Oklahoma’s request for Real ID Act extension denied

[Bunty]

This is just one more example of an ignorant legislature having their ill conceived laws overturned. Their record is abysmal and we should be tired of their stupidity. Vote them out and get legislators who actually understand what their real responsibilities are. Their loyalty should be to Oklahomans and not the tea party nonsense.

We should all be tired of being identified on a national stage by these backward hicks.

A recent SoonerPoll helps prove you right. A majority of conservatives, the people who rule Oklahoma, believe Oklahoma has been going in the right direction. Rural people are more likely to think the state has been going in the right direction than OKC and Tulsa area people. When everybody is included in the poll only a small majority believe that Oklahoma is going in the wrong direction. There is a large amount of difference between how conservatives feel and everybody else. The poll goes to help explain why Oklahoma is the way it is. Yes, hopefully, at least a few conservative legislators can be voted out in Nov., especially the far right Christian ones. But keep those legislators in, and they will think they must have been doing something right all along, such as opposing Real ID. So will keep coming up with and voting for bad, sometimes unconstitutional bills.

http://soonerpoll.com/news9newson6-a...ght-direction/

[Bunty]

Take that to the politics forum. None of that has anything to do with the wide spread, and bipartisan opposition to the Real ID Act. Read the ACLU's position on it, as well as many other groups. This doesn't belong here.

Then this topic should have started in the politics forum.

[stile99]

The cost of having to upgrade the IT infrastructure is the main reason Oklahoma hasn't adopted Real ID.

That simply isn't true. Real ID was being discussed when Oklahoma installed the first digital driver's license system over a decade ago, a system which has been upgraded at least once since. There were news reports at that time that changes were coming to DL requirements, and Oklahoma specifically made the choice to ignore it. Twice. Once after it was no longer in the discussion phase, but actual law on the books phase. We can debate privacy issues, we can debate identity protection issues, we can debate whatever we want until the cows come home, but what is not up for debate is the fact that Oklahoma has had more than enough time and opportunity to become compliant, and the reason it is going to be a huge cost now is because Oklahoma has refused to do it until it is simply too late.

Is it a bad law? Maybe. Does ignoring bad laws make them go away? Absolutely not. Oklahoma should have learned that better than anyone else. The main reason Oklahoma hasn't adopted Real ID is absolutely not the cost of upgrading the infrastructure if Oklahoma has already spent those costs TWICE. Add to that the infrastructure is already there. Your photo, your fingerprints, your other information, all already stored.

[jerrywall]

Then this topic should have started in the politics forum.

No... if someone wants to talk about the state of Oklahoma politics and not the real id, they can start a thread there.

[jerrywall]

Might as well stick to a passport card that lasts for 10 years vs a drivers licence that last for four years and its pretty easy to renew a passport. Do you have to provide all that documentation the first time you get a real ID or is that every time you renew. It will be pretty ridiculous if it is easier to renew a passport than it is a real id DL every 4 years.

I would assume you would only need to go through that process once, assuming you renewed on a timely basis (as it works now).

[ctchandler]

Then this topic should have started in the politics forum.

Bunty,
This is not a place for political comments. The subject can be discussed without getting into politics. You can start the same thread name in the political section, your political comments don't belong here! Your comments are welcome otherwise. Not trying to be argumentative, just my opinion.
C. T.
ps. Sorry, I just noticed Jerrywall's comment that pretty much says what I said.

[traxx]

Bunty,
This is not a place for political comments. The subject can be discussed without getting into politics. You can start the same thread name in the political section, your political comments don't belong here! Your comments are welcome otherwise. Not trying to be argumentative, just my opinion.
C. T.
ps. Sorry, I just noticed Jerrywall's comment that pretty much says what I said.

Agree.

It's getting to where you can hardly open a thread on here without someone saying how stupid our government is or how dumb the people at 23rd and Lincoln are. So many of these threads can be discussed without bringing politics into it.

[bombermwc]

That simply isn't true. Real ID was being discussed when Oklahoma installed the first digital driver's license system over a decade ago, a system which has been upgraded at least once since. There were news reports at that time that changes were coming to DL requirements, and Oklahoma specifically made the choice to ignore it. Twice. Once after it was no longer in the discussion phase, but actual law on the books phase. We can debate privacy issues, we can debate identity protection issues, we can debate whatever we want until the cows come home, but what is not up for debate is the fact that Oklahoma has had more than enough time and opportunity to become compliant, and the reason it is going to be a huge cost now is because Oklahoma has refused to do it until it is simply too late.

Is it a bad law? Maybe. Does ignoring bad laws make them go away? Absolutely not. Oklahoma should have learned that better than anyone else. The main reason Oklahoma hasn't adopted Real ID is absolutely not the cost of upgrading the infrastructure if Oklahoma has already spent those costs TWICE. Add to that the infrastructure is already there. Your photo, your fingerprints, your other information, all already stored.

In total agreement here.

[Rover]

Agree.

It's getting to where you can hardly open a thread on here without someone saying how stupid our government is or how dumb the people at 23rd and Lincoln are. So many of these threads can be discussed without bringing politics into it.

But, it was the stupidity of the tea party at 23 and Lincoln who have fought this and lost again. This is about their paranoia of a one world order that signals the beginning of the end. Their thread is about the results of that paranoid interpretation.

[jerrywall]

But, it was the stupidity of the tea party at 23 and Lincoln who have fought this and lost again. This is about their paranoia of a one world order that signals the beginning of the end. Their thread is about the results of that paranoid interpretation.

You mean years before the tea party existed, opposing a Bush law, lead by Democrats and the ACLU, and signed into law by Brad Henry? How cute. But let's keep politicizing everything. Want to guess how many Republican bills were proposed to fix this vs Democratic bills? Or how the votes broke down?

[Bunty]

Bunty,
This is not a place for political comments. The subject can be discussed without getting into politics. You can start the same thread name in the political section, your political comments don't belong here! Your comments are welcome otherwise. Not trying to be argumentative, just my opinion.
C. T.
ps. Sorry, I just noticed Jerrywall's comment that pretty much says what I said.

Then I quite strongly gather you and jerrywall don't appreciate my political remarks, because you are both Republicans, who are looking forward to voting your incumbent state Republican legislators back in office. What a damned shame, if true.

It's not easy to escape the politics of Real ID ban since it came from the State Capitol.

[stile99]

And here I thought they didn't appreciate your off-topic political comments because this isn't the politics forum. How silly of me.

[ctchandler]

Then I quite strongly gather you and jerrywall don't appreciate my political remarks, because you are both Republicans, who are looking forward to voting your incumbent state Republican legislators back in office. What a damned shame, if true.

It's not easy to escape the politics of Real ID ban since it came from the State Capitol.

Bunty,
Actually, I just don't enjoy a good conversation if politics have to take center stage. That's why after I visited the political area when I first enjoyed this group, I have never gone to it again. Life's too short. There is a place for everything and that's why somebody started the "Politics" forum. I'm a moderator of a Yahoo group where anything is allowed, but the rule is, provide enough information in the "Subject" line to allow members to avoid things they don't enjoy. Our subject line works like the forum names on the OKCTalk and allow us (me) to participate in things that are interesting to me, and avoid those that are not. A few of our OKCTalk members have made this thread that I am interested in not "enjoyable" for me, so my option is to quit viewing it or suggest to those folk to reserve political comments for the proper forum. It is obvious that they are not willing to do that, so I will bow out and just avoid this particular thread.
C. T.

[JohnH_in_OKC]

I started this thread thinking that this should not be a political issue. No Oklahoman wants a driver's license that doesn't allow them to fly on commercial aircraft or be denied access to federal government property. Any legislator still talking about having about having an optional Oklahoma driver's license that is not Real ID compliant is just ignoring common sense and national security. This is a "get 'er done" issue, the faster the better. That's why I feel my proposed a 3 day special session of the legislature to solve our problem is warranted. If we start issuing Real ID compliant driver's licenses by January 1st and make all driver's licenses expire in 2017, we solve Oklahoma's problem by the end of 2017.

[TU 'cane]

An opinion piece from Reason (libertarian-leaning) on the national REAL-ID. Rather short and slightly mocking in nature as it makes the point that people are already amping up the fake IDs and are still passing them even with some of these new standards:

http://reason.com/archives/2017/01/1...e-need-fake-id

IMO, the REAL-ID has always been about a NATIONAL ID (or really international) with a single database as the core for easier monitoring of us (criminals and non-criminals alike) by these "entities." It's more than just about being able to fly (as Reason points out above, they're scaring us into compliance with their own propaganda). It's about having a debate about what little sovereignty we have left as independent individuals in this country. By applying a national ID stamp on each of us, we lose value as individuals and are all syphoned into a big server where we are, make no mistake, tracked and monitored. What do you all think a Fusion Center is? There's one in Norman (or was).

*Removes tinfoil hat*

Not going to argue with anyone, just posting for additional perspective.

[jompster]

I agree with you. We already have a national ID. It's called a social security number, and there is a reason we do not have them on our state-issued licenses now. The whole thing is a huge crock of crap.

[jerrywall]

From what I understand, there's no "national" part of this act. It's about minimum standards in the production and granting of state ID's. The information is still retained at the state level.

[TU 'cane]

From what I understand, there's no "national" part of this act. It's about minimum standards in the production and granting of state ID's. The information is still retained at the state level.

You may technically be correct, but there are national uniform standards that are needing to be met.
Every ID, while they may still have our own states and details on them, will be the same under the hood.

[bombermwc]

The more people learn about the actual technical details on this, the more people realize it's not the big brother end of the world that uber-libertarians are trying to make it out to be. I'm a democratic moderate (although registered republican), so just to put that out there. I guess some would call be liberal though based on how i view a lot of things....depends on what audience you're talking to.

In the beginning, about half of the states were against this. But dont believe all the bullcrap you read on why. A lof of those issues were simply funding issues. It was not as though the whole country was fighting the "guberment" on this thing. Slowly, but surely, we could see more states getting this resolved until in the last year, the list of "non-compliant" states was down to what you can count on one hand. Oklahoma being one of them. And at this point, any discussion of what we THINK is the problem here, the law isn't going to change. So you have two options as an Oklahoman....regardless how much you piss and moan, these are your options:

1 - Continue fighting a battle until OK is the only state left and no one outside of OK gives a flipping crap about it anymore. This means, go ahead and start your paperwork for a passport since you wont be able to use your driver's license at any airport (including those in OK). Hey, I've already got one, what do i care....and they're good for a lot longer than a driver's license. The information you're SOOOO concerned about, is all given up to the federal database when you get that passport too. So either way, you're going to give up the info. And now it's going to be in the federal database, not just the state's.

2 - Get over our misguided views on how this whole thing works and get the state legislature to get off their stupid butts and get our state in line with the rest of the country. At the end of the day, unless you just decide to never get on an airplane again (or enter any federal building), then you're going to have to do this. And no amount of pissing and moaning is going to change it.

[jerrywall]

Just a correction - The number of compliant states is 25 plus DC.

https://www.dhs.gov/current-status-states-territories

I don't have the number of fingers on one hand to count the non compliance and extension states.

There are 17 extension states not in compliance, 6 limited extension states not in compliance (or which Oklahoma is one), and 7 non compliance states with no extension. So still the majority. And the reason I think we'll keep seeing extensions.

[bombermwc]

I guess it depends on which government agency you look at the map for, because there are others out there that paint a VERY different picture. Not that it matters, because it's still not going to change no matter how much pissing and moaning people do.

[jerrywall]

I guess it depends on which government agency you look at the map for, because there are others out there that paint a VERY different picture.

I'd assume the DHS is the authority. Since it's their area.

[MitchellCole]

Meanwhile, Apple/Google/Microsoft/Amazon/Facebook/Twitter have been tracking everything everybody does for 10+ years. It is our reality. Nothing is private. Get over it.

[Thomas Vu]

Meanwhile, Apple/Google/Microsoft/Amazon/Facebook/Twitter have been tracking everything everybody does for 10+ years. It is our reality. Nothing is private. Get over it.

everything on the internet*

[TU 'cane]

Meanwhile, Apple/Google/Microsoft/Amazon/Facebook/Twitter have been tracking everything everybody does for 10+ years. It is our reality. Nothing is private. Get over it.

I don't participate in social media (yea, I'm one of those so called "weirdos"), so stuff like this matters to people like me.

And this is why I won't get into an argument regarding this subject (please don't confuse my opinions below as "fighting words").
Based upon this response and bombers, there's this idea of "oh well, you need to get over it and succumb to it regardless of what you believe or what is true. Everyone else is doing it."
You can say I'm wrong, that's fine. I'm only saying that this is, more or less, a form of national ID. This information is fed into something called "fusion centers" (they are real- there's one in Norman- and they funnel biometrics, etc. back, analyze, and then funnel further upstream as required to government entities). Because this the new America - we're all suspects to an extent. And I already responded to the notion that we'll all still have our own state IDs; they'll all have the same engine under the hood. So the paint job won't matter.

Call me an "uber-libertarian," or bring up the black helicopters (or mock like has already been done), whatever. I only want open discussions with this subject and want the real guise of why we "need" this. I can only imagine a number of the people who are pushing this were probably vehemently against the PATRIOT Act years ago (and this is a big reason why I can't take left-leaning people seriously anymore - they don't even fight or care for individual privacy like in the past). The worst things are sold to us under the premise of security.

An honest conversation is all we need, not condescension and mocking. As long as people are made aware, that's all I can do and say.