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  1. #151

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Swake View Post
    Does it get tiring to be wrong?

    Businesses DO have the right to refuse service for any reason, except for various legally prohibited classes such as the disabled, or for race, color, religion or national origin and in some states sexual orientation. But those are classes of people, a business can refuse service to an individual they don't like, so long as the reason they don't like that person is because they are a member of a protected class.

    If a business doesn't like the behavior of Sarah Huckabee Sanders and wants to refuse service, as happened here, they have the complete right to do so. I personally don't think they should have done it, but they have that right.

    https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/t...-of-appearance
    So I'm wrong that people can't refuse service for any reason because I didn't go through and list the reasons they can refuse service, which is in fact not for any reason possible under the sun?

    Political bent is actually a protected class not far from this little town where the Red Hen was (DC).

  2. #152

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    So I'm wrong that people can't refuse service for any reason because I didn't go through and list the reasons they can refuse service, which is in fact not for any reason possible under the sun?

    Political bent is actually a protected class not far from this little town where the Red Hen was (DC).
    She wasn't excluded for being a Republican. I'm sure many other Republicans eat there. The owner said her "restaurant has certain standards that I feel it has to uphold, such as honesty, and compassion, and cooperation" and that Sarah Sanders worked for an “inhumane and unethical” administration and that Sanders publicly defended the president’s cruelest policies.

    That has zero to do with any class, it's about Sander's personal behavior. So while I don't agree with what the owner did, it was her right and I do understand the sentiment. Sanders regularly lies to the American people who pay her salary, she staunchly defends and protects a bigoted, evil and corrupt president and administration.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.36cbde322632

  3. #153

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    So this policy would include any employee of the federal government, including the military?

  4. #154

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    So this policy would include any employee of the federal government, including the military?
    I'm not sure, but certainly not the FBI and DOJ since they are conspiring to take down Trump.

  5. #155

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Swake View Post
    She wasn't excluded for being a Republican. I'm sure many other Republicans eat there. The owner said her "restaurant has certain standards that I feel it has to uphold, such as honesty, and compassion, and cooperation" and that Sarah Sanders worked for an “inhumane and unethical” administration and that Sanders publicly defended the president’s cruelest policies.

    That has zero to do with any class, it's about Sander's personal behavior. So while I don't agree with what the owner did, it was her right and I do understand the sentiment. Sanders regularly lies to the American people who pay her salary, she staunchly defends and protects a bigoted, evil and corrupt president and administration.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.36cbde322632
    blows my mind that the same people who argue that a cake business doesn't have to provide services to a gay couple because the owners are able to serve customers based upon personal beliefs, are up in arms about an owner of a business refusing to provide service to a customer based upon their personal beliefs.

    note: this is not in anyways directed to Swake, as you state right here that you believe it is their right. just making a funny observation as a whole.

  6. #156

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jedicurt View Post
    blows my mind that the same people who argue that a cake business doesn't have to provide services to a gay couple because the owners are able to serve customers based upon personal beliefs, are up in arms about an owner of a business refusing to provide service to a customer based upon their personal beliefs.

    note: this is not in anyways directed to Swake, as you state right here that you believe it is their right. just making a funny observation as a whole.
    To clarify, and it's been pointed out repeatedly, it's still not the same thing. The cake shop would sell a cake or whatever standard product to a gay couple. They didn't want to use their artistic expression (IE: free speech) to design a specific cake design. They weren't flat out refusing custom. I'm extremely pro equality and just got done having a great weekend at Pride. However, I'm disturbed by the idea of legally forcing specific expression. Let the market correct it. And the fact that this was a targeted attempt to create victimhood makes it worse.

    The cake shop should pay the same price (or get the same benefit) as the restaurant. Publicity or infamy.

  7. #157

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    To clarify, and it's been pointed out repeatedly, it's still not the same thing. The cake shop would sell a cake or whatever standard product to a gay couple. They didn't want to use their artistic expression (IE: free speech) to design a specific cake design. They weren't flat out refusing custom. I'm extremely pro equality and just got done having a great weekend at Pride. However, I'm disturbed by the idea of legally forcing specific expression. Let the market correct it. And the fact that this was a targeted attempt to create victimhood makes it worse.

    The cake shop should pay the same price (or get the same benefit) as the restaurant. Publicity or infamy.
    Didn't the cake shop end up closing down?

    And yes, you hit the nail on the head. There is a difference. I understand what the restaurant did was totally legal, but that still doesn't make it the same as the cake shop owner.

    It also goes to somewhat delegitimize the restaurant owner's concern of decency and such when she the proceeds to follow the family to another restaurant and make a scene there.

  8. #158

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    She can't stand someone ambushing her while she appears to be at work. I don't agree with the tactic, but she brought it on herself


    https://bigleaguepolitics.com/watch-...maxine-waters/

  9. #159

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    It also goes to somewhat delegitimize the restaurant owner's concern of decency and such when she the proceeds to follow the family to another restaurant and make a scene there.
    Yeah, that's what Mike Huckabee claims, but his credibility is only slightly better than his daughters, who has absolutely zero credibility. The business of this family is lying.

    So I'm going to need some other source before believing this actually happened.

    If it happened, it is a shame and people should not act this way.

  10. #160

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Swake View Post
    Yeah, that's what Mike Huckabee claims, but his credibility is only slightly better than his daughters, who has absolutely zero credibility. The business of this family is lying.

    So I'm going to need some other source before believing this actually happened.

    If it happened, it is a shame and people should not act this way.
    Maybe so, but considering some of the other examples that have been verified recently, I wouldn't be surprised if it were true either.

  11. #161

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    Thank you. A voice of reason out of the fascist resistance crowd.

    IMO Waters has called for violence against anyone supporting the Trump Administration and should be thoroughly investgated by the Secret Service. Further, she should be thoroughy sanctioned by Congress.

    The problem is people aren’t stopping there. A group ran the Attorney General of Florida and her family - children included, out of a children's movie about Fred Rogers - promoting anti-bullying and tolerance. People were calling her names and yelling what a terrible person she was with her children present. 2 members of Trumps administration were confronted and forced to leave restaurants with their families in the last few days.

    The left is simply becoming psychotic, hateful and intolerant simply because of political belief. Bondi, in Florida, is not even part of the administration.

    These actions, the endless barrage of anti-Republican "satire", lowlife comedians saying unbelievably vile and violent things about administrationmembers, members of Congress calling for impeachment and resistance - all with little protest from other members of the left, is soon going to get people killed.

    What Maxine Waters said was encouragement of violence. It was a statement of totalitarianism. It was a statement calling for political intimidation, supression of political viewpoint and discourse. What's going to be next in California and with the left? Signs in store windows or on houses identifying Republicans? Are Conservatives / non-Democrats going to have to wear Gold Stars on our clothes? When will restaurants start asking diners their political affilliations? Oh, thats already happening as are some businesses pretty much requiring a liberal political stance to work at a company. This whole confrontation thing is about to get scary because the left is taking up fascist tactics - yet want all those folks on the right to agree to gun control? People like Maxine Waters are the exact reason most people are going to resist gun control.
    While you qualified your statement with a throwaway "IMO" it is based on the Kellie Conway alternate facts proposition. If you can cite where she called for violence against anybody I will be the first to apologize.
    And then there is Trump calling for violence multiple times.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/media/39...raged-violence

    The series of clips includes Trump telling supporters he'd like to punch a protester in the face and wondering if the "Second Amendment people" could stop then-Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.

    "Hillary Clinton wants to abolish the Second Amendment. By the way, if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is," Trump said at a campaign rally.

    Trump also encouraged his supporters at another event to "knock the crap" out of any protesters causing trouble.

    "I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees," Trump said.

  12. #162

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Maybe so, but considering some of the other examples that have been verified recently, I wouldn't be surprised if it were true either.
    "Some people say"....

  13. #163

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    While you qualified your statement with a throwaway "IMO" it is based on the Kellie Conway alternate facts proposition. If you can cite where she called for violence against anybody I will be the first to apologize.
    And then there is Trump calling for violence multiple times.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/media/39...raged-violence

    The series of clips includes Trump telling supporters he'd like to punch a protester in the face and wondering if the "Second Amendment people" could stop then-Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.

    "Hillary Clinton wants to abolish the Second Amendment. By the way, if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is," Trump said at a campaign rally.

    Trump also encouraged his supporters at another event to "knock the crap" out of any protesters causing trouble.

    "I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees," Trump said.
    is there where i post this?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

  14. #164

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    shocker of the night
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/26/polit...ary/index.html

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a 28-year-old Latina running her first campaign, ousted 10-term incumbent Rep. Joe Crowley in New York's 14th congressional district on Tuesday, CNN projects, in the most shocking upset of a rollicking political season.

  15. #165

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    I do think the DNC is going through a Tea Party type internal conflict. We'll have to see if it works out better or worse than it did for the GOP.

  16. #166

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    While you qualified your statement with a throwaway "IMO" it is based on the Kellie Conway alternate facts proposition. If you can cite where she called for violence against anybody I will be the first to apologize.
    And then there is Trump calling for violence multiple times.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/media/39...raged-violence

    The series of clips includes Trump telling supporters he'd like to punch a protester in the face and wondering if the "Second Amendment people" could stop then-Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.

    "Hillary Clinton wants to abolish the Second Amendment. By the way, if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is," Trump said at a campaign rally.

    Trump also encouraged his supporters at another event to "knock the crap" out of any protesters causing trouble.

    "I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees," Trump said.
    I donít care and it's not what were talking about. We are talking about your ridiculous statement and the left subtly promotes violence or acts that will eventually get violent. I don't like Trump, I don't like how he speaks, he's cost me thousands of dollars with some of his stupid economic moves of late but he was elected per the laws that were put in place way before my time. Like it or not, he's there. Elect someone else next time.

    What I'm talking about a half-witted old hag who holds influence in her community inciting people to harass members of this administration simply because of politics. She is calling on left-wing hate-gangs to publicly insult them in front of friends and family no matter if their children are there or not. Its not limited just to restaurants, she encouraged people to protest where cabinet members live. She encouraged them to harass cabinet members anywhere they are seen. This is simply a violation of constitutional rights to privacy and free movement.

    The problem is it doesn't stop at just the T administration either. How about the Florida Attorney General getting harassed out of a movie documentary about Fred Rogers with her boyfriend and children present calling her a horrible person and shame on her?

    Another member, regarding Net Neutrality. had people protesting outside his house as he was taking his kids to school. Protestors were yelling at his kids and held signs directed at his kids insulting their father.

    The left has simply become psychotic and dangerous and someone is going to get killed - either accosting someone on the right or someone on the right is going to kill someone in self defense.

    Average people are being harassed for wearing the Trump MAGA hat. The news reported an incident that nearly became violent when a leftist idiot mistook what KRAV MAGA on his shirt was and started mouthing off. Even my wife, who despises Trump, had a woman try to get into an altercation when she expressed a view to someone else the woman overheard and didn't like.

  17. #167

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Didn't the cake shop end up closing down?
    No, it's still operating.

  18. #168

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Mitch McConnell accosted by protestors - he's not part of Trump's Administration. Maxine Waters is simply encouragement for a broader base of incivility - simply political beliefs. Someone is going to get killed.

  19. #169

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    I think I have found out theTravelers true identity, and he writes for HuffPo (naturally).

    **** Civility by Michelangelo Signorile

  20. Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    I think I have found out theTravelers true identity, and he writes for HuffPo (naturally).

    **** Civility by Michelangelo Signorile
    Ha, not me, although I do read his work often enough to recognize it without his byline. Haven't read that piece by him yet, but have to say that all the calls for civility by the absolute most uncivil administration and their supporters in most likely all of US history (heard another early presidency was pretty bad too, but can't remember which one) is pretty hypocritical...

  21. #171

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    Mitch McConnell accosted by protestors - he's not part of Trump's Administration. Maxine Waters is simply encouragement for a broader base of incivility - simply political beliefs. Someone is going to get killed.
    Milo Yiannopoulos called for 'gunning journalists down on sight,' says it was 'private joke'

    Right-wing provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos recently told at least two news outlets that he wanted vigilantes to start shooting journalists, but he insisted Thursday that he did so to taunt reporters.

    "I can't wait for vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight," the author and agitator told a reporter for the New York Observer over a text message. The news outlet, which wrote about the incident this week, was working on a feature story about a New York City restaurant that Yiannopoulos reportedly frequents.

    Yiannopoulos, when asked to elaborate, told the reporter this was his "standard response," according to the Observer.

    Yiannopoulos also also sent a similar message to Will Sommer, a Daily Beast reporter.

    On Thursday, a gunman opened fired in an Annapolis, Md., newsroom, killing five people and injuring several others. Authorities have not said what the motive was or who was being targeted.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nts/743561002/

    Possibly a coincidence but the call for deadly violence is there either way. I wonder how many tweets we'll see from Trump about Milo Yiannopoulos? (or rants by mugofbeer about the right calling for violence.) Trump has in the past called the press "the enemy" and the "greatest threat to the country."

  22. #172

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Well, I hope everyone had a better 4th than this guy...

    3 reasons the American Revolution was a mistake @ Vox

    So the best day to post this article, the day we celebrate literally the biggest reason that humanity has improved over the last few hundred years. Yeah, we should have just left if up to the British?

    Look I understand that the US has had it's faults, but no nation has single handedly benefited the world more than we have. Period, Hard stop, end of story.

    This totally is a perfect frame of reference to which most articles at Vox are written. Fortunately for this guy the Bill of Rights that stemmed from the very event he mourns affords him the right to publish such idiocy.

  23. #173

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Well, I hope everyone had a better 4th than this guy...

    3 reasons the American Revolution was a mistake @ Vox

    So the best day to post this article, the day we celebrate literally the biggest reason that humanity has improved over the last few hundred years. Yeah, we should have just left if up to the British?

    Look I understand that the US has had it's faults, but no nation has single handedly benefited the world more than we have. Period, Hard stop, end of story.

    This totally is a perfect frame of reference to which most articles at Vox are written. Fortunately for this guy the Bill of Rights that stemmed from the very event he mourns affords him the right to publish such idiocy.
    Well, technically, declaring independence made them treasonous criminals. I guess it depends on whether one thinks it's more important to follow the law or follow principles.

  24. #174

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by BDP View Post
    Well, technically, declaring independence made them treasonous criminals. I guess it depends on whether one thinks it's more important to follow the law or follow principles.
    Did you read the article?

  25. #175

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Did you read the article?
    Not really. I was just having fun with the logic du jour.

    It seemed like it was a re-imagining of United States history based on changing one variable and, while that can be interesting, it's impossible to know how any of it would have really played out.

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