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Thread: Broadway Park

  1. #126

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    ^^^^^^^^
    Again, two wrongs don't make a right.
    Again, not a good look. If the developer had a different last name, this would have gone forward.

    Also, not impressed with Rand's recent work, including the Contemporary.

  2. Default Re: Broadway Park

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    Again, not a good look. If the developer had a different last name, this would have gone forward...
    Do you mean a different name like Nichols or Hall, or do you mean a different name like Smith or Jones?

  3. #128

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    Do you mean a different name like Nichols or Hall, or do you mean a different name like Smith or Jones?
    The former.

  4. #129

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    They have filed an application with the Board of Adjustment to overturn the decision of the Downtown Design Review Committee; I would be surprised if they don't win their appeal:







  5. #130

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    Well, they hired the right lawyer to lead the charge...

  6. #131

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    At considerable expense, no doubt.

    Effectively, a tax on this developer.

  7. #132

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    You think one of the reasons Elliot is so against this is because it would possibly block the skyline view from the Contemporary Art building?

  8. #133
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    Default Re: Broadway Park

    Quote Originally Posted by sroberts24 View Post
    You think one of the reasons Elliot is so against this is because it would possibly block the skyline view from the Contemporary Art building?
    How does one have a skyline view with few or no windows anyway? Or are there windows under a screen?

  9. #134

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    Quote Originally Posted by shawnw View Post
    How does one have a skyline view with few or no windows anyway? Or are there windows under a screen?
    Touché

  10. #135

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    At considerable expense, no doubt.

    Effectively, a tax on this developer.
    Is there any way the city would be liable to compensate for attorney fees, if it is found that the board acting on behalf of the city exceeded their bounds with the denial? In other words, this would have never been appealed if the initial board did their job correctly.

  11. #136

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    Is there any way the city would be liable to compensate for attorney fees, if it is found that the board acting on behalf of the city exceeded their bounds with the denial? In other words, this would have never been appealed if the initial board did their job correctly.
    Good question. My assumption would be no, unless they have to go past BOA to District Court?

  12. #137

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    Quote Originally Posted by cafeboeuf View Post
    Good question. My assumption would be no, unless they have to go past BOA to District Court?
    It's a shame if so, it's an unnecessary expense. It's like getting pulled over for going exactly the speed limit, and the city not refunding your ticket and court costs for the appeal. From what it sounds, the developer has complied with the letter of the law, and the board was acting out of their bounds. This should not be the deceloper's cost to appeal.

  13. #138

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    Update from Steve: Automobile Alley Association guidelines, architect's influence at question in debate over five-story Broadway Park project | Oklahoman.com. As presented it's a pretty damning critique of Rand Elliott's actions in regards to this proposal.

    Should be accessible to non-subscribers, I think.

  14. #139

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    We need about one of these type of projects at every intersection in the core, with wraparound retail feeding East West and North South street interaction and balconies with retail or flats for residential on the 2-4 stories. And some intersections should have one at each corner. The opposition is petty and pathetic.

  15. #140

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    Betsy Brunstetter, chair of the Downtown Design Review Committee, does not believe Elliott's last-minute request for brick balconies led to the committee not approving the project. Three members of the committee, however, did spend the final moments of the debate discussing the concern.

    “I feel like we tried to treat them as fairly as possible,” Brunstetter said. “They made several big changes and I thought they were good. But I didn't think the designs were complete.”

    Makin and Muhammad say they were convinced after the third hearing they were doomed to face even more challenges from Elliott if they didn't take the matter to the Board of Adjustment. Makin also questions whether Elliott should continue to hold such sway over other architects' projects.

    “He said the building was dangerous to the neighborhood,” Makin said. “I knew he was after me then. It was disappointing. I though the professional thing to do, since we know each other and had never been adversaries before, was to sit down with me. But he shut me down. I felt that was very unprofessional.”

    Yea, okay. Elliot and his (probable) friends on the committee need to lose this grudge against Mr Muhammad.

    It is like they are trying to get him to pack up and leave that site.

  16. #141

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Update from Steve: Automobile Alley Association guidelines, architect's influence at question in debate over five-story Broadway Park project | Oklahoman.com. As presented it's a pretty damning critique of Rand Elliott's actions in regards to this proposal.

    Should be accessible to non-subscribers, I think.
    This is emblematic of how things are at the city planning offices at this time. Permitting and getting projects moving has become a ridiculous endeavor.

  17. #142

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    After watching the Guyutes saga with the Planning Commission and now this fiasco, these appointed committees and boards need to be purged of the egotistical idiots that inhabit them, or at the very least, be herded into a room and taught the meaning and implications of the phrase "arbitrary and capricious" and tested until they understand the statutory limits of their position and what they may consider and rule on.

  18. #143

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    These committee members are there to oversee guidelines and make sure they are followed.

    Yet, if you watch any of these meetings you get a lot of comments such as, "I'd don't care for this design element" or in a district where there are no parking requirements "where are all these people going to park?" or "I'm worried about the noise" although there are already existing noise ordinances.

    NOT YOUR JOB!!!

    All it takes is one person to stand up in a meeting and complain and the members often bend over backwards to appease such NIMBY's -- and do much more than that if the complainer is well-known -- and at the very least cause substantial delays and at worst are acting as obstructionists to people wanting to invest a ton of money and their own blood, sweat and tears into OKC.

    And then things like Chase Bank just sail through.

  19. #144

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    Wouldn't it make the most sense to have multiple well known architects on this committee so there are multiple opinions? Maybe add Brian Fitzsimmons and Anthony McDermid?

  20. #145

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    Quote Originally Posted by warreng88 View Post
    Wouldn't it make the most sense to have multiple well known architects on this committee so there are multiple opinions? Maybe add Brian Fitzsimmons and Anthony McDermid?
    Fitzsimmons is on Urban Design and McDermid used to be on the DDRC.

    The chairperson for the DDRC is an architect at ADG.

  21. #146

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    Quote Originally Posted by warreng88 View Post
    Wouldn't it make the most sense to have multiple well known architects on this committee so there are multiple opinions? Maybe add Brian Fitzsimmons and Anthony McDermid?
    With one of those folks allegedly orchestrating self-serving hijinks in SOSA and the other engaged to the Planning Director, I'm not sure I want them as part of the "solution".

  22. #147

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    Yeah, the central problem is that OKC is too intertwined to get any real objectivity in these decisions.

    As much as I sometimes complain, I know there would be many times I would hate to have to make the tough choices they are often faced with. Especially as a local business owner.

    The reality is that such decisions rarely have to do with just the issue before the committee; there are issues regarding relationships, axes to grind, friendships, business relationships, property ownership, etc., etc.

  23. #148

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    We are now about 2 hours into discussion about this project at the Board of Adjustment.

    After all that, the two sides agreed to a 2-week continuance in the hopes they could reach agreement on the balconies (how designed and constructed, as they will remain) as that is the only outstanding issue with the Auto Alley (Rand Elliott) group.

  24. #149

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    The first part of video reminds me of Broadway Park.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iHdFd2RKRSI

  25. #150

    Default Re: Broadway Park

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    Is there any way the city would be liable to compensate for attorney fees, if it is found that the board acting on behalf of the city exceeded their bounds with the denial? In other words, this would have never been appealed if the initial board did their job correctly.
    Depends on state law, but I believe so in Oklahoma, especially given the circumstances that Pete summarized.

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