NW 23rd St - New Speed Limit

[Brett]

Noticed today traveling on NW 23rd St from Broadway until Classen Blvd that the new speed limit is now 25 mph. Kind of makes the 25mph school zone for Dove Science Academy a bit redundant.

[PhiAlpha]

Noticed today traveling on NW 23rd St from Broadway until Classen Blvd that the new speed limit is now 25 mph. Kind of makes the 25mph school zone for Dove Science Academy a bit redundant.

Good news there. 23rd St. was scary to cross or park on at times when the speed limit was 35 (because of course people go 10 over it). Hopefully this makes Uptown a little more pedestrian friendly.

[Plutonic Panda]

25 is way too low. :/

[CarlessInOKC]

25 is way too low. :/

Definitely not when we're talking about a district where people are trying to safely walk along and cross the street. The link below illustrates this pretty well.


https://www.propublica.org/article/u...at-many-speeds

[kevinpate]

Funny, I was thinking 25 might still be a tad high for an active pedestrian area.

[no1cub17]

25 is way too low. :/

Then go drive somewhere else.

[LakeEffect]

Funny, I was thinking 25 might still be a tad high for an active pedestrian area.

The applicant originally requested 20 mph, but settled for 25. The Traffic Commission vote was 5-4 in favor, if I recall correctly. Wards 1, 3, 7 voted against; I can't recall who else voted no.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I'm glad they put new signs that say "NEW SPEED LIMIT" I was on there the other night and was about to go my usual 30.

I think 25 is fine. It is usually so busy that I never actually got to 35 anyway. Most people I saw go that were swerving around cars. A good idea for this area as walkability increases.

[MagzOK]

Then go drive somewhere else.

25 MPH is too slow. It is a street. As long as pedestrians use a crosswalk and walk where they're supposed to then all would be fine. But it is what it is.

[AP]

25 MPH is too slow. It is a street. As long as pedestrians use a crosswalk and walk where they're supposed to then all would be fine. But it is what it is.

If that is the case, why aren't neighborhood streets over 25? Just a street. Stay out of the car's way.

[MagzOK]

If that is the case, why aren't neighborhood streets over 25? Just a street. Stay out of the car's way.

Most neighborhood streets aren't four-laned with a median. And those crosswalks along NW 23rd aren't there just for looks. They're there to protect pedestrians.

[dankrutka]

25 MPH is too slow. It is a street. As long as pedestrians use a crosswalk and walk where they're supposed to then all would be fine. But it is what it is.

Evidence indicates that car speed makes a dramatic difference in whether a pedestrian survives being hit by a car. There's a huge difference between 35 and 25 mph in the survival rate. If there are going to be more pedestrians in the area then they must make sure cars are moving slower.

Of course, in addition to lowering the speed limit, changing the streetscape -- skinnier lanes, more crosswalks, other visual cues to drivers to slow down -- is even more effective. This whole stretch of 23rd street needs to be slowed significantly as there will be more and more pedestrians in the future. The crosswalk by Tower Theatre is a great start too.

[MagzOK]

Evidence indicates that car speed makes a dramatic difference in whether a pedestrian survives being hit by a car. There's a huge difference between 35 and 25 mph in the survival rate. If there are going to be more pedestrians in the area then they must make sure cars are moving slower.

Of course, in addition to lowering the speed limit, changing the streetscape -- skinnier lanes, more crosswalks, other visual cues to drivers to slow down -- is even more effective. This whole stretch of 23rd street needs to be slowed significantly as there will be more and more pedestrians in the future. The crosswalk by Tower Theatre is a great addition.

I was all-in for making that stretch two-lane and turning one of the lanes in each direction into a pedestrian/bicycle lane. But oh well.

[Roger S]

25 MPH is too slow. It is a street. As long as pedestrians use a crosswalk and walk where they're supposed to then all would be fine. But it is what it is.

And if people didn't break the current speed limit, swerve through traffic, make lane changes without using their signals, and watch out for pedestrians in general instead of treating our streets like their own personal race car tracks.... There probably wouldn't be a problem with the current speed limit either..... but they do.

[dankrutka]

I was all-in for making that stretch two-lane and turning one of the lanes in each direction into a pedestrian/bicycle lane. But oh well.

I'm not sure what the car counts are on 23rd, but I'd love to see it go to one lane with protected bike lanes and improved sidewalks. That's the dream.

One lane can handle about 10,000 cars per day, right? I think I remember hearing that, but I could be off.

[sooner88]

I think people are used to using 23rd as a quick crosstown. I think this is a good first step, along with the Tower Theatre midblock crosswalk, in moving to a more pedestrian friendly section.

[no1cub17]

I'm not sure what the car counts are on 23rd, but I'd love to see it go to one lane with protected bike lanes and improved sidewalks. That's the dream.

One lane can handle about 10,000 cars per day, right? I think I remember hearing that, but I could be off.

That would be amazing! Would love to see that. Broadway can also go down to two lanes as it gets more filled in. Would love to have bike paths and wider sidewalks there too.

[Urbanized]

The best option is to lose the median, widen sidewalks, protected bike lane(s), and bring the auto lanes down to ONE LANE in each direction(!!!), but with a center turn lane. On 23rd most of the congestion revolves around left turns onto side streets. And most of the weaving/darting/speeding is by people trying to avoid congestion they spot up ahead. It might sound counter-intuitive, but a single lane in each direction with a turn lane can usually carry more traffic - more efficiently and safely - than a four-lane street with no turn lane and lots of side streets.

You can read about such a road diet here, straight from the Federal Highway Administration: http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/road_diets/

A classic Road Diet typically involves converting an existing four-lane, undivided roadway segment to a three-lane segment consisting of two through lanes and a center, two-way left-turn lane.

The resulting benefits include a crash reduction of 19 to 47 percent, reduced vehicle speed differential, improved mobility and access by all road users, and integration of the roadway into surrounding uses that results in an enhanced quality of life. A key feature of a Road Diet is that it allows reclaimed space to be allocated for other uses, such as turn lanes, bus lanes, pedestrian refuge islands, bike lanes, sidewalks, bus shelters, parking or landscaping.

Why consider a Road Diet? Four-lane undivided highways experience relatively high crash frequencies — especially as traffic volumes and turning movements increase over time — resulting in conflicts between high-speed through traffic, left-turning vehicles and other road users. FHWA has deemed Road Diets a proven safety countermeasure and promotes them as a safety-focused design alternative to a traditional four-lane, undivided roadway. Road Diet-related crash modification factors are also available for use in safety countermeasure benefit-cost analysis.

[Plutonic Panda]

Definitely not when we're talking about a district where people are trying to safely walk along and cross the street. The link below illustrates this pretty well.


https://www.propublica.org/article/u...at-many-speeds

I've seen that graph. 25 is still too low. Even here in LA in very walkable districts, we manage to get by with 30-35. 35 was a good speed limit. I would not have said anything if they lowered it to 30, but 25? Come on.

OKC in general has some of lowest speed limits on major roads I've ever seen.

[Plutonic Panda]

If that is the case, why aren't neighborhood streets over 25? Just a street. Stay out of the car's way.

25 is a good area for a street. I don't even mind 20 for neighborhood streets. Granted I will admit I don't pay attention to the speed limits anyways. OKC just has small town mentality. I'm not saying that to be argumentative, it's just what I notice.

Any solution is the easiest, right? Just lower the speed limits. Because they will actually work. How about redesigning the street? Adding mid section crosswalks?

All this will cause is more people to swerve around cars. I will be very interested in seeing accident rates in this area and how this affects it.

[Plutonic Panda]

And if people didn't break the current speed limit, swerve through traffic, make lane changes without using their signals, and watch out for pedestrians in general instead of treating our streets like their own personal race car tracks.... There probably wouldn't be a problem with the current speed limit either..... but they do.

So that is how you view speed limits? Just something everyone will do 10 over on? So if someone wants to follow the law, they have to go unreasonably slow because people such as yourself think everyone else is going to do 10 over?

[Plutonic Panda]

Evidence indicates that car speed makes a dramatic difference in whether a pedestrian survives being hit by a car. There's a huge difference between 35 and 25 mph in the survival rate. If there are going to be more pedestrians in the area then they must make sure cars are moving slower.

So why isn't every street 25MPH then?

[jompster]

So why isn't every street 25MPH then?

Maybe because there will be an increase of pedestrians in the area? Dankrutka's third sentence in that paragraph...

[dankrutka]

So why isn't every street 25MPH then?

They should be... for you. Congress should pass a federal law that requires Plutonic Panda to drive 25 mph on all streets and highways. And maybe the UN could get countries around the world to adopt it also. Have fun driving 25 mph on the Autobahn.

Seriously though, we have a perception problem. When a car runs over pedestrian we just call it an accident. We don't consider that we created dangerous conditions that made the accident -- or death -- more likely to occur. We had this same problem with car design and seatbelts before Ralph Nader wrote Unsafe at Any Speed in 1965. We need to change how we view pedestrian safety and car culture in this country. Fortunately, it's slowly starting to happen.

[Plutonic Panda]

They should be... for you. Congress should pass a federal law that requires Plutonic Panda to drive 25 mph on all streets and highways. And maybe the UN could get countries around the world to adopt it also. Have fun driving 25 mph on the Autobahn.

Seriously though, we have a perception problem. When a car runs over pedestrian we just call it an accident. We don't consider that we created dangerous conditions that made the accident -- or death -- more likely to occur. We had this same problem with car design and seatbelts before Ralph Nader wrote Unsafe at Any Speed in 1965. We need to change how we view pedestrian safety and car culture in this country. Fortunately, it's slowly starting to happen.

noooooooo!!!! ha but I've never driven the autobahn before that's no fair.

We need better protection for pedestrians, but a sign with some reflective material is a cop out. Literally too for the police to make more money. People won't slow down. The whole road needs to be redesigned if people want speeds that low.