Exit only lanes

[MagzOK]

I don't really worry about it and just drive.

[Uptowner]

I don't totally disagree with you. But the 2 lane section I'm referring to is the original section of I-35 between 4th and just south of wilshire. laid back in the 70's when I-235 aka Broadway aka highway 77 and memorial road aka Route 66 were the national crossroads. The 3 lane section you're referring to is part of the expansion of I-35 and the turnpike from the not too distant past(the mid 2000's I think). Which, and I could be wrong, was largely funded by the turnpike to flow traffic up to the kilpatrick and turner. I don't recall the funding/reason for expanding to six lanes from turnpike to 2nd, likely for the same reasons. In the 90's it was 2 lanes throughout the state save the 235 interchange. But I can agree, like most of our roads, it was poorly engineered. 23rd makes some sense because it connects I-44 west and 35 south to highway 66 which was an important road before I-40.

[traxx]

I don't totally disagree with you. But the 2 lane section I'm referring to is the original section of I-35 between 4th and just south of wilshire. laid back in the 70's when I-235 aka Broadway aka highway 77 and memorial road aka Route 66 were the national crossroads. The 3 lane section you're referring to is part of the expansion of I-35 and the turnpike from the not too distant past(the mid 2000's I think). Which, and I could be wrong, was largely funded by the turnpike to flow traffic up to the kilpatrick and turner. I don't recall the funding/reason for expanding to six lanes from turnpike to 2nd, likely for the same reasons. In the 90's it was 2 lanes throughout the state save the 235 interchange. But I can agree, like most of our roads, it was poorly engineered. 23rd makes some sense because it connects I-44 west and 35 south to highway 66 which was an important road before I-40.

I'm pretty sure Memorial Rd. was never a Route 66 road. Also, I think I-35 between 122nd in OKC and 2nd in Edmond has been three lanes since before 2005. I don't have any documentation to back that up, I'm just going on memory here.

[Uptowner]

It wasn't. Kelly was. But you had to make a slight left on memorial where it dead-ended, then right to access Broadway which went up to danforth/sr66. It marked the spot where the highways merged for a few miles. I'm only going off memory as well for the section north of turner turnpike. I only go that far north of I'm driving to Kansas. But my memory of the section between I-44 and turnpike expansion dates somewhere in the early-mid 2000's

[Just the facts]

If we were building a freeway from scratch today there is no rational reason we would build it to resemble anything we are stuck with today.

First, thru traffic should never have to change lanes. You should be able to stay in the same lane from south of Norman to north of Edmond if you are on I-35.

Second, all entrance and exit ramps should be on the left - so expansion would always be on the right side and only a single traffic light is needed on the overpass.

Third, the on ramp lane should become the next off ramp lane. For the love of pete I can't figure out why ODOT didn't continue the Robinson on-ramp lane southbound to Main St. They only need about 200 more feet of paint.

[rte66man]

Along I-40 west of Amarillo.

Here is one I found pretty quickly on street view. I don't know how many of them there are that are paved vs. the ones that are not, I could have missed some as I was going through at night when I actually pulled over my car on the shoulder to verify I saw what I thought I saw, and realized Texas actually has at grade intersections on a supposed interstate. I am not sure if they only do this on this section of I-40 or not, but it is a bad practice none the less because it sets a bad precedent, imo.

I'm going to eventually send a letter via email to the FHWA and TxDOT about this and see what their take on this is and I'm interested in hearing TxDOT's defense of building these. I have never seen this anywhere but West Texas on I-40.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1918...7i13312!8i6656

There is an interesting thread over on AA Roads (for those interested in a complete explanation):
At-grade intersections on Interstates in Texas

The short explanation is that these are ranch access roads. They have such little cross traffic that it is financially foolish to build interchanges. There are a number of them on I-10 in west Texas too.

[rte66man]

If we were building a freeway from scratch today there is no rational reason we would build it to resemble anything we are stuck with today.

First, thru traffic should never have to change lanes. You should be able to stay in the same lane from south of Norman to north of Edmond if you are on I-35.

That is why you see interchanges such as the Fort Smith junction designed so that exact thing happens. It's unfortunate that the Dallas junction was designed before that became a generally accepted standard.

Second, all entrance and exit ramps should be on the left - so expansion would always be on the right side and only a single traffic light is needed on the overpass.

That is a TERRIBLE idea. In general, the traffic closest to the inside should be the "fast" lanes. When you have all your exits in the fast lanes, traffic really snarls and the number of accidents increases. That is the chief reason Houston has rebuilt many of their 5-level stack interchanges to eliminate all left-hand exits.

Third, the on ramp lane should become the next off ramp lane. For the love of pete I can't figure out why ODOT didn't continue the Robinson on-ramp lane southbound to Main St. They only need about 200 more feet of paint.

I totally agree. It is also the reason that (bringing this topic back to the subject of this thread) the OP sees an exit only lane northbound between Wilshire and Britton.

[Plutonic Panda]

There is an interesting thread over on AA Roads (for those interested in a complete explanation):
At-grade intersections on Interstates in Texas

The short explanation is that these are ranch access roads. They have such little cross traffic that it is financially foolish to build interchanges. There are a number of them on I-10 in west Texas too.

Awesome! I just joined yesterday. Thanks a million for that link. I'll probably chime in on that thread.

[MagzOK]

Third, the on ramp lane should become the next off ramp lane. For the love of pete I can't figure out why ODOT didn't continue the Robinson on-ramp lane southbound to Main St. They only need about 200 more feet of paint.

Have you written them and suggested such a change? I made a similar suggestion via letter for the NB lanes of I235 there at the I44 clover leaf: make the entrance ramp from 44 have it's own dedicated lane on up to 63rd, because the end of the entrance lane to merge onto NBI235 ends and about 50 feet later a new third lane appears.

[traxx]

I totally agree. It is also the reason that (bringing this topic back to the subject of this thread) the OP sees an exit only lane northbound between Wilshire and Britton.

That's not what I was talking about.

On I-35 northbound, the lane that is the far right lane on I-35 south of I-40 becomes the middle lane north of 4th St. and then becomes the far right lane (slow lane) again after 23rd St. That lane becomes an exit only lane and exits onto Wilshire. The lane that had been the fast lane from the I-40 interchange becomes the slow lane north of Wilshire.

So if someone has been traveling in that lane since they were south of I-40 and then it suddenly becomes an exit only at Wilshire, that can be a shock.

[rte66man]

That's not what I was talking about.

On I-35 northbound, the lane that is the far right lane on I-35 south of I-40 becomes the middle lane north of 4th St. and then becomes the far right lane (slow lane) again after 23rd St. That lane becomes an exit only lane and exits onto Wilshire. The lane that had been the fast lane from the I-40 interchange becomes the slow lane north of Wilshire.

So if someone has been traveling in that lane since they were south of I-40 and then it suddenly becomes an exit only at Wilshire, that can be a shock.

Since you are talking about a road that was built over 5 DECADES, your expectation isn't reasonable. I35 south of I40 was designed/built in the late 70's (the part over the Oklahoma River), the Fort Smith junction was finished less than 10 years ago, the part north of 10th up to 63rd was built in the early 60's, and the part from there to Wilshire and beyond was again built in the 80's. The minimization of I35 from 63rd to Wilshire is one of the reasons the I44/35 interchange will be rebuilt.

[rte66man]

I'm pretty sure Memorial Rd. was never a Route 66 road. Also, I think I-35 between 122nd in OKC and 2nd in Edmond has been three lanes since before 2005. I don't have any documentation to back that up, I'm just going on memory here.

You are correct. Memorial was never a part of US66. It had been moved to the NE Expy when the Turner Turnpike was opened in 1953. Before the Broadway Extension was built, 66 went north on Lincoln, made a short jog east to Kelley, then went straight north to Broadway. From there up to 2nd, then east.

[HOT ROD]

There are exit only lanes up here in Seattle too, just about every exit is its own lane - often combine that with so-called SLIP lanes; all are meant to keep the main flow of traffic moving while allowing flexibility for those departing (and in the case of SLIP lanes, merging).

[traxx]

Since you are talking about a road that was built over 5 DECADES, your expectation isn't reasonable. I35 south of I40 was designed/built in the late 70's (the part over the Oklahoma River), the Fort Smith junction was finished less than 10 years ago, the part north of 10th up to 63rd was built in the early 60's, and the part from there to Wilshire and beyond was again built in the 80's. The minimization of I35 from 63rd to Wilshire is one of the reasons the I44/35 interchange will be rebuilt.

So just because the sections were built in different decades then it's unreasonable to expect the lanes and the flow to make sense? I believe that good planning to alleviate this issue. Or instead of having the entire lane be an exit, just have an exit ramp and have the lane continue on.

Look at the same piece of I-35 northbound where Sooner comes onto it. Sooner comes in and makes a fourth lane but then that same lane serves as an exit lane for Memorial. That's how an exit only lane should be done.

[Just the facts]

That is a TERRIBLE idea. In general, the traffic closest to the inside should be the "fast" lanes. When you have all your exits in the fast lanes, traffic really snarls and the number of accidents increases. That is the chief reason Houston has rebuilt many of their 5-level stack interchanges to eliminate all left-hand exits.

The outside lane would become the fast lane.

Another good idea would be lane-specific speed limits.

[Uptowner]

You are correct. Memorial was never a part of US66. It had been moved to the NE Expy when the Turner Turnpike was opened in 1953. Before the Broadway Extension was built, 66 went north on Lincoln, made a short jog east to Kelley, then went straight north to Broadway. From there up to 2nd, then east.

It's bordering on semantics but my statement about memorial being part of rt 66 was the few hundred foot transition from where kelly dead ends. And memorial connected to us77/Broadway for a few miles until it breaks off east again. It was the crossroads junction of two original 1926 routes. 77 by 1930 extended from Mexico via Brownsville to Milpark, SD.

I don't mean to nerd out on it so badly. But a dear friend of mine from England is an amateur Route 66 historian. He comes and stays with us twice a year on his semi-annual pilgrimage and talks our ears off about everything rt 66.

[rte66man]

It's bordering on semantics but my statement about memorial being part of rt 66 was the few hundred foot transition from where kelly dead ends. And memorial connected to us77/Broadway for a few miles until it breaks off east again. It was the crossroads junction of two original 1926 routes. 77 by 1930 extended from Mexico via Brownsville to Milpark, SD.

I don't mean to nerd out on it so badly. But a dear friend of mine from England is an amateur Route 66 historian. He comes and stays with us twice a year on his semi-annual pilgrimage and talks our ears off about everything rt 66.

I will get some scans of my 30's era maps but here is an aerial from 1954 that clearly shows that Kelley curves just north of Memorial to become Broadway. For those who've always wondered, that is why it is the Broadway Extension south of Memorial. Your friend is misinformed.

Memorial at Kelley - 1954 by rte66man, on Flickr

[rte66man]

The outside lane would become the fast lane.

So you would have OKC go against the normal traffic laws of every country on this planet (except the Brits and certain of their Commonwealth brethren)?

Another good idea would be lane-specific speed limits.

How on earth would you enforce that? We can't even get people to stop being LLBs (left lane blockers).

[rte66man]

I will get some scans of my 30's era maps but here is an aerial from 1954 that clearly shows that Kelley curves just north of Memorial to become Broadway. For those who've always wondered, that is why it is the Broadway Extension south of Memorial. Your friend is misinformed.

Memorial at Kelley - 1954 by rte66man, on Flickr

Here is the same intersection in 1969. US66 had long been moved off of Kelley and 77 now went straight south on Broadway.

Memorial at Kelley - 1969 by rte66man, on Flickr

[KayneMo]

One problem that needs to be addressed are that some of these exit lanes need more lanes, particularly where I-35 (at 235 and 40) and I-44 (at 74, 3, and 39th) shift off of the mainline. Interstate standards say there should be at least two lanes in each direction, in which these two interchanges fall below. Minneapolis addresses this problem well with I-35W, the interstate shifts off of the mainline numerous times but always maintains at least two lanes in each direction. Attached is an image of 35W in downtown Minneapolis. I really like the design of this interchange and I think it could be very suitable for both 35 and 44 in OKC.

I-35W is blue.
I-94 is red.
SH-65 is yellow.

[rte66man]

One problem that needs to be addressed are that some of these exit lanes need more lanes, particularly where I-35 (at 235 and 40) and I-44 (at 74, 3, and 39th) shift off of the mainline. Interstate standards say there should be at least two lanes in each direction, in which these two interchanges fall below. Minneapolis addresses this problem well with I-35W, the interstate shifts off of the mainline numerous times but always maintains at least two lanes in each direction. Attached is an image of 35W in downtown Minneapolis. I really like the design of this interchange and I think it could be very suitable for both 35 and 44 in OKC.

I-35W is blue.
I-94 is red.
SH-65 is yellow.

I've sat in northbound traffic on 35W south of downtown too many times to agree with this. Unless you drive it every day, you don't know which lane to be in until it's too late to move over. I think the Crosstown Commons rebuild is a much better example:

2016-02-16_20-47-45 by rte66man, on Flickr