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  1. #2251

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Quicker View Post
    Haha... You do realize he never said that, right? That was the point of the post.

    Potential crimes? Oh yeah, Mueller, Nadler and Shiff are all over that and you’ve got CNN and MSNBC telling you just how guilty he is every day for years.

    Horowitz, Barr and Dunham are about to prove to you where the real corruption has been all along...
    It sounds like you are getting your news from QAnon message boards. Everyone knows the best way to combat the evil MSM fake news is to believe everything you read from anonymous posters on 4chan...

  2. #2252

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Quicker View Post
    You should get a job with CNN or MSNBC...a perfect example of fake news. He.never said that but you don’t care about that, you just hate him so it’s okay to embellish and make stuff up. You and Rachel Maddow would make quite a pair...
    The concept of legal representation is that legal counsel speaks for the client. Of course he didn't say it as he was not on the stand or representing himself.

  3. #2253

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    If there is a huge cover up “protecting” Trudeau then it is important. Now the question is who is pulling the media strings? The deep state? Illuminati? New world order?

    We must get to the bottom of this.
    Other than it just being another example of less critical reporting on the issue since Trudeau is an attractive left wing darling and outspoken Trump critic, l wouldn't care much since it's a Canadian issue. But the fact he's wallowed into US politics once or twice makes him open to ctiticism. But mostly, the fact he apparently did it several times (including times not yet reported) is bothering.

    Someone earlier said he wasn't bothered by something from 20 years ago and for which Trudeau appologized, which l agree with. But how many times was this done and under what circumstances? If for organized performances then it's not so much an issue. If for parties or Halloween or voluntary things, thats more poor judgement. 20 years ago, blackface wasn't really acceptible. He's too young for 40 years ago when it wasn't thought of as wrong.

  4. #2254

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    It sounds like you are getting your news from QAnon message boards. Everyone knows the best way to combat the evil MSM fake news is to believe everything you read from anonymous posters on 4chan...
    It sounds like you're trying to disparage someone for something you know nothing about unless you're in his computer. Do you work for the DOJ? Do you already know what has been discovered but not yet reported?

    After this past week, you can no more believe what's in the NYT as you can an anonymous poster on 4chan, a short ADD-worthy hit on Huffpo or a FBI leak from VOX.

  5. #2255

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    The concept of legal representation is that legal counsel speaks for the client. Of course he didn't say it as he was not on the stand or representing himself.
    BS... The attorney’s didn’t say that either and no, you can’t attribute a legal opinion given by an attorney as a quote from the President. Nice try though.

  6. #2256

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    It sounds like you are getting your news from QAnon message boards. Everyone knows the best way to combat the evil MSM fake news is to believe everything you read from anonymous posters on 4chan...
    QAnon? 4chan? I’ve never seen either but you don’t have to be completely ignorant on the subject. A simple google search will deliver plenty of information to bring you up to speed. Here’s a few excerpts from a very informative piece. You should take the time to educate yourself and read the whole thing...

    ‘’Now that James Comey’s corruption of the FBI has been exposed, the country awaits the next report from Inspector General Michael Horowitz. This one will deal with government misrepresentations to the special court that grants secret surveillance warrants on foreign agents in the United States’’

    ‘’Apparently, the court turned down the initial application — a very rare event — so the FBI and DoJ tried again. This time they bulked up the application with details from Christopher Steele’s dirty dossier. The dossier was paid for by Hillary Clinton’s campaign and the Democratic National Committee, using two cut-outs (the DNC’s law firm, Perkins Coie, and the opposition research firm it hired, Glenn Simpson’s FusionGPS). The FBI’s second-in-command, Andrew McCabe, told Congress that the warrant would not have been granted without the dossier.’’

    ‘’This essential background was hidden from the FISA Court when it granted four successive warrants to spy on a U.S. citizen because he was purportedly a foreign agent. That citizen, Page, had actually been cooperating with American law enforcement and intelligence for years. He came to them on his own and spoke freely after his occasional business trips to Russia.‘’

    ‘’These actions look like political surveillance masquerading as national security, executed by political appointees across the executive branch. So ... who authorized it? Who coordinated it? How high up did it go? We need answers, under oath.

    We don’t know what role President Obama’s top aides played in these machinations. Nor do we know the roles played by the president himself and his vice president, Joe Biden. All we know, so far, is that Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, who were central to the FBI investigation, texted about it on Aug. 5, 2016. The key text says, “The White House is running this.” Three years later, we still don’t know what that means’’

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...se_141157.html

  7. #2257

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Quicker View Post
    BS... The attorney’s didn’t say that either and no, you can’t attribute a legal opinion given by an attorney as a quote from the President. Nice try though.
    Point me to the statement that is in quotes.

  8. #2258

    SoSA Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    They might share very limited and relevant parts, but much of it will be under grand jury seal from what I understand. IF there is something to eventually charge Trump with, it might come out then (so post presidency)
    The only thing that prevents POTUS from being indicted is an opinion of the DoJ, not a statute or a cite in rhe Constitution. That opinion holds in Federal courts for the time being .This action is in NY state court.

  9. #2259

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    If there is a huge cover up “protecting” Trudeau then it is important. Now the question is who is pulling the media strings? The deep state? Illuminati? New world order?

    We must get to the bottom of this.
    So this is why you are so adamantly opposed to comments I make. I'm not presuming a conspiracy. I'm assuming human nature. Trudeau is on "their team", therefore he is protected. It's not supernatural, it's human nature.

  10. #2260

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by runOKC View Post
    ^ Will be interesting to also see if this claim applies to his latest act of treason.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...476_story.html
    You do know the last President had a written agreement with a "bad actor". He even bragged about it. It's not treason for pete sake. Quite with the hyperbolic language.

  11. #2261

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by runOKC View Post
    So, having an opinion that Presidents should be held to a certain standard, including being investigated for potential crimes, is nothing more than “embellishing”. Got it. If you scream about CNN and MSNBC as being the problem while our con artist of a president continues to treat the constitution like a piece of toilet paper, I can’t help you.
    All these claims that he is setting the constitution on fire, which is impeachable, yet here we stand. With no member of congress able to find a single thing to impeach him on other than the perception that he interfered with an investigation that ultimately cleared him of wrong doing.

  12. #2262

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Not sure if you guys follow Gabrial Malor, he's an okie that comments on legal matters. And he is no Trump fan. His comment today per Twitter:

    We are in for a world of hurt if the new normal is that individuals who work in the intelligence community start leaking confidential presidential foreign policy communications.
    So how this will play out is...Trump will be more and more secretive about what he does (justified) and his opponents will take that as evidence that he is doing something nefarious.

  13. #2263

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    And lastly, why doesn't this guy just go to Congress. This does happen.

  14. #2264

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Also worth noting that Biden openly withheld funds from Ukraine in order to get a Ukrainian prosecutor fired.

    I believe I heard he is running for President. That couldn't be though because we don't want traitors as president.

  15. #2265

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    So this is why you are so adamantly opposed to comments I make. I'm not presuming a conspiracy. I'm assuming human nature. Trudeau is on "their team", therefore he is protected. It's not supernatural, it's human nature.
    This is exactly what I’m saying. There is no teams this is politics not college football. If you have the mindset of my team vs their team of course you’re going to yell “fake news” at every article that makes your team look bad and believe every article that makes the other team look bad. This is not how politics are supposed to work. A political affiliation is not an identity. This mindset is how you get to the point of believing the other guys are not real Americans.

    There is no conspiracy. Republicans and Democrats play for the same team. They both play for the American “team” Stop with the tribalism.

  16. #2266

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    This is exactly what I’m saying. There is no teams this is politics not college football. If you have the mindset of my team vs their team of course you’re going to yell “fake news” at every article that makes your team look bad and believe every article that makes the other team look bad. This is not how politics are supposed to work. A political affiliation is not an identity. This mindset is how you get to the point of believing the other guys are not real Americans.

    There is no conspiracy. Republicans and Democrats play for the same team. They both play for the American “team” Stop with the tribalism.
    Agreed, there shouldn't be teams. That's great and all as a slogan, but out here in the real world, there most definitely are teams.

  17. #2267

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    The only thing that prevents POTUS from being indicted is an opinion of the DoJ, not a statute or a cite in rhe Constitution. That opinion holds in Federal courts for the time being .This action is in NY state court.
    Eh, regardless of who is in the office, I think both history, logic, and DOJ opinions are right, in that a sitting president cannot be indicted while in office. I'd prefer it that way. Impeach, and then indict. It's the same reason states can't just start making up new requirements to be on the ballot for President. Everything thinks these games are just fine, because it's Trump, so burn this mother down evidently, but if folks can't see the ramifications? Well, Republicans are just as good if not better at the nasty, and once that line is cross, it will be used extensively, and there are a lot of GOP controlled states, for when the next Dem is in office... I didn't even like it when Clinton was able to be tied up in civil court while President.

  18. #2268

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    All these claims that he is setting the constitution on fire, which is impeachable, yet here we stand. With no member of congress able to find a single thing to impeach him on other than the perception that he interfered with an investigation that ultimately cleared him of wrong doing.
    Ok and by this logic all of the “constitutional conservatives” were completely wrong when they constantly yelled from the rooftops that Obama was destroying the constitution every day he was in office. I don’t recall him ever being impeached. And yet I somehow am sure you are still sitting there today believing he walked all over the constitution. And if you believe that then your argument for Trump is invalid.

  19. #2269

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    Ok and by this logic all of the “constitutional conservatives” were completely wrong when they constantly yelled from the rooftops that Obama was destroying the constitution every day he was in office. I don’t recall him ever being impeached. And yet I somehow I’m sure you are still setting there today believing he walked all over the constitution. And if you believe that then your argument for Trump is invalid.
    This is a phenomenal example of whataboutism. Thank you.

    I believe he walked all over congress. It was their job to stop him, and they addicted their responsibility.

  20. #2270

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Eh, regardless of who is in the office, I think both history, logic, and DOJ opinions are right, in that a sitting president cannot be indicted while in office. I'd prefer it that way. Impeach, and then indict. It's the same reason states can't just start making up new requirements to be on the ballot for President. Everything thinks these games are just fine, because it's Trump, so burn this mother down evidently, but if folks can't see the ramifications? Well, Republicans are just as good if not better at the nasty, and once that line is cross, it will be used extensively, and there are a lot of GOP controlled states, for when the next Dem is in office... I didn't even like it when Clinton was able to be tied up in civil court while President.
    There is a good reason it works this way. The President and Congress make the laws. SO at some point they would be discussing things that were illegal.

  21. #2271

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Eh, regardless of who is in the office, I think both history, logic, and DOJ opinions are right, in that a sitting president cannot be indicted while in office. I'd prefer it that way. Impeach, and then indict. It's the same reason states can't just start making up new requirements to be on the ballot for President. Everything thinks these games are just fine, because it's Trump, so burn this mother down evidently, but if folks can't see the ramifications? Well, Republicans are just as good if not better at the nasty, and once that line is cross, it will be used extensively, and there are a lot of GOP controlled states, for when the next Dem is in office... I didn't even like it when Clinton was able to be tied up in civil court while President.
    I understand and respect your opinion. What is your opinion as to whether a state can conduct an investigation of POTUS?

  22. #2272

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    I understand and respect your opinion. What is your opinion as to whether a state can conduct an investigation of POTUS?
    Good question, and I can see arguments for both views. I'm interested in seeing what the judge says in the hearing next week. Personally, I feel like an investigation can happen (you don't want information to get cold), but you're limited on filing charges. The caveat is that the accused is entitled to a timely defense, and so the details of the investigation and the evidence should be kept confidential. If a state is unable to operate without leaks and playing politics then no, I don't feel like they should be able to investigate. They basically lose that right, since the balance should always fall towards the accused in any situation.

    This is probably why judges are involved. They can help determine if the motives are more political than justice, if the office has the ability to control leaks based on their history, etc.

    One other note - A lot of people seem to get freaked out by various legal arguments coming from his counsel, where they sort of feel like every legal argument made by the lawyers is a word from Trumps mouth. I've been involved in legal battles before, and I saw how adversarial the system is (and it's designed to be from what I understand). I saw my lawyers throw everything including the kitchen sink at the other side, and some of the arguments they made to me seemed, eh, not untrue but a stretch maybe? It would seem to me to be smart legal strategy, that innocent or guilty, you fight every step of the way. You try to block the evidence, you block witnesses, you do every legal maneuver you can to shut down or obstruct the other side. It would almost be malpractice for lawyers not to do everything legal (even if immoral) to win for their client. It's like the old maxim, where a cop tries to tell you that only guilty people get lawyers. No, smart people get lawyers. There's nothing noble about contributing in your own destruction. Just foolish.

    note - I'm sure one of our resident lawyers can offer a more informed or detailed opinion. Mine is merely observational and base on anecdotal experience.

  23. #2273

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    This is a phenomenal example of whataboutism. Thank you.

    I believe he walked all over congress. It was their job to stop him, and they addicted their responsibility.
    Im directly addressing your defense. I’m asking if you believe in the validity of your own argument.

    If lack of impeachment is all you need to prove innocence, then it proves innocence in all cases.

    I’m not justifying anyone’s actions by comparing others actions. I’m asking if your argument is consistent.

  24. #2274

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Agreed, there shouldn't be teams. That's great and all as a slogan, but out here in the real world, there most definitely are teams.
    And are you saying Fox News doesn’t do this?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/nowthisne...b0ffefe3b8ce3e

  25. #2275

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    By the way, the Trudeau deal has been all over the news, on all networks.

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