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  1. Default Re: The national political landscape

    https://www.salon.com/2017/12/13/ame...aliban/?page=1

    Excerpt (although you should read the whole article, not just the excerpt):

    They’re not stopping there.They aren’t even pretending anymore. They’re running on this stuff.

    Suppress the votes of fellow citizens who are black, latino, and poor? Check.

    Keep them in poverty by refusing to raise the $7.25 minimum wage? Check.

    Allow owners of restaurants to collect tips and dole them out any goddamn way they want? Check.

    Take away the ability of teachers to deduct money they spend out of their own pocket to help educate their students? Check.

    Tax contract workers’ income at regular rates while taxing owners’ pass-through income at lower rates? Check.

    Lower corporate tax rates while raising workers’ taxes? Check.

    Repeal the Johnson Amendment so billionaires could make tax-deductible “donations” to churches which could turn around and spend the same money on political campaigns? Check.

    Make it harder for workers to file discrimination suits? Check.

    Make it easier for polluters to foul the air and water? Check.

    Appoint a Secretary of Education who wants to privatize public education? Check.

    Allow billionaires to deduct certain expenses for their Gulfstreams? Check.

    Leave in place laws that allow offshore trusts and other tax avoidance schemes used by millionaires and billionaires? Check.

    Prepare the upcoming 2020 Census so it will provide a population count ripe for corrupt gerrymandering? Check.

    Pass an insane law that will enable lunatics to carry concealed guns across state lines into places where concealed-carry is illegal? Check.

    It’s not a nightmare, it’s a goddamned political program, and they don’t need Donald Trump to carry it out. Everything we’ve seen over the last month proves that every Republican currently breathing oxygen stands foursquare behind this stuff. If they were willing to support Roy Moore’s failed campaign for United States Senate, they’ll do anything. They’re in it for the long haul and they won’t stop. They’ll nibble at our democracy until it’s a skeleton lying in a globally-warmed desert somewhere in a formally blue state where it used to rain.

  2. Default Re: The national political landscape

    https://www.salon.com/2018/02/06/how...-our-politics/

    Yes, Democrats gerrymandered too, but not to that extent, and it's bad when *any* party does it.

  3. #53

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Nah. Gerrymandering is needed but there's a reason why courts get involved.

  4. #54

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Nah. Gerrymandering is needed but there's a reason why courts get involved.
    Why do you feel it’s needed?

  5. #55

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Why do you feel it’s needed?
    It helps to correct underepresented portions of the population and ensures it's not just majority rule.

    The Senate, governors, and presidential races are all unaffected by gerrymandering. But reps need to rep. When used properly, which isn't always so and why courts need to be involved, it ensures there are minority reps and such. It cuts both ways, btw. There are states where there would be no Dem reps and states with no GOP reps without it. Also no black reps. Or Hispanic. That's why it exists.

  6. Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    It helps to correct underepresented portions of the population and ensures it's not just majority rule.

    The Senate, governors, and presidential races are all unaffected by gerrymandering. But reps need to rep. When used properly, which isn't always so and why courts need to be involved, it ensures there are minority reps and such. It cuts both ways, btw. There are states where there would be no Dem reps and states with no GOP reps without it. Also no black reps. Or Hispanic. That's why it exists.
    But that's not gerrymandering, is it, that's just the way things should be done?

    ger·ry·man·der
    ˈjerēˌmandər/Submit
    verb
    gerund or present participle: gerrymandering
    manipulate the boundaries of (an electoral constituency) so as to favor one party or class.

  7. #57

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    It helps to correct underepresented portions of the population and ensures it's not just majority rule.

    The Senate, governors, and presidential races are all unaffected by gerrymandering. But reps need to rep. When used properly, which isn't always so and why courts need to be involved, it ensures there are minority reps and such. It cuts both ways, btw. There are states where there would be no Dem reps and states with no GOP reps without it. Also no black reps. Or Hispanic. That's why it exists.
    So, do you agree with the electoral college method of conducting Presidential elections that allow a President to be elected without a manority?

  8. #58

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    manority = majority. sorry

  9. #59

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    So, do you agree with the electoral college method of conducting Presidential elections that allow a President to be elected without a manority?
    Yes.

  10. #60

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    But that's not gerrymandering, is it, that's just the way things should be done?

    ger·ry·man·der
    ˈjerēˌmandər/Submit
    verb
    gerund or present participle: gerrymandering
    manipulate the boundaries of (an electoral constituency) so as to favor one party or class.
    Yes. As I said, that's the point. For example, let's say you elected in Oklahoma statewide, or even on a grid system. How many black or democratic representatives would you think we'd have. And yes, it can be abused, and has been by both parties. This is why the courts get involved.

    It's not a perfect system, but it's better than none to be sure.

  11. Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Yes. As I said, that's the point. For example, let's say you elected in Oklahoma statewide, or even on a grid system. How many black or democratic representatives would you think we'd have. And yes, it can be abused, and has been by both parties. This is why the courts get involved.

    It's not a perfect system, but it's better than none to be sure.
    I don't think you're getting my point - gerrrymandering is when it *favors* one party or class, it is not to make things a level playing field, which is how things should be. I don't know the technical term for "manipulating the boundaries of an electoral constituency so the number of representatives represents each political party proportionally according to the party percentages of the population in the state" (if you have 30% R and 70% D in the population as a whole, and have 10 reps and 3 are R and 7 are D), but I don't think it's gerrymandering.

  12. #62

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Class can mean race or underrepresented minority. And yes, as for percentages, that is the definition of gerrymandering b

  13. #63

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Here's a decent article on this -

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...mocracy-119581

  14. #64

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Q: Do you believe in the current electoral college system of electingthe President? A: Yes.
    Good. Your arguement about gerrymandering is exactly the reason we have the system. So many on the left are shooting themselves in the foot because of the Presidential election results they don't see the benefit of it. My wife and I have a running disagreement on this issue.

  15. Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    I never believed the 2nd or 3rd myths, for what it's worth, interesting difference between partisan and non-partisan gerrymandering, though. So how do you square (ha) what this article says with what the article I posted says and with the reality that the GOP has gerrymandered themselves into massive amounts of districts/control/power if it's not so bad? Is it a matter of volume of districts gerrymandered or something else?

  16. #66

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    Good. Your arguement about gerrymandering is exactly the reason we have the system. So many on the left are shooting themselves in the foot because of the Presidential election results they don't see the benefit of it. My wife and I have a running disagreement on this issue.
    What is the reason we have the electoral college?


  17. #68

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    I've only heard clips from the awards show on Sunday, but have seen enough of the other ones to know what goes on in general. Would be interesting to see this comment made in this day in age (Time's Up movement and all). But I know it's a sentiment that so many of the ticket buying public probably shares. About the time they realize that the pretend for a living, is about the time they will start making good movies again.


  18. #69

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    I never believed the 2nd or 3rd myths, for what it's worth, interesting difference between partisan and non-partisan gerrymandering, though. So how do you square (ha) what this article says with what the article I posted says and with the reality that the GOP has gerrymandered themselves into massive amounts of districts/control/power if it's not so bad? Is it a matter of volume of districts gerrymandered or something else?
    I think you could just as easily argue that the Democratic party has abandoned much of middle America. They've got a stranglehold in some very high population areas, The DNC made strategic decisions to focus on those areas and not the rest of the country. When 2/3 of state governors are Republican (which wouldn't be affected by gerrymandering), it shows poor performance by Dems in statewide elections across the country.

    The national DNC is incredibly poorly run. And I say this as someone who has repeatedly criticized the Oklahoma Republican party for its incompetence (the only reason they keep shooting themselves in the foot is because they haven't figured out how to aim the gun at their face yet).

  19. #70

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by hoya View Post
    I think you could just as easily argue that the Democratic party has abandoned much of middle America. They've got a stranglehold in some very high population areas, The DNC made strategic decisions to focus on those areas and not the rest of the country. When 2/3 of state governors are Republican (which wouldn't be affected by gerrymandering), it shows poor performance by Dems in statewide elections across the country.

    The national DNC is incredibly poorly run. And I say this as someone who has repeatedly criticized the Oklahoma Republican party for its incompetence (the only reason they keep shooting themselves in the foot is because they haven't figured out how to aim the gun at their face yet).
    It's pretty much rural vs urban. Oklahoma City and Tulsa are anomalies for being so conservative. Cities this large in all other states are much more liberal.

    In my opinion it all goes back to the two big wedge issues; abortion and LGBT+ rights (you can toss guns and Islam in with that as well). Republicans can't be too incompetent because at the end of the day, the alternative is voting for somebody who supports abortion and homosexuality and most of the Republican base cannot religiously justify doing so. It's a heaven or hell situation for them so they bite the bullet and vote Republican. If this wasn't the case, as poorly as things are going in Oklahoma right now we would definitely see change.

    I don't agree with Jerry Falwell and I think he did more damage to both our national politics and to Christianity than anybody else in the past 50 years, but he was a political genius. The Democratic Party's problem is its too fractured. It doesn't have one common rallying cry to drive the base to the polls like "Christian values" does for the right.

  20. #71

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    She gave a really good interview on The Ezra Klein Show, if you're interested: https://art19.com/shows/the-ezra-kle...aylist_size=5# (the Amy Chua episode).

  21. #72

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Apparently high school isn't early enough to expose kids to the "benefits" of Planned Parenthood...



    Good grief.

  22. #73

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Apparently high school isn't early enough to expose kids to the "benefits" of Planned Parenthood...



    Good grief.
    Here's the full story.

    https://www.sfgate.com/entertainment...e-12784704.php

    This is definitely something Fox News and other conservative media will have a heyday with.

  23. #74

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    Here's the full story.

    https://www.sfgate.com/entertainment...e-12784704.php

    This is definitely something Fox News and other conservative media will have a heyday with.
    I hope you are not implying I was being misleading, I posted the whole tweet.

    Not really sure what your link added. It certainly didn't paint it in a more appealing light. It was meant to be political, it was called out as stupid, it was deleted once author realized how stupid (or bad publicity) it really was. Did I miss something?

  24. #75

    Default Re: The national political landscape

    What we need are shorter lines at Disney world.
    Don't hassle me, I'm local.

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