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  1. Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Yes, all the majors posted this one, but with what proof? The only plausible proof denies it, yet you call that person the liar? OK.
    As I said, Trump's record isn't great and he is absolutely not trustworthy:

    http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

    In your opinion, what makes that article fake news?

  2. #77

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    As I said, Trump's record isn't great and he is absolutely not trustworthy:

    http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

    In your opinion, what makes that article fake news?
    It's agenda news. There is no source, at least no one willing to come forward? Someone probably heard something who heard something from somebody else. Is this really the level of credibility you expect? It's all made up in my opinion. The fact that maybe they guess right 50% of the time doesn't legitimize it.

  3. #78

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Who knew Pulitzer prizes are given to fake news outlets. Naturally, if its about trump and it isn't covered in gold leaf and described in terms less than 100% laudatory, it must be fake.

  4. #79

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond_Outsider View Post
    Who knew Pulitzer prizes are given to fake news outlets. Naturally, if its about trump and it isn't covered in gold leaf and described in terms less than 100% laudatory, it must be fake.
    Awards can give a false sense of superiority. No?

    A Nobel Peace Prize was given to Obama.

    And who @ Salon got a Pulitzer?

  5. Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Awards can give a false sense of superiority. No?

    A Nobel Peace Prize was given to Obama.

    And who @ Salon got a Pulitzer?
    I think he was talking about Politifact winning a Pulitzer, not Salon. And yeah, the Nobel Peace Prize given to Obama is absurd.

    As far as it all being made up, who knows for sure? It sounds absolutely believable to me that Trump or his team would ask for top secret clearances for his kids (and their spouses) given how integrated (totally wrong and unethical, though, IMO) they are in his team.

  6. #81

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    I think he was talking about Politifact winning a Pulitzer, not Salon. And yeah, the Nobel Peace Prize given to Obama is absurd.

    As far as it all being made up, who knows for sure? It sounds absolutely believable to me that Trump or his team would ask for top secret clearances for his kids (and their spouses) given how integrated (totally wrong and unethical, though, IMO) they are in his team.
    Oh, I was so not thinking about politifact, I was thinking several posts previous. My mistake. I'm not saying it's all fake, but there is quite a bit of hypothesis and innuendo masquerading as news now-a-days. Which puts it on par with Breitbart and just a breath away from Info Wars. Cause you know Jones ain't providing sources either.

  7. #82

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    It seems as though people are working so hard to accommodate the chaos basket of the president elect, they can't tell what they denying or defending any longer. That's sort of funny and sad at the same time.

  8. #83

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Only because I've evidently framed this as partisan, an interesting bi-partisan statement from people in a better place to judge than partisans like me:

    “Recent reports of Russian interference in our election should alarm every American…. Democrats and Republicans must work together, and across the jurisdictional lines of the Congress, to examine these recent incidents thoroughly and devise comprehensive solutions to deter and defend against further cyberattacks.
    John McCain
    Lindsey Graham
    Chuck Schumer
    Jack Reed

  9. #84

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond_Outsider View Post
    Only because I've evidently framed this as partisan, an interesting bi-partisan statement from people in a better place to judge than partisans like me:
    It almost seems to be a traditional bipartisan position vs. a Trump camp position. I kind of expect to see a lot of that actually.

  10. #85

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    I posted in an earlier thread about the possibility of a temperamental and fragile party unity. I feel as though the idea was scoffed at. Ok.

    I wasn't then or now predicting or hoping for chaos in or failure of the new government. If only praise is going to be acceptable by trump supporters with no possibility for dessent or debate, it will be difficult to govern if thaT is the intention.

  11. #86

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    I posted in the Trump thread. Guess it goes here, too. Here's the FBI release (complete with best practices to try and avoid this stuff!):

    https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/defaul...-2016-1229.pdf

  12. #87

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?


  13. #88

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond_Outsider View Post
    It seems as though people are working so hard to accommodate the chaos basket of the president elect, they can't tell what they denying or defending any longer. That's sort of funny and sad at the same time.
    I think the same thing can be said about the left falling all over themselves to deflect attention from the multiple failures the Obama administration HAS presided over. The left has let hackers open their email files to show the collaboration between the administration, the campaign and the media/entertainment complex. The left is working So hard to accommodate the gross incompetence and obvious circumvention of regulations with Hilary's private email server ź not to mention the intentional systematic destruction of tens of thousands of emails. Oh, and then there's the incredible record of State even after Hilary's total lack of accomplishments. Kerry managed to alienate most every ally the US has. My God - the incredible arrogance of the way he lectured Israel last week. Even if you don't agree with their policy on settlements, you simply don't publicly hang a primary ally who is hated by 75% of the rest of the bigoted world. Iraq invaded Kuwait on perceived lack of support such as this. Have they done one thing to stop the war that is going on right here in Chicago? Millions join anti-war protests when 1000 volunteer soldiers are killed in the middle-east while the play golf while 750 are gunned down JUST in Chicago in 2016. I guess black lives don't matter that much even to Obama when it comes to politics and protecting his political friends who run most large cities.

  14. #89

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    I think the same thing can be said about the left falling all over themselves to deflect attention from the multiple failures the Obama administration HAS presided over. The left has let hackers open their email files to show the collaboration between the administration, the campaign and the media/entertainment complex. The left is working So hard to accommodate the gross incompetence and obvious circumvention of regulations with Hilary's private email server ź not to mention the intentional systematic destruction of tens of thousands of emails. Oh, and then there's the incredible record of State even after Hilary's total lack of accomplishments. Kerry managed to alienate most every ally the US has. My God - the incredible arrogance of the way he lectured Israel last week. Even if you don't agree with their policy on settlements, you simply don't publicly hang a primary ally who is hated by 75% of the rest of the bigoted world. Iraq invaded Kuwait on perceived lack of support such as this. Have they done one thing to stop the war that is going on right here in Chicago? Millions join anti-war protests when 1000 volunteer soldiers are killed in the middle-east while the play golf while 750 are gunned down JUST in Chicago in 2016. I guess black lives don't matter that much even to Obama when it comes to politics and protecting his political friends who run most large cities.
    Interesting position on Israel, considering that the UK, Australia, Egypt and others, many of which are far better allies than Israel, voted for it. Is the UK bigoted? Australia? Perhaps you'd like to name some of the previous Secretaries of State accomplishments? Or is this just some partisan word salad?

  15. #90

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    On the subjects of hacking, etc. the State of Georgia is claiming someone from within the U.S. Department of Homeland Security tried to hack into their computer systems containing voter information:

    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/08/homel...se-report.html

  16. #91

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by TU 'cane View Post
    On the subjects of hacking, etc. the State of Georgia is claiming someone from within the U.S. Department of Homeland Security tried to hack into their computer systems containing voter information:

    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/08/homel...se-report.html
    https://www.cyberscoop.com/dhs-georg...rk-not-a-hack/

    There's little to no detail available on this "accusation". Were there unsuccessful login attempts? Brute force password attempts? Ping sweeps? Vulnerability scanning?

  17. #92

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Apparently this is old news, but I didn't hear of it until today.
    The sec of state of Georgia stated an IP address traced to DHS tried logging into restricted systems without their knowing. They then contacted DHS wanting to know what/where/who/why?

    DHS apparently stated it was "legitimate work:"

    https://www.cyberscoop.com/dhs-georg...rk-not-a-hack/

  18. #93

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by TU 'cane View Post
    Apparently this is old news, but I didn't hear of it until today.
    The sec of state of Georgia stated an IP address traced to DHS tried logging into restricted systems without their knowing. They then contacted DHS wanting to know what/where/who/why?

    DHS apparently stated it was "legitimate work:"

    https://www.cyberscoop.com/dhs-georg...rk-not-a-hack/
    DHS is tasked with domestic infrastructure protection, which includes state and federal computer networks. Both sides of the report are declining to offer any detail as to what actually happened, so it's all just speculation at this point.

  19. #94

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chadanth View Post
    Interesting position on Israel, considering that the UK, Australia, Egypt and others, many of which are far better allies than Israel, voted for it. Is the UK bigoted? Australia? Perhaps you'd like to name some of the previous Secretaries of State accomplishments? Or is this just some partisan word salad?
    Really? I'd have a hard time quantifying it, but Israel is one of our most important allies, especially when it comes to the middle east. And as for ones that voted for it... well sure, they followed our lead.

  20. #95

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Really? I'd have a hard time quantifying it, but Israel is one of our most important allies, especially when it comes to the middle east. And as for ones that voted for it... well sure, they followed our lead.
    How did they follow our lead? We abstained, they voted affirmative.

  21. #96

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by checkthat View Post
    How did they follow our lead? We abstained, they voted affirmative.
    We abstained, under pressure. We clearly telegraphed (or rather, Kerry did) how we wanted the vote to go. Which is why we abstained, and didn't veto. Weaksauce and cowardly towards an important ally and will probably make lots of folks lives more dangerous.

    I'm glad Israel is withholding UN funding over this. They should.

  22. #97

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Really? I'd have a hard time quantifying it, but Israel is one of our most important allies, especially when it comes to the middle east. And as for ones that voted for it... well sure, they followed our lead.
    I'm curious to know why you believe Israel is one of our most important allies.."especially when it comes to the middle east".

    What does Israel help us do that we couldn't do on our own in the Middle East?

    Serious question.

  23. #98

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    So, since the administration is now in cahoots with Russia, does that mean we now support Iran?

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/diplomats...132551463.html

  24. #99

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    So, since the administration is now in cahoots with Russia, does that mean we now support Iran?

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/diplomats...132551463.html
    Support Iran in what way? I guess you could say we support a peaceful Iran. If they violate the agreement or start aggressively annexing sovereign countries, then there's nothing to indicate we support that.

    Also, I'm not sure how in cahoots Trump is with Russia at this point. It does seem Russia favored his candidacy, but we don't know if there is any quid pro quo there. I think we'll know that if Tillerson is confirmed and he lobbies to unconditionally drop sanctions.

  25. #100

    Default Re: Russia, something or nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cid View Post
    I'm curious to know why you believe Israel is one of our most important allies.."especially when it comes to the middle east".

    What does Israel help us do that we couldn't do on our own in the Middle East?

    Serious question.
    Lets see... they're about our only ally in the region that doesn't indirectly or directly fund and aid in terrorism. The Dimona radar facility is of high strategic importance for us. They were a critical bulwark against the Soviet Union and their influence in the middle east during the cold war. Israel has been instrumental in limiting the proliferation of nuclear weapons in hostile states. They're a major intelligence source. They provide (sell to us) some of our best and most cutting edge military technology. Israeli IT and business sectors have been instrumental in the economy and growth of silicon valley. They're also important in US/Arab relations (by giving us leverage). They're also, AFAIK, the only true democracy in the middle east.

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