New State Fair Coliseum

[Laramie]

The trend for athletic venues are to move them to downtown areas. Nationally attendance at State Fairs is declining. This country is getting less rural with every passing year and the interest in FFA events just is not what it was 20 years ago. Yeah the monorail was fun the first time, but after that, meh. The cars were incredibly hot and stuffy and for what? Times are a changing and a big chunk of this land could be repurposed for something more beneficial than horse shows. I'm not suggesting eliminating the facilities for the ponies but repurposing the area outside of this. Nostalgia does not cut it.

That seems to be the case; however The Tulsa State Fair didn't get that memo.

Found this on the internet - The Biggest State Fairs in the United States: https://www.readers.com/blog/biggest-state-fairs/

Los Angeles has the largest county fair with 1.5 million annual visitors.

[bombermwc]

I use this example every time i talk about the Bennet Center and why its a failure. Right there in that picture above, you'll see Tulsa's Expo Square. Ever been in side? One think you'll notice is that there are NO COLUMNS! You know why? Because when you have columns, all you can host is trade shows. Expo Square can bring in dirt and bleachers and have arena-like activities. It's a true multi-function space. All those things we want to spend money on for a new arena COULD have been done in the Bennet Center, if we had built it correctly.

Maybe this is just a conspiracy theory, but it wouldn't surprise me if the fair board did that on purpose so they have more argument for "needing" a new arena.

And to be honest, the smaller spaces in the arena (related to cattle auctioning) have ZERO place at the fair and should be at a stockyard facility. If you want to do horse sales, head out to 29th/McArthur. There's a whole sprawling facility there. Why are we wasting space/money at the fairgrounds for that? The fairgrounds are NOT a stockyards. You wanna have an FFA show, ok fine great awesome. But do not ignore the other things that WANT to go there. And why are you wanting to force them out by trying to put in pay parking or raise rent rates so drastically? You can't fund improvements if you have no customers.

I'd like to take the fairgrounds and turn it into a city department. Bring in that open-meetings act and all that.

[Rover]

What events are we missing out on now because of issues stated on this thread?

[stile99]

What events are we missing out on now because of issues stated on this thread?

All the ones that used to be at the fairgrounds, but left?

We need to be honest with ourselves. The fairgrounds is basically for animal shows and an almost year-round gun and knife show. Anything else the fairgrounds seems actively hostile against, and aims to give more reason to go elsewhere than there.

[Rover]

All the ones that used to be at the fairgrounds, but left?

We need to be honest with ourselves. The fairgrounds is basically for animal shows and an almost year-round gun and knife show. Anything else the fairgrounds seems actively hostile against, and aims to give more reason to go elsewhere than there.

Which ones don’t happen there now because of the new expo, new policies, etc.? I assume the most obvious one is the dirt races. Other than that I guess I am unaware of events that have canceled or moved.

[stile99]

Which ones don’t happen there now because of the new expo, new policies, etc.? I assume the most obvious one is the dirt races. Other than that I guess I am unaware of events that have canceled or moved.

Depends how you define 'new policies'. I can name half a dozen that are no longer there because of increasing rates and/or the threat of charging for parking (which they pretty quickly backed down on, but damage had already been done). Are these 'new policies' or changes to old ones?

And of course there's the really amazingly obvious elephant in the room...when's the last time you were at a baseball game there?

[Rover]

I think having the ballpark downtown instead of fairgrounds is a good thing. Are you saying it should have stayed at the fairgrounds, or are you waxing nostalgic.

So, what are the events that cancelled? Still haven's seen any names of events.

[stile99]

I think having the ballpark downtown instead of fairgrounds is a good thing. Are you saying it should have stayed at the fairgrounds, or are you waxing nostalgic.

What have I said that even remotely implied this? You asked what events were no longer there, I answered. Other events that have left are Super!BitCon, Friends of the Library is actively looking for other venues, the wrestling event is still up in flux as far as I know (if anyone has more recent info, now would be a good time to chime in). How many concerts are there outside of the two weeks of the state fair? And if you're going to answer that with "there are better venues for that" again, isn't that pretty much the point?

Returning to the point I made (which nobody has refuted) is that the fairgrounds (which bills itself as the center of the horse show capital of the world) is wooing animal shows and gun/knife shows and rather little else. The same argument keeps going around and around, these horse shows bring so much money to the city, and yet apparently aren't self-sufficient. People are asking for more return on their money than horse shows and gun/knife shows, and quite rightly so.

[HOT ROD]

didn't the fairgrounds used to have a fair number of conventions as well? seems like growing up there was always something 'fun' or entertaining going on at the fairgrounds and I'm not talking about just horse shows.

[Rover]

What have I said that even remotely implied this? You asked what events were no longer there, I answered. Other events that have left are Super!BitCon, Friends of the Library is actively looking for other venues, the wrestling event is still up in flux as far as I know (if anyone has more recent info, now would be a good time to chime in). How many concerts are there outside of the two weeks of the state fair? And if you're going to answer that with "there are better venues for that" again, isn't that pretty much the point?

Returning to the point I made (which nobody has refuted) is that the fairgrounds (which bills itself as the center of the horse show capital of the world) is wooing animal shows and gun/knife shows and rather little else. The same argument keeps going around and around, these horse shows bring so much money to the city, and yet apparently aren't self-sufficient. People are asking for more return on their money than horse shows and gun/knife shows, and quite rightly so.

So, their calendar shows 13 events there this month with no horse shows on the list. There are two gun events. Seems like there is more going on than horse shows.

And, the arena has never been acoustically good for concerts. It did book them when there weren’t other places, but it isn’t state fair admin policies that keep them out.

[mugofbeer]

The money generated by horse shows generates some revenue for the faurgrounds but the vast majority of benefit is for the city, in general, through sales taxes, restaurant visits and hotel-motel taxes.

The issue at hand is that the park has lost most all the unique entertainment facilities such as the race track, the tower and the monorail which detract from the fairgrounds as a facility. The second issue is that Ft. Worth has built a "Taj Majal" arena specifically for agri and livestock shows. It is a major threat to take many of the shows away from IKC. If this happens, there will be little use for the fairgrounds at all. Nothing else but a few concert events happen at the arena other than the horse shows.

I agree, the books need to be opened on the operation of the fairgrounds. Very few government entities should be able to operate in a shadow.

[stile99]

So, their calendar shows 13 events there this month with no horse shows on the list. There are two gun events. Seems like there is more going on than horse shows.

And, the arena has never been acoustically good for concerts. It did book them when there weren’t other places, but it isn’t state fair admin policies that keep them out.

If you look again, keeping in mind I said animal shows (and you know this, as you quoted it), how many of the 13 events there are animal shows? But to address the no horse shows false claim, can anyone tell me what the NRHA Derby is? It seems like NRHA would stand for something, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Same with the OQHA Redbud spectacular, seems that's some sort of abbreviation. I wonder if clicking on the "more information" link might reveal...well, more information. Such as "A whirlwind of a horse show!”. It begs the question: when you "looked" were you just taking a quick glance to see if the word "horse" was followed by the word "show" in the event name?

Want to give that one another shot there? Let's look for the whole year. Other than September (I'll leave why as an exercise for the reader) there is not a single month this entire year with no horse show. That's just horse show, and I said animal show. Dogs and reptiles are animals.

[bombermwc]

Amen there stile99.

[Rover]

If you look again, keeping in mind I said animal shows (and you know this, as you quoted it), how many of the 13 events there are animal shows? But to address the no horse shows false claim, can anyone tell me what the NRHA Derby is? It seems like NRHA would stand for something, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Same with the OQHA Redbud spectacular, seems that's some sort of abbreviation. I wonder if clicking on the "more information" link might reveal...well, more information. Such as "A whirlwind of a horse show!”. It begs the question: when you "looked" were you just taking a quick glance to see if the word "horse" was followed by the word "show" in the event name?

Want to give that one another shot there? Let's look for the whole year. Other than September (I'll leave why as an exercise for the reader) there is not a single month this entire year with no horse show. That's just horse show, and I said animal show. Dogs and reptiles are animals.

Okay, so two animal shows out of 13 events this month. Lol. You got me there and thanks for entertaining with the snarky remark. Good job. I misread and counted as the NRA. Buts let’s disregard all the other things going on out there. Good spin.

[stile99]

Okay, so two animal shows out of 13 events this month.

OK, I think I see the issue. You're not looking at the State Fair Events page, which very clearly shows a reptile show this month, and two dog shows. Thanks for the clarification. For future reference, it's at this link

[d-usa]

I’m guessing that since the talk is about all the livestock buildings, the “animal” shows being considered as animal shows would be the ones utilizing the livestock buildings.

I don’t think reptiles or dogs will take up a lot of room in the barns.

[JesStang]

Two huge Affair of the Heart shows are there every year. The auto show is there also.

They didn’t want the Bennett center to be an arena, they wanted a huge convention center. Correct me if I’m wrong but OKC didn’t have one that big to utilize. Those little buildings around it definitely aren’t new so this will take their place nicely.

[Rover]

I’m guessing that since the talk is about all the livestock buildings, the “animal” shows being considered as animal shows would be the ones utilizing the livestock buildings.

I don’t think reptiles or dogs will take up a lot of room in the barns.

But anything goes to prove a point, doesn't it? LOL. The issue was too many horse shows and everything else being canceled out. So, dogs are sort of little horses. And reptiles... maybe horse owners also grow reptiles. Got it.

[Rover]

OK, I think I see the issue. You're not looking at the State Fair Events page, which very clearly shows a reptile show this month, and two dog shows. Thanks for the clarification. For future reference, it's at this link

Thank you for directing me to the page I used for this month's schedule. It is nice to confirm I was at the right site.

[stile99]

Thank you for directing me to the page I used for this month's schedule. It is nice to confirm I was at the right site.

Oh, you're most welcome. As you first claimed there were no horse shows, then there were no animal shows, I'm quite sure you can see the room for confusion. So we're agreed then, we've gone from your 0/13 to half animal and gun/knife shows.

...I'm sorry, what was your point again? I fear it got lost in all the false claims.

[d-usa]

Point: there are plenty of non-livestock shows despite the claims that all the non-livestock shows have abandoned the fairgrounds?

[TheTravellers]

If you look again, keeping in mind I said animal shows (and you know this, as you quoted it), how many of the 13 events there are animal shows? But to address the no horse shows false claim, can anyone tell me what the NRHA Derby is? It seems like NRHA would stand for something, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Same with the OQHA Redbud spectacular, seems that's some sort of abbreviation. I wonder if clicking on the "more information" link might reveal...well, more information. Such as "A whirlwind of a horse show!”. It begs the question: when you "looked" were you just taking a quick glance to see if the word "horse" was followed by the word "show" in the event name?

Want to give that one another shot there? Let's look for the whole year. Other than September (I'll leave why as an exercise for the reader) there is not a single month this entire year with no horse show. That's just horse show, and I said animal show. Dogs and reptiles are animals.

NRHA is the National Reining Horse Association, their HQ is down on Reno between May and Portland, it's on my way to work.

[Rover]

Oh, you're most welcome. As you first claimed there were no horse shows, then there were no animal shows, I'm quite sure you can see the room for confusion. So we're agreed then, we've gone from your 0/13 to half animal and gun/knife shows.

...I'm sorry, what was your point again? I fear it got lost in all the false claims.

WOW. There was a horse show in June. The fairgrounds is going to heck. This is the stupidest debate I've been involved in in quite some time. Shame on me. RME

The rest of us will continue to attend other events (that apparently don't exist) on the fairgrounds while I guess others will resent there are horse events. Sorry .... ANIMAL events (sorry for not including reptiles and dogs).

[bombermwc]

Two huge Affair of the Heart shows are there every year. The auto show is there also.

They didn’t want the Bennett center to be an arena, they wanted a huge convention center. Correct me if I’m wrong but OKC didn’t have one that big to utilize. Those little buildings around it definitely aren’t new so this will take their place nicely.

My question is why limit yourself? If you can (quite easily really) have a beam instead of a column, why not do it? They still have to run power lines all over creation in the Bennett, so its really nothing other than room structure changes. And quite frankly, it would be a pitched roof instead of flat like it is now. Cause flat roofs never leak or take more work to maintain (sarcasm). Yes it would have been more expensive to do it this way, but it would have made the building capable of so much more than it can be now.

Right now all it can do is hold convention activities (think curtain dividers and folding tables). But it COULD have held a lot more. Plop a stage in there (without obstructed views) for less fancy conventions that need a large space but dont want to pay for the price of the new CC. For that im thinking things like a ComicCon, SciFi, Gaming, etc. we USED To have those at the fairgrounds. We do still have the Cox Pavillion that can do some of that, so i'll grant that. But the SIZE of the Bennett having so much under one room was supposed to be sold as an Exposition Center. That's the name of the class of building they were pitching. But EXPO centers are more versatile....and dont have columns. Again, look to Expo Square in Tulsa and what it's capable of doing that the Bennett never will.

I probably wont ever walk in there and think anything other than what it COULD have been with just a little more effort. You'll never get the view from the Bennett, you get from Expo (and it chaps my butt Tulsa has it and we dont).

[Laramie]

Well we've got 435 acres there, if the event fits the Bennett Center, great. If it requires the new convention center or larger arena downtown we're equipped to handle most anything that brings out-of-state money into our community which spurs a need for more hotels.

The more hotel space we have available then OKC can bid for the larger and more reputable events. Our location & facilities are our greatest assets.

When we opened the Myriad Convention Center November 1973 we didn't have any decent hotels downtown. The old 619 room Biltmore Hotel (Hotel Oklahoma) closed its doors June 1973, Hotel Oklahoma was obsolete, at the time it would have had to be totally gutted inside and rebuilt. It was later imploded October '77.

OKC now has options to attract trade shows and large gatherings. We have downtown hotels and the Meridian Hotel Corridor to satisfy the fairgrounds.

The big question; what type of arena will be needed to cater to the horse & various trade shows that frequent the fairgrounds & what portions do the State Fair Trust & City finance to anchor these events long-term. Fort Worth willing to invest $540 million (city's contribution is capped at $225 million) into a facility capable of handling horse shows, trade shows, basketball & ice hockey.

Fort Worth's aggressive strategic move means they are armed to go after these events long-term. The new Dickies Arena cost $120 million more than the $420 million Dallas' American Airlines Center. Once these events leave OKC like the NFR, you will never see them again.