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  1. #1

    Default The national political landscape

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...politics-head/
    A pretty interesting read on the increased partisanship in the U.S.

    For an example in action just read the flame war comments section.

  2. #2

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    American politics have become another sort of sports rivalry. There's little more substance to most folks opinions than
    "we're number 1 and everybody else sucks."

    I would only add that sports fans, as emotionally tied to their billionaire's team as they tend to be, are generally more knowledgeable about the sport than the politics. Politics seems to go straight to the id.

  3. #3

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    When I posted the thread on russia, i honestly thought there could be some substantive discussion. Its russia, the evil empire, after all. Nope, just more, "We're good, you're evil" binary BS.

    It no longer seems to matter what the issue is, everything is reactionary.


  4. #4

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    ^^ There's truly only a handful of people on here who can look at things from multiple angles. The vast majority are completely set in their views and it's quite obvious.

    I just look for consistency in discussions and enjoy calling out hypocrisy. Too often it's 8 posters against 3 in many discussions and it's usually right down the same boring partisan lines. But, we as a society have been shaped like this. Don't believe me?

    Red vs Blue
    Coke vs Pepsi
    This team vs that one
    Marvel vs DC
    Microsoft vs Apple
    And many others...

    Everything has been shaped into us vs them in this country and it doesn't make for healthy choices. Everything is a dated dichotomy and it's very sad.

  5. #5

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016...der-obama.html

    “We’re not even a national party at this point,” Rep. Tim Ryan, D-Ohio, said last month as he made a failed run at the House minority leader position. “We have some support on the coasts, but we’ve lost the support of middle America, and we’ve got to make some changes. So I’m pulling the fire alarm here, because the house is on fire.”

  6. #6

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Even Nate Silver is letting party priorities cloud his judgement at this point.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Even Nate Silver is letting party priorities cloud his judgement at this point.
    In what way out of curiosity? I don't always agree with his calls, and yeah, his editorials have a left point of view but his analysis, for right or wrong, seems fairly non partisan imo.

  8. #8

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond_Outsider View Post
    When I posted the thread on russia, i honestly thought there could be some substantive discussion. Its russia, the evil empire, after all. Nope, just more, "We're good, you're evil" binary BS.

    It no longer seems to matter what the issue is, everything is reactionary.

    Only because you were reductive and choose to frame it as such. There were plenty of "we should take it seriously IF something happened" posts and discussions on what effect, if any Russia had on the election. You choosing to dismissed or ignore those posts doesn't eliminate their existence.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond_Outsider View Post
    When I posted the thread on russia, i honestly thought there could be some substantive discussion. Its russia, the evil empire, after all. Nope, just more, "We're good, you're evil" binary BS.

    It no longer seems to matter what the issue is, everything is reactionary.

    Only because you were reductive and choose to frame it as such. There were plenty of "we should take it seriously IF something happened" posts and discussions on what effect, if any Russia had on the election. Midtowner had some great thoughts on the effect if corporations on elections. There were discussions by several folks on the politics of interviening in other countries' elections. Many folks on the right including myself called this potentially troubling. However, you started the thread with a subjective politically slanted statement. And you choosing to dismisse or ignore those posts doesn't eliminate their existence.

    In fact, looking over the thread, the most binary post seems to be the final one...

    It seems as though people are working so hard to accommodate the chaos basket of the president elect, they can't tell what they denying or defending any longer. That's sort of funny and sad at the same time.
    I wonder who said that?

  10. #10

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Proving, yet again, the sports analogy and popeye cartoon. But, evidently, only because I framed it that way.

  11. #11

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    In what way out of curiosity? I don't always agree with his calls, and yeah, his editorials have a left point of view but his analysis, for right or wrong, seems fairly non partisan imo.
    Check his twitter. He is all out attacking Trump/Russia. The "Nuclear Survival Map".



    http://www.mediaite.com/online/nate-...comeys-letter/

    In fairness, he may just be trying to save face for being so wrong on his polls.

  12. #12

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post

    In fairness, he may just be trying to save face for being so wrong on his polls.
    He doesnt have his own polls, he aggregates other polls. Also, the polls werent far off. The 3 or 4 states that decided the election, the polls were mostly within the margin of error.

  13. #13

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    He doesnt have his own polls, he aggregates other polls. Also, the polls werent far off. The 3 or 4 states that decided the election, the polls were mostly within the margin of error.
    I understand how statistics work, however the overriding perception by those that don't is that he blew. Not only did he not get all the states right, he picked the wrong winner.

    And he doesn't JUST use aggregates of polls, he makes his own (team's) adjustments. Otherwise, he would just be RealClearPolitics, which he is not.

  14. Default Re: The national political landscape

    Interesting read, but I don't think it'll ever happen in the USA, at least not in my lifetime.

    Sick Of American Democracy? The U.S. Could Learn A Lot From These Countries

    Fix #1: Create an executive council, like Switzerland and China have.
    Fix #2: Rebuild a strong federal service, like the U.K. and Singapore have.
    Fix #3: Provide the infrastructure states need to thrive, like Germany does.

  15. #15

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    Interesting read, but I don't think it'll ever happen in the USA, at least not in my lifetime.

    Sick Of American Democracy? The U.S. Could Learn A Lot From These Countries

    Fix #1: Create an executive council, like Switzerland and China have.
    Fix #2: Rebuild a strong federal service, like the U.K. and Singapore have.
    Fix #3: Provide the infrastructure states need to thrive, like Germany does.
    Not addressing 1 and 2 (don't really like either) but I have heard 3 before and I dislike the comparison. Germany has around 9000 miles of highway system. The US has over 160k in the NHS. Even if you count only the interstate system you're talking 47k miles.

    Germany spent $28 Billion in US dollars last year on infrastructure. Even if it was directly linear (which it wouldn't be because of our size), just maintaining the number of miles we have (even if they were up to Germany's level) would be 100B to 1T. But upgrading to the quality would be an investment that is so far beyond us They are such different animals.

  16. Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Not addressing 1 and 2 (don't really like either) but I have heard 3 before and I dislike the comparison. Germany has around 9000 miles of highway system. The US has over 160k in the NHS. Even if you count only the interstate system you're talking 47k miles.

    Germany spent $28 Billion in US dollars last year on infrastructure. Even if it was directly linear (which it wouldn't be because of our size), just maintaining the number of miles we have (even if they were up to Germany's level) would be 100B to 1T. But upgrading to the quality would be an investment that is so far beyond us They are such different animals.
    In the article, he comes right out and says that all the countries he talks about (except China) are way smaller than the USA, and there would be specific challenges for the USA to implement those changes because of the way the USA is structured. I don't believe he *ever* said that these changes could be directly linearly imported from any of the countries he talks about, changes would have to be made. And he doesn't even get specific enough to mention the highway systems - this is the entire quote from Fix #3 and doesn't mention highways or anything specific at all (I suspect details are in the book):

    "This is where Angela Merkel’s Germany comes in. What distinguishes Germany as a large and well-governed country is that the government provides the national infrastructural foundations for each province’s cities and industries to be connected to global markets. Most of the world’s best cars come from Germany — but from three different provinces constantly seeking to outdo each other in performance. Justice Louis Brandeis famously called states the “laboratories of democracy,” but they are also very much the incubators of technocracy. Governors, such as Jerry Brown, and mayors, such as Michael Bloomberg, constantly experiment with long-term and inclusive strategies to boost innovation and improve governance."

  17. #17

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    The German infrastructure argument is a lot like the Norway/Netherlands/etc. Healthcare argument. Those countries arguably have great systems which work well for them, but whether those same systems would work successfully at the scale needed in the USA is a completely different question.

  18. #18

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Not addressing 1 and 2 (don't really like either) but I have heard 3 before and I dislike the comparison. Germany has around 9000 miles of highway system. The US has over 160k in the NHS. Even if you count only the interstate system you're talking 47k miles.

    Germany spent $28 Billion in US dollars last year on infrastructure. Even if it was directly linear (which it wouldn't be because of our size), just maintaining the number of miles we have (even if they were up to Germany's level) would be 100B to 1T. But upgrading to the quality would be an investment that is so far beyond us They are such different animals.
    I'll totally admit I didn't read the article because I was at work, and just replied based on the points, so my bad.

  19. Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    I'll totally admit I didn't read the article because I was at work, and just replied based on the points, so my bad.
    Wasn't going to call you on it, but thanks for being honest.

  20. Default Re: The national political landscape

    Preemption is a really nasty thing, everybody (conservatives and liberals, Rs and Ds, everybody) should be against it, it pretty much only benefits corporations. Sadly, we're probably just gonna have to roll over and get screwed, not much can be done, but we can try.

    The other right-wing tidal wave sweeping America: Federal and state preemption of local progressive laws

  21. #21

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    I meant to post this the other day, I shared it on Facebook and I know Clay Travis has his own biases and could really be lumped in with the same people (Shaun King, Rush, etc) he talks about, the interesting part of this piece is how he breaks down the history of media and it's channels over the last century, and how it's defined us.

    http://www.outkickthecoverage.com/wh...e-crazy-022617


  22. #23

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    The Tag Line:

    "Leading Republicans have fled from Trump's racism. But their party has been a white-identity club for 50 years"

    right...



  23. #24

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    There's no question that the Southern strategy exists and was employed by many on the right to get traditional Democratic voters (ironic it took racism to recruit Democrats btw). But I think it's funny to label one party as a "white identity club". Politics is a white identity club. Regardless of party, it's dominated by wealthy white men. What's more ironic is that if you're a minority member of the GOP the left calls you a race traitor or an Uncle Tom. How progressive.

  24. #25

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    And if you're white and a member of the democratic party the right calls you ignorant or a mental case. How conservative, Come on man you're better than that!
    Don't hassle me, I'm local.

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