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  1. Default Re: New license plates on the way

    I think the opposition to this on this forum is not because it's a fee/tax (there is probably some opposition to that in Oklahoma, but it's $4 so most people don't really care), it's that it's questionable whether or not it's necessary. The oldest license plate in use is only 7 years old. Engineer-grade reflective sheeting, which our license plates use, does not degrade that quickly; road signs use the same stuff and they're usually replaced on 10–20 year cycles (though they are now required to upgrade to more expensive but more reflective prismatic sheeting when replaced). There is the issue of people with damaged plates, like people who have bashed them up with trailer hitches and such, but that could be addressed by laws requiring them to be replaced when damaged.

    More to the point, this comes not too long after a legislator proposed a bill to require license plates in front and back of the car. This is a requirement that is very heavily pushed by 3M, which maintains a website advocating for the practice. 3M is heavily involved in the manufacture of license plates, producing reflective sheeting and typesetting systems for them. On the consumer side, they also make front license plate brackets and double sided tape to adhere license plates to bumpers. To me, both of these bills being pushed so close to one another makes me wonder if 3M sent a lobbyist down to Oklahoma City.

  2. #27

    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott5114 View Post
    I think the opposition to this on this forum is not because it's a fee/tax (there is probably some opposition to that in Oklahoma, but it's $4 so most people don't really care), it's that it's questionable whether or not it's necessary. The oldest license plate in use is only 7 years old. Engineer-grade reflective sheeting, which our license plates use, does not degrade that quickly; road signs use the same stuff and they're usually replaced on 10–20 year cycles (though they are now required to upgrade to more expensive but more reflective prismatic sheeting when replaced). There is the issue of people with damaged plates, like people who have bashed them up with trailer hitches and such, but that could be addressed by laws requiring them to be replaced when damaged.

    More to the point, this comes not too long after a legislator proposed a bill to require license plates in front and back of the car. This is a requirement that is very heavily pushed by 3M, which maintains a website advocating for the practice. 3M is heavily involved in the manufacture of license plates, producing reflective sheeting and typesetting systems for them. On the consumer side, they also make front license plate brackets and double sided tape to adhere license plates to bumpers. To me, both of these bills being pushed so close to one another makes me wonder if 3M sent a lobbyist down to Oklahoma City.
    Bingo! Its just a way to raise some money for the state without needing 75% of Reps and Sens to vote on it. Its completely unnecessary and Im not buying the public safety arguments. Because if I got a new plate this year, why would I need another one already? Its just a way to help shore up this giant shortfall without calling it a tax increase.

  3. Default Re: New license plates on the way

    I'm not even sure if it would get Oklahoma any revenue. $4 sounds about right for the cost of a license plate. I think I remember reading that the average road sign is about $20 to make or so. Scale that down to the size of a plate, add administrative labor costs, and $4 is ballpark what it would cost. So really the only one that would benefit financially would be 3M.

  4. Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott5114 View Post
    I'm not even sure if it would get Oklahoma any revenue. $4 sounds about right for the cost of a license plate. I think I remember reading that the average road sign is about $20 to make or so. Scale that down to the size of a plate, add administrative labor costs, and $4 is ballpark what it would cost. So really the only one that would benefit financially would be 3M.
    Scott,
    Actually, there is quite a bit of "revenue", I believe the paper said the tag costs $1.00 and the rest would go into the general revenue pot. I might be wrong on the amount, but I do know that the majority of the cost goes to the general fund. I will search the DOK archives and if I find the article, I will post the information.
    C. T.

  5. Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Bingo! Its just a way to raise some money for the state without needing 75% of Reps and Sens to vote on it. Its completely unnecessary and Im not buying the public safety arguments. Because if I got a new plate this year, why would I need another one already? Its just a way to help shore up this giant shortfall without calling it a tax increase.
    I have two "FBC" vanity tags and my regular tag has never seen a drop of rain, a snow flake or experienced any weather including the heat of the sun because it is in the pocket on the back of my passenger seat and I'm going to have to replace it. I don't have any suggestions, but maybe they could look at our tags to decide if replacement was necessary. Of course, since this is a revenue issue, they don't care if I have a perfectly spotless tag, they just want the money. And I wonder if I am going to have to pay for three tags for my one car.
    C. T.

  6. Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Well, 20 percent of the fee will be for the tag and 80 percent will go into the state public safety fund.
    C. T.

    Oklahoma motorists would be required to purchase new metal license plates next fiscal year at a cost of $5 each under a bill approved Monday by the state House of Representatives.

    House Minority Leader Scott Inman, D-Oklahoma City, ripped Republicans for carrying the bill, calling it a “backdoor” tax increase.

    “If you think it’s anything other than a tax, you’re fooling yourselves” Inman said.

    Rep. Charles McCall, R-Atoka, defended the bill, calling it a “public safety measure ”

    McCall said the reflective material used on license plates wears off over time, making them more difficult for law enforcement officers to read.

    McCall said it is also difficult for law enforcement officers to see the small stickers placed on license tags annually when registrations are renewed, which makes it harder for them to identify unregistered vehicles and uninsured motorists.

    House Bill 3208, which passed 52-45, must still be approved by the Senate and governor before it could become law.

    The state expects to raise about $18.5 million through the sale of new tags, lawmakers said. The bill calls for 20 percent of the money to go into an Oklahoma Tax Commission fund to pay for the new tags, while the remaining 80 percent would go into a State Public Safety Fund to be appropriated by the Legislature.

    “That is a tax ” said state Rep. David Perryman, D-Chickasha. “For this body to be disingenuous — for this body to be dishonest — and call this a fee for the issuance of new tags is something I can’t hold my head up when I go home and say that. This is a tax ”

    McCall disagreed, calling it a fee.

    Data from 2012 showed that 25.9 percent of Oklahoma motorists were uninsured, he said.

    Changing the design on license plates makes it easier to detect if a vehicle is unregistered, he said.

    The state Corrections Department would manufacture the new tags, but the design has not yet been determined, he said.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    This is typical hypocracy from the tea partiers. Just call it what it is....a one time tax so they can maintain the lower income tax rate and breaks for their buddies in the oil business. They think the public is stupid and can't tell the difference in a fee or a tax, regardless of what it is called. This is typical. The tea party uses ignorant state representatives to do their bidding.

  8. #33

    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    I mean, everyone says they're willing to pay more for education. Did they just mean other people?

    A stupid law was passed when I was a kid, making new taxes or tax increases very hard. And the opposition party had been clear they'll oppose increases to score points. So if it takes defining them as fees to close the revenue gap some, so be it.

  9. #34

    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Based on the numbers I just looked up, don't the republicans hold a 83% majority in one house and a 70% in the other? Why does it matter if the opposition party opposes anything? They're numerically irrelevant.

  10. #35

    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    I mean, everyone says they're willing to pay more for education.
    One wonders how the support/don't support ratio would differ if the money were going to education as opposed to directly to the general fund. One is not being a smartass, one legitimately wonders if this had been painted differently what the result would have been.

  11. #36

    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Based on the numbers I just looked up, don't the republicans hold a 83% majority in one house and a 70% in the other? Why does it matter if the opposition party opposes anything? They're numerically irrelevant.
    Because it requires a 75% vote in both for any increases, and that assumes you can get 100% of a given party to vote a certain way.

  12. #37

    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by stile99 View Post
    One wonders how the support/don't support ratio would differ if the money were going to education as opposed to directly to the general fund. One is not being a smartass, one legitimately wonders if this had been painted differently what the result would have been.
    I don't like the idea of directing any revenues to a specific cause, personally.

  13. #38

    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Because it requires a 75% vote in both for any increases, and that assumes you can get 100% of a given party to vote a certain way.
    Oh, it's 75%? For some reason I was thinking 2/3s.

    Good lord.

  14. #39

    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Oh, it's 75%? For some reason I was thinking 2/3s.

    Good lord.
    Yeah, good ol state question 640 from 1992, requires 3/4s of both houses or a vote of the people to increase a tax. It was a terrible SQ and those who were old enough to vote for it and did should be ashamed. I'm not a fan of raising taxes, but hamstringing the state this way was a terrible idea.

  15. Default Re: New license plates on the way

    David,
    Like California, we voted to require all tax increases be approved by the voters unless (I don't know about California on this part) a "Super" majority (75%) of the state house and senate pass a tax increase. It really ties our lawmakers hands. In theory, it sounds good, but in reality, it was a poor choice.
    C. T.

  16. Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Duplicate post (almost). Jerrywall beat me to it.
    C. T.

  17. #42

    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Oh I knew about that SQ, I just thought it was 2/3s and not 3/4s.

  18. #43

    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    As far as I can tell this passed, but was it signed?

  19. #44

    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    That being said - these companies aren't going to NOT harvest money making oil without incentives. I feel like tax incentives DO bring film companies and such to Oklahoma that wouldn't come otherwise. When it comes to oil? They're gonna drill baby drill, regardless.
    Yeah, we're giving incentives and tax breaks for something that has to be done here if they want the product. Really, we should tax oil and gas more and use it to pay for incentives for other industries that don't have to be here at all. Then, maybe, eventually we'd be so diversified that every oil bust wouldn't break the whole state and shut down schools. We've been doing it backwards which is why we are where we are.

    And I can't really get up in arms about the plates either, if it is indeed needed. I do think it's stupid that they are over whether it's a tax or fee. It's still much cheaper than most states. Either way, I don't think it's going to affect the education budget. They were cutting that even when we had money.

  20. Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by BDP View Post
    And I can't really get up in arms about the plates either, if it is indeed needed. I do think it's stupid that they are over whether it's a tax or fee.
    It cannot be a tax without a super majority vote of our house and senate, a fee is like an executive order, but in this case passed by the legislature. I'm not going to whine too much, but my tag that has never had a drop of rain or a snowflake on it is going to have to be replaced at my cost and I am a retiree on a fixed income. Yes, I can afford it, but why should I? Replacing my "FBC" tags (Fight Breast Cancer) is probably the right thing to do, but why replace my regular tag that has never been mounted on a car?
    Whining over,
    C. T.
    C. T.

  21. #46

    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    new design ... (each Side) $$ 234oka $$ Refective Black
    (Bottom) OKLAHOMA Green color
    (Top) Land of fees Brown color

  22. #47

    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Looks like the new plate design will be revealed today. TLO managed to snag a peek.

    (From today's Lost Ogle)

  23. #48

    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Meh.

    Hard to make out even that it's a bird and few people would understand the flycatcher.

  24. #49

    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    Well that looks pretty bad...

  25. #50

    Default Re: New license plates on the way

    I kinda like it....

    I'll see myself out

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