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  1. #201

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Regarding the strange announcements surrounding former ambassador McFaul:

    https://twitter.com/KrisParonto/stat...s-diplomats%2F

    I'm sure his Twitter thoughts were restrained (or at least minimized by the character limit )

  2. Default Re: The national political landscape

    https://www.alternet.org/mark-zucker...facebook-works

    "...liberals and conservatives aren't fighting the culture wars with the same weapons. The former is on the ideological battlefield with a clipboard, the latter with a bazooka."

  3. #203

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    https://www.alternet.org/mark-zucker...facebook-works

    "...liberals and conservatives aren't fighting the culture wars with the same weapons. The former is on the ideological battlefield with a clipboard, the latter with a bazooka."
    Facebook is in a predicament that it really can't make itself out to be a publisher of content. As a platform, they can't really editorialize the content. While many here and probably at Facebook think it is wrong to give a platform to those that espose insane positions, it is also a legal threshold Facebook doesn't want to cross, or is ill prepared at present to cross. Not sure which personally.

  4. Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Facebook is in a predicament that it really can't make itself out to be a publisher of content. As a platform, they can't really editorialize the content. While many here and probably at Facebook think it is wrong to give a platform to those that espose insane positions, it is also a legal threshold Facebook doesn't want to cross, or is ill prepared at present to cross. Not sure which personally.
    Sorry, I should've been more clear that I posted this because of the discussion about the difference between liberals and conservatives, not the content about Facebook, just FYI.

  5. #205

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    Sorry, I should've been more clear that I posted this because of the discussion about the difference between liberals and conservatives, not the content about Facebook, just FYI.
    My bad, however I will mention that on the veracity of culture war battles...

    The left (liberals for this arguments sake) basically have the whole of main stream press outlets and pretty much all of Hollywood and the University systems in the country. Because the conservatives may be hitting it hard on line is hardly outmatching how probably more than 3/4 of the information in this country is consumed.

    In reality, maybe conservatives need a bazooka style tactic to overcome the 1 bazillion to one odds they face on the culture war.

  6. #206

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...n-flag-outsid/

    interesting story, not sure if anyone has read anything about it. I see were the protesters ("oath keepers") didnt show up, but the counter protesters pulled a flag off a truck and burned it.
    Has anyone seen a report that the 2 guys in the truck were "oath keepers"? or were they just driving by? this article doesn't mention it. Neither does the Yahoo blurb that i saw on the incident

  7. #207

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    So Andrew Cuomo is suggesting the the NY Daily News be subsidized because scrutiny by a free press is important in a free country.

    Just gonna let that one sit out there all by itself.


  8. Default Re: The national political landscape

    https://www.alternet.org/poverty-cri...lummeted-under

    "The consumer group's new analysis shows that EPA penalties against corporate criminals has dropped a staggering 94 percent since Trump took office last year.

    The decline in penalties leveled by other White House agencies has been similarly striking.

    Trump's Department of Justice (DOJ), for instance, imposed $4.9 billion in penalties against major corporations for violating the law. In contrast, during the last year of the Obama administration—which could hardly be described as tough on corporate crime—the DOJ imposed $51.5 billion in fines against businesses."

  9. #210

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    https://www.alternet.org/poverty-cri...lummeted-under

    "The consumer group's new analysis shows that EPA penalties against corporate criminals has dropped a staggering 94 percent since Trump took office last year.

    The decline in penalties leveled by other White House agencies has been similarly striking.

    Trump's Department of Justice (DOJ), for instance, imposed $4.9 billion in penalties against major corporations for violating the law. In contrast, during the last year of the Obama administration—which could hardly be described as tough on corporate crime—the DOJ imposed $51.5 billion in fines against businesses."
    Of which Volkswagen represents an enormous piece of that pie. I think one and a half years in is a bit of a small sample size, and unless you can show policy that is actually diverting resources from these causes, I find it near impossible to draw conclusions based off of historical corporate crimes. But that won't let a bunch of people hell bent on derailing a presidency get in the way. We've got conclusions and we need facts to back them up.

  10. #211

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Republicans Are Now Conceding Their Core Values


    ... what Republicans in Congress have found is that rubber-stampism can be addictive and all-consuming; every time they allow a line to be crossed, it is harder to hold the next one, even if that next one is more fundamental. Republicans have made it clear that they have no intention of providing a meaningful check on Trump, and the next Congress could be even worse: from Georgia to Wisconsin, GOP candidates are vying with one another in their pledges of fealty to Trump rather than to any set of ideas.
    Is Trump redefining the Republican party or is he just an anomaly and the party intends to "reset" itself after the Trump era?

  11. #212

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    The publisher of the New York Times has urged President Donald Trump not to continue labelling reporters "enemies of the people", saying it could "lead to violence" against the media.

    AG Sulzberger was reporting a meeting with Mr Trump at the White House.

    The meeting was intended to be off-the-record but Mr Sulzberger said Mr Trump broke this with a tweet on Sunday.

    In his tweet, the president said he had had a "very good and very interesting" meeting with Mr Sulzberger.

    "Spent much time talking about the vast amounts of Fake News being put out by the media & how that Fake News has morphed into phrase, 'Enemy of the People.' Sad!" the tweet read.

    The New York Times released its statement after Mr Trump tweeted, saying it had decided to "respond to the president's characterisation of their conversation".

    Mr Sulzberger said he had accepted the meeting with Mr Trump to raise concerns about the president's "deeply troubling anti-press rhetoric".

    He said he told Mr Trump that the phrase "fake news" was "untrue and harmful" but said he was "far more concerned about his labelling journalists 'the enemy of the people'".

    "I warned that this inflammatory language is contributing to a rise in threats against journalists and will lead to violence," he said.

    Sulzberger said he had told the president that this was particularly true in other countries, where he said Mr Trump's rhetoric was being used by some regimes to crack down on journalists.

    "I warned that it was putting lives at risk, that it was undermining the democratic ideals of our nation, and that it was eroding one of our country's greatest exports: a commitment to free speech and a free press," he said.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44999364

  12. #213

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Is this rhetoric much different than Maxine Water's? I agree its inflammatory, but people should be calling out both, right?

  13. #214

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    The media ain't exactly those of us in the Midwest's best friend. They routinely castigate Trump voters as know nothing hill billies with an arsenal of weapons in their basements. They have pretty much made it their point to undermine anything the president does. I seem to recall them howling at the moon when Limbaugh said something as innocuous as "I hope he fails". Hindsight being 20/20 that comment (one of his more notorious) seems pretty tame in comparison to what I read today. I understand that for some reason or another Trump's behavior is somehow license to do all this, but I just don't agree. They have revealed themselves as opinionators and news makers. Not news reporters. They have no one to blame but themselves at this point in time. The administration has done nothing to hinder their progress. I also would add that the previous administration was vastly harsher on the press, just not to their face.

  14. #215

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    I'm curious. I dont disagree with your characterization of the presses behavior. But the only time I remember Obama calling out press was his You dont come into my house and disrespect me comment. Was there more?

  15. #216

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    I'm curious. I dont disagree with your characterization of the presses behavior. But the only time I remember Obama calling out press was his You dont come into my house and disrespect me comment. Was there more?
    His justice department "investigated" some reporters. Got phone records from some at AP and Fox, in addition to naming James Rosen @ Fox a "criminal co-conspirator" in order to access his emails and phone records. That's a bit more intrusive that saying some crap on Twitter in my book. Not to mention the Sharyl Attkisson fiasco.

  16. #217

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Is this rhetoric much different than Maxine Water's? I agree its inflammatory, but people should be calling out both, right?
    Exactly the counterpoint. Where's the outrage from the right?

  17. #218

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    Exactly the counterpoint. Where's the outrage from the right?
    There is a difference. One is calling on action to literally get in the faces of politicians you don't agree with. The other is casting doubt on the validity of news reporting. Or has he suggested hunting reporters down at the restaurants they eat at and harassing them?

  18. #219

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    Exactly the counterpoint. Where's the outrage from the right?
    Two points. There has been plenty. Much of right wing media was upset and spent tons of time, last week, for example, over the exclusion of the CNN reporter from a single event. And this was a pretty minor deal IMO.

    He's also been called out plenty by leaders in the GOP for his comments on twitter and other statements. So just because you don't notice it or think it's not enough, doesn't mean it's not there.

    Second point. You're getting close to "where are the good muslims condemning this behavior" territory. No one is obligated to the the ultimate representative of their group. We've been told this again and again. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Unless you're playing politics, right?

  19. #220

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Also, we've continued to see confrontations and escalations after Maxine Waters' comment, some approaching dangerous. And I have a feeling it's just a matter of time before some serious violence breaks out. We haven't seen this towards the press yet. Just a lack of trust, which hasn't been there for a while.

  20. #221

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Two points. There has been plenty. Much of right wing media was upset and spent tons of time, last week, for example, over the exclusion of the CNN reporter from a single event. And this was a pretty minor deal IMO.

    He's also been called out plenty by leaders in the GOP for his comments on twitter and other statements. So just because you don't notice it or think it's not enough, doesn't mean it's not there.

    Second point. You're getting close to "where are the good muslims condemning this behavior" territory. No one is obligated to the the ultimate representative of their group. We've been told this again and again. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Unless you're playing politics, right?
    Counterpoint was particularly to posts and posters in the thread similar:

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    ...

    The left has simply become psychotic and dangerous and someone is going to get killed - either accosting someone on the right or someone on the right is going to kill someone in self defense.

    ...

  21. #222

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    I guess I don't see your point. Pointing out that the rhetoric of the left is going to get someone accosted or someone killed needs to be called out?

  22. #223

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    But Eric seems to think they have it coming. Do they have violence coming Eric?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    The media ain't exactly those of us in the Midwest's best friend. They routinely castigate Trump voters as know nothing hill billies with an arsenal of weapons in their basements. They have pretty much made it their point to undermine anything the president does. I seem to recall them howling at the moon when Limbaugh said something as innocuous as "I hope he fails". Hindsight being 20/20 that comment (one of his more notorious) seems pretty tame in comparison to what I read today. I understand that for some reason or another Trump's behavior is somehow license to do all this, but I just don't agree. They have revealed themselves as opinionators and news makers. Not news reporters. They have no one to blame but themselves at this point in time. The administration has done nothing to hinder their progress. I also would add that the previous administration was vastly harsher on the press, just not to their face.

  23. #224

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    But Eric seems to think they have it coming. Do they have violence coming Eric?
    No, not what I implied at all. Only that they now have to struggle with being believed, and the associated criticism, particularly when putting on display their crocodile tears. Being critical of the press is hardly an affront to their 1st amendment rights.

    You are literally putting words in people's mouths and playing some sort of straw man game to try to make the "other side" look bad. I went back and read it again, several times, and in no way should someone without an agenda be able to extrapolate that I was saying violence is what they deserve.

  24. #225

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    No, not what I implied at all. Only that they now have to struggle with being believed, and the associated criticism, particularly when putting on display their crocodile tears. Being critical of the press is hardly an affront to their 1st amendment rights.

    You are literally putting words in people's mouths and playing some sort of straw man game to try to make the "other side" look bad. I went back and read it again, several times, and in no way should someone without an agenda be able to extrapolate that I was saying violence is what they deserve.
    I'm glad you clarified that. The post you responded to was the NYT saying about Trumps rhetoric "I warned that this inflammatory language is contributing to a rise in threats against journalists and will lead to violence," Jerry said this is just like Maxine Waters.

    And then rather than addressing "rise in threats against journalists" or soundly denouncing the rhetoric, you chose to ramble on about a straw man, media credibility.

    Now we sort of know what you really meant.

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