, as a purveyor of fake news, he's going to get a lot of heat from traditional media about that. That's their job. It was sort of different when he was just a B-list celebrity and reality TV personality, as that was pretty much all just tabloid bait. But being President of the United States does change the context in a very profound way. Throwing around birther and 9/11 conspiracies as a media whore just to get your face on cable news or the cover of the Enquirer is a lot different than consistently releasing false information on twitter as the President of the United States. Unfortunately, we don't really have the luxury of dismissing or ignoring the garbage when it comes directly from the President of our country. ANY president is going to catch heat for a misinformation campaign or even just factual errors. This one just happens to have always used it as a strategy and he's now just applying that practice to our highest office.

    Basically, when covering a skunk, sometimes you do have to skunk down to the skunk's level, and everyone ends up smelling like ****.

  21. #221

    Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by BDP View Post
    It's not really going low when he's called out for his BS. He's the President of the United States and the whole concept of freedom of the press is very much about keeping government officials accountable to the people. So, as a purveyor of fake news, he's going to get a lot of heat from traditional media about that. That's their job. It was sort of different when he was just a B-list celebrity and reality TV personality, as that was pretty much all just tabloid bait. But being President of the United States does change the context in a very profound way. Throwing around birther and 9/11 conspiracies as a media whore just to get your face on cable news or the cover of the Enquirer is a lot different than consistently releasing false information on twitter as the President of the United States. Unfortunately, we don't really have the luxury of dismissing or ignoring the garbage when it comes directly from the President of our country. ANY president is going to catch heat for a misinformation campaign or even just factual errors. This one just happens to have always used it as a strategy and he's now just applying that practice to our highest office.

    Basically, when covering a skunk, sometimes you do have to skunk down to the skunk's level, and everyone ends up smelling like ****.
    What I mean is they are essentially using his tactics of playing fast and loose with the facts to try to paint him as someone who plays fast and loose with the facts. Surely you see a problem with this?

  22. #222

    Default Re: Fake news

    Trump plays loose with the facts. Nobody is trying to wrongly paint him that way.

  23. #223

    Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Yet for whatever reason the whole we will go high if they go low is totally lost on the media types who just skunk down to his level.
    Refering to Sean Hannity or Corey Lewandowski?

  24. #224

    Default Re: Fake news

    I don't have the screenshot, but yesterday when this was first posted it was decidedly more misleading.

    Governor orders probe of abuse claims by immigrant children @ AP

    Initially the following paragraphs all appeared in the article:

    Many of the children were sent there after U.S. immigration authorities accused them of belonging to violent gangs, including MS-13. President Donald Trump has repeatedly cited gang activity as justification for his crackdown on illegal immigration.
    A nice take on the Trump calls all migrants MS-13 members.

    Most children held in the Shenandoah facility who were the focus of the abuse lawsuit were caught crossing the border illegally alone. They were not the children who have been separated from their families under the Trump administration’s recent policy and are now in the government’s care. But the facility operates under the same program run by the U.S. Office of Refugee Resettlement. It was not immediately clear whether any separated children have been sent to Shenandoah Valley since the Trump administration in April announced its “zero tolerance” policy toward immigrant families, after the lawsuit was filed.
    Sigh. I appreciate that AP is now concerned with something that happened years ago, but color me unimpressed with their investigative journalism department.

    Still stuff away down in paragraph 25-30:

    The complaint filed by the nonprofit Washington Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights and Urban Affairs recounts the story of an unnamed 17-year-old Mexican citizen apprehended at the southern border. The teen fled an abusive father and violence fueled by drug cartels to seek asylum in the United States in 2015.
    See quote below as to why this one is a dozy.

    And originally in paragraph 19 or 20, there was this:

    In court filings, lawyers for the detention facility have denied all the allegations of physical abuse. The incidents described in the lawsuit occurred from 2015 to 2018, during both the Obama and Trump administrations.
    It has now been moved up to paragraph 7 before any mention of Trump. Which even that is pretty misleading as all the cases stem from prior to Trump's election.

    Look, AP did not lie. But this is the kind of propaganda tactics that people use when they want to sway opinion. In other words, fake news.

  25. Default Re: Fake news

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    ...
    Look, AP did not lie. But this is the kind of propaganda tactics that people use when they want to sway opinion. In other words, fake news.
    No, that is not what fake news is. What you're describing is propaganda, bias, slant, etc. Fake news, by definition, is lies. From the Cambridge Dictionary (and many many many many others, but I don't have time to list all the other correct definitions of fake news):

    "false stories that appear to be news, spread on the internet or using other media, usually created to influence political views or as a joke"

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