Oklahoma City, Big League City . . .

[Pete]

^

Soonermike81, you are getting far too personal here.

It's fine to disagree but focus on debating the points/opinion, not the person.

[PhiAlpha]

So we have local media ripping him and national media ripping him, but none of our fans were??? Well being that fans are usually completely swayed by the media's views, I'd say our fans had to have been overly critical at some point. I already pointed out that I understand other major cities can be/are much tougher on their stars, so my lack of perspective isn't an issue. Its plain and simple, a ton of our fan base was ripping him apart for years until he showed us what he can do without KD. You can continue to be naive to it or be in denial or whatever, it doesn't change the fact that it was happening.

I don't post on here too much, but I love to read OKCTalk bc I love learning about all the great things going on in our city. When I do occassionally chime in and am adamant about something, it's only because I have a strong opinion or knowledge about a topic, which is pretty rare. I don't know squat about construction, urban planning, etc. But regarding this, there's no way you'll change my mind.

I think I'm noticing a trend. One thing I have seen from reading over the years is that when you have a strong viewpoint, you won't it let it go even if you could be in the wrong. I notice that you're constantly going to bat for O&G on many different occasions. I can't point out specific examples but you always seem to a proponent of all things energy in all those discussions. Nothing wrong with that bc I think I saw that you're in the industry. On top of drinking the kool-aid, you never bite the hand that feeds you, I get it. But then, I also recollect the whole SAE discussion that was going on a couple of years ago. You were defending/denying so much that it seemed like you were doing damage control for what was a systemic issue in your frat. But then, as time went along, I started to realize that it was probably more denial/naivety on your part. Just hoping/wishing that something like that couldn't possibly happen to an organization that you identify with. And it sounds like you're a pretty young guy. Intelligent/knowledgable but young. So, in my opinion, this is just another issue (albeit an extremely unimportant one) where either you've been extremely naive, or you're in denial bc you don't want to believe that the fans of our beloved Thunder would treat our current star a certain way. Well, it happened, trust me. Just realize that not everything has to be perfect. As you get older, you'll become much more cynical like me.

Wow, I hope you didn't waste too much time typing that.

On both SAE and the energy industry, you can read into my comments how ever you would like. I was on the unpopular side of both of those topics on this board, gave my opinions based on what I knew, and basically was attacked for my opinions on them. I also happen to have far more knowledge and direct experience on both of those topics than most of the posters here that were making uneducated and in some cases inflammatory comments on them (especially during the outrage period after the SAE incident). Most of the posters had made up their minds about those topics before making their comments and we're just as outspoken/set in their opinions as I was in mine... I was just on the side that most people (apparently yourself included) disagreed with. I also don't remember any of them letting go of their opinions of things when they might have been wrong and in many cases were wrong.

Back to the topic at hand, you're making this way too personal. While there was criticism of Westbrook here throughout his career, I don't think it was as widespread as you think it was and more importantly don't think it was so bad that it would be a reason for him wanting to leave OKC. I also think he realizes that the criticism would have been much worse in a larger market.

[soonermike81]

^

Soonermike81, you are getting far too personal here.

It's fine to disagree but focus on debating the points/opinion, not the person.

Sorry, Pete and PhiAlpha

[soonermike81]

Wow, I hope you didn't waste too much time typing that.

On both SAE and the energy industry, you can read into my comments how ever you would like. I was on the unpopular side of both of those topics on this board, gave my opinions based on what I knew, and basically was attacked for my opinions on them. I also happen to have far more knowledge and direct experience on both of those topics than most of the posters here that were making uneducated and in some cases inflammatory comments on them (especially during the outrage period after the SAE incident). Most of the posters had made up their minds about those topics before making their comments and we're just as outspoken/set in their opinions as I was in mine... I was just on the side that most people (apparently yourself included) disagreed with. I also don't remember any of them letting go of their opinions of things when they might have been wrong and in many cases were wrong.

Back to the topic at hand, you're making this way too personal. While there was criticism of Westbrook here throughout his career, I don't think it was as widespread as you think it was and more importantly don't think it was so bad that it would be a reason for him wanting to leave OKC. I also think he realizes that the criticism would have been much worse in a larger market.

Here's a better article.

http://newsok.com/criticism-of-russe...stom_click=rss

I can cut and paste articles all day if you want me to, but it's not necessary. Just google it and you can see how widespread it was and how far it goes back. Then you can also see the BR article that I posted that backs up exactly what I've been saying. That he received a lot of unwarranted criticism until he led the team in '14-15 when KD was absent. And to think that it was only local and national media criticizing.... well, I don't really know how you can logically make the case that fans didn't criticize. And my argument was that I can understand if he leaves and don't blame him, as our fans weren't loyal to him up till recently. I didn't say that's the sole reason he would leave. Players leave teams for many reasons, and I can see that being one of his reasons when making a "pros and cons" list on whether to stay or go. And I'll be done, never meant to get at you like I did.

Also, I'm very pro-energy. My wife has been with a major for 10 years.

[Laramie]

Westbrook IMO took a heap of criticism from the media. Now, K. D. hints that Westbrook was the problem all along. Yes, we understand that; he did wait until he cut ties with the organization to express his true feelings:

"If you work for a man, then by all means, work for him. If he pays you wages which supply your bread and butter, speak well of him; stand by him and the institution he represents. If put to a pinch, an ounce of loyalty is worth a pound of cleverness.

If you must vilify, condemn and eternally disparage – resign your position, and when you are outside, damn to your hearts content. But as long as you are part of the institution, do not condemn it.

IF you do that , you are loosening the tendrils that are holding you to the institution, and by the first high wind that comes along, you will be uprooted and blown away, and probably will never know why."

--Elbert Hubbard

Let's not condemn Westbrook based on Kevin Durant's recent decision.

[Urbanized]

There is no way you can trade Russ at the deadline. Who would go for that trade without the assurance of him signing THERE in July? It's this summer or wait until free agency. A lot of people already think it will be hard to move him for this whole season, now you're suggesting partial season? We would get nothing out of that.

Yup. I still think he's either extended (probably for a year or two) or traded before the season starts. It's the only way to get real value for him. I just hope like hell that it's the former. Our best chance is that Russ took the KD abandonment REALLY personally.

[Pete]

The Thunder have to either get a commitment from Westrbrook or trade him.

There is simply no way we can wait until the end of the next season and run the risk of losing two superstars within a year with absolutely nothing to show for it. It would likely devastate the franchise.

Also, it's impossible to rebuild the team until we know what he's going to do.

I suspect Presti will move heaven and earth to re-sign him ASAP and if that can't be accomplished, he has no choice to trade Russ while there is still some value there.

[catch22]

Russ may WANT to stay. I hope his circle points out that this is his opportunity to be the hero to OKC and and a villain to Curry and company. He will be the main star of our team. I hope he recognizes this opportunity.

[gopokes88]

Since we're talking Westbrook extending.

http://thefranchiseok.com/new-salary...ith-westbrook/

(Jon Hamm is a brilliant NBA salary cap guy. It will probably be a degree offered one day, it's very complex.)

And this tweet.

https://twitter.com/marniefernandez/...28941334573057

[betts]

Russ has been a pretty big fan favorite all along. I do believe there was a big disconnect between what the media and the fans as a whole thought. I'll never forget one night in the fall (cannot for the life of me remember what year). Russ had had a terrible string of games with awful shooting. That night was no better. Towards the end of the game, IIRC, he went to the free throw line. He'd been missing free throws too. People started chanting his name and before long the whole arena was. It gave me goosebumps. I remember him commenting about how much that meant to him. And I've heard him say, "Best fans in all of sports" multiple times. He know he's loved here. Doesn't mean he'll stay, but if he doesn't, I do not believe the fans have anything to do with it.

His is the only jersey I've ever owned. I'm not in the habit of wearing them, but one night first season a man behind me said, "I like your shirt." I turned around and the man told me he was Russell's dad.

[zookeeper]

Russ has been a pretty big fan favorite all along. I do believe there was a big disconnect between what the media and the fans as a whole thought. I'll never forget one night in the fall (cannot for the life of me remember what year). Russ had had a terrible string of games with awful shooting. That night was no better. Towards the end of the game, IIRC, he went to the free throw line. He'd been missing free throws too. People started chanting his name and before long the whole arena was. It gave me goosebumps. I remember him commenting about how much that meant to him. And I've heard him say, "Best fans in all of sports" multiple times. He know he's loved here. Doesn't mean he'll stay, but if he doesn't, I do not believe the fans have anything to do with it.

His is the only jersey I've ever owned. I'm not in the habit of wearing them, but one night first season a man behind me said, "I like your shirt." I turned around and the man told me he was Russell's dad.

Great stories! Thanks for sharing.

[Urbanized]

During the very first Thunder game at the (then) Ford Center, I shouted "PUT IN WESTBROOK!!" at the top of my lungs (apologies to Earl Watson). I picked a point when it was quiet enough that I got looks from the bench. I've been on the Russ train ever since. Five years ago - tired of the Skip Baylesses of the world - I tweeted at him something to the effect of "eff the haters, do what you do."

Even when he was at his most raw and prone to making bad decisions, anyone who actually WATCHED Thunder games (as opposed to highlights) understood that his style of play actually created opportunities for his teammates that they just weren't capable of capitalizing upon. Including the tall guy out standing like a statue beyond the arc, waving his hand and pouting.

And I have met precious few fans here in OKC who didn't also mostly appreciate his game and what he was dealing with as far as teammates who couldn't score and/or wouldn't move without the ball. Anyone who knew the game, anyway.

That tweet about Russ and the kid encourages me a tiny bit, because during all of that time I have rarely heard/seen Russ promising things or saying what people WANT him to say. I've always felt in the back of my mind that KD was at least a LITTLE BIT insincere; I have NEVER seen insincerity in Russ. The dude is WYSIWYG.

Here's hoping.

[OSUMom]

I've thought some of Westbrook's critics were a bit harsh on him, but I would also bet if you asked him, he would admit that back several years ago they were right in some respects. He has improved massively in the last few years. And I think he will continue to get better and better. My only fear is that with his wild style of play, he could get hurt. Throughout most of this last year most people thought KD would stay and Westbrook would leave. And I thought to myself numerous times, if we only get to keep one, maybe Westbrook might be the better one. Of course BOTH would have been the best outcome. But as Westbrook gets better, he makes his teammates better.

[OkieHornet]

durant also said at a season ticket member party a few years back (in front of a few thousand fans) that he would retire a thunder when asked by a kid.

technically he still could, but maybe we should just take what players say with a grain of salt...

[Bellaboo]

He also stated at the Fan Appreciation day last year that his blood was Thunder Blue, and not to fear he was committed for life. I guess Jay-Z and Nike pushed a little harder after that.

[Urbanized]

Again, - as was pointed out in stories after he left - I think KD was prone to saying things that people want to hear, and honestly always thought him slightly insincere, though it might not even have been on purpose. I think KD wants just a little bit too much for people to like him, and that led to him being somewhat easily manipulated by people around him with self-interest.

Russell, on the other hand has never been much for platitudes, empty promises, etc.; he's mostly just kept his mouth shut and did his talking with the basketball. Mostly he just DGAF. If he was truly going out of his way to say those things at that camp, it gives me a sliver of hope that he actually means it, at least at this point. Which of course is not to say that things can't/won't change.

[Urbanized]

He also stated at the Fan Appreciation day last year that his blood was Thunder Blue, and not to fear he was committed for life. I guess Jay-Z and Nike pushed a little harder after that.

I've been reading/researching a lot on this topic since KD left. I started a long post with a post-mortem on his departure, but decided not to post it. We're all probably pretty tired of the KD2GSW talk at this point anyway. That said, I found this article from a couple of years ago - that I had previously missed - to be pretty fascinating and maybe a foreshadow of things to come with the Roc Nation representation: http://uproxx.com/dimemag/report-dur...nation-sports/

[Urbanized]

Here is the complete article from Sheridan Hoops that is referenced in that Uproxx article. Keep in mind that this is from two years ago, and yet much of the criticism sounds eerily familiar to the KD2GSW criticism he's getting now. The difference is that KD's image and reputation in 2014 was so unassailable that the national media treated him with kid gloves. And, as we know, OKC media has always given him a pass...on EVERYTHING. So this is commentary that many of us never saw. Seriously, take a few minutes to read this; it's a little bit startling if you have been a KD fan up to this point: http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/08...ting-team-usa/

[Pete]

^

Wow.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^
If you find that one interesting, try on this article from Bay Area media from a few days ago: Enjoy this delicious Kevin Durant-Nike conspiracy theory

[Urbanized]

Or maybe this one about the connection between Wanda Durant, her Lifetime movie, the production company behind it (Mandalay), which is owned by one of the owners of the Warriors, Peter Guber. Or Guber's connection to Jay-Z and Roc Nation though another company he partnered with, CAA: The Real Reason Kevin Durant Joined the Warriors - It has to do with Queen Latifah

...In 2012, Guber partnered with Creative Artists Agency’s sports arm to launch Mandalay Sports Media. The production company that sped The Real MVP from principal photography in February to basic cable in May is Flavor Unit Entertainment, which was founded by rapper and actress Queen Latifah in 1989. Latifah has been a CAA client since 2013. Hmm. KD is repped by Jay Z’s Roc Nation Sports; Roc Nation partnered with CAA from 2013 to 2015...

Don't let my pulled quote dissuade you from reading the entire article, which is truly...illuminating.

[Urbanized]

Seriously - all talk of "basketball reasons" and "small market vs big market" and "family atmosphere" and "rings" and Westbrook aside, the move was 1000% about... ...shoes. Curious that they became a major topic of conversation for his introductory news conference, where he described himself as "not a[n] $88 player." Nike - KD's REAL employer - was staring down multiple years where the likely championship-winning team was fronted by a guy wearing Under Armour, who has been kicking their ass in market share growth percentage. Here's an article on this from just last month, called "What the Hell has Happened to Nike Basketball?"

The number two guy on the team? Until KD joined, it was Klay Thompson, who wears a Chinese shoe nobody has ever heard of (Anta). The face of Nike on that team? Draymond "Nutkicker" Green, who just this weekend was arrested in Michigan for slapping/assaulting a jeering fan in a bar.

By the way, KD9s were on the shelves last week in Golden State colors, something I have been told usually takes 12 weeks from decision point through production, shipping and distribution. Meaning if true, SOMEBODY knew this was happening, at least 13 weeks ago.

Nike played the percentages, worked with Roc Nation to convince KD to move (and his representation and others also influenced his family and inner circle), and they created a situation where at least there would be a well-liked Nike star on the stage when Curry was accepting his trophy. And by slow-playing the Thunder they kept them from getting a worthy free agent, thereby weakening a likely competitor. It is all very Machiavellian, which is straight-up from the Jay-Z playbook. To put it bluntly, KD was/is a puppet who is desperate to be liked. I still think he is a decent guy; I just think he is too easily influenced by people with blatant self-interest.

The two things that set all of this in motion, IMO?

1. KD signs with Roc Nation
2. Nike blows their pitch to Curry

If neither (or perhaps only one) of these things happens, things might have turned out different. Honestly, as bad as I feel for us as fans, I feel a tiny bit sad for KD. Except...eff that dude.

[Urbanized]

OK, I guess I made that postmortem post after all. I'm out.

[Urbanized]

OK, just one more thing: if you believe any of this, it HAS TO make you consider KD's terrible performance late in game 6 of the WCF in a different light. I'm not saying he threw it; I honestly can't believe that is the case. But if he already KNEW he was going to GSW, it had to be a major distraction to him and weighing on his mind heavily. If OKC wins that series - or even an NBA championship, which was a real possibility at that point - it makes a predetermined Golden State relocation very, very, VERY messy.

[warreng88]

^^^^^ Mind. Blown...