VisionTulsa (Tulsa’s version of MAPS) to go to voters April 5th

[jerrywall]

BMX = Bicycle Motocross. Extreme Bicycle racing. Matt Hoffman, from Edmond is a BMX pioneer. If you have ever seen bikes at a skate park, those are BMX bikes. It's certainly a niche thing, but having a national headquarters for it in OK is pretty awesome.

I also think they're getting an Olympic training center along with this as well.

[Eric]

Eric, to be fair, I think the low water dams that you hear about being removed are the older, uglier, death trap low water dams. Supposedly these new ones are designed better, and should be somewhat aesthetically pleasing (or so they want us to believe). I agree that Tulsa is perpetually behind the times, but damming the river is kind of an inevitable improvement.

This vote capitalized on low voter turnout and by spreading the pork out enough so that lots of interest groups could have a piece. Pretty classic setup. I'm not outraged, but it does leave a poor taste in my mouth.

Something about the fact that there had to be a street maintenance package leads me to believe these dams may be in that kind of shape at some point in the future. I guess I am just pessimistic today.

That and I just don't like the idea that we are messing with nature. I'm no tree huger, but this to me adds no real value to anything, and to boot it costs a boat load of money, and does not solve a problem. Heck there really isn't even a perceived problem with the river except that it doesn't look the way people think it should...which is not a real problem.

I live in Bartlesville which was founded along the banks of the Caney river. The river used to be a part of every day life around here (fishing, swimming, etc) until damns started going in upstream. Then downtown started flooding every 20 years (in the 100 year flood plane). Fixing one problem always seems to cause another unexpectedly.

My guess is the "problem" that will be caused by this is that these are supposed to spur economic development, but 10 years from now we will need more taxpayer dollars to actually do so.

Again, me being pessimistic probably.

[Bellaboo]

I think it a crying out loud shame to dam it up. But my view is a bit skewed. I collect indian artifacts and the river is a great source for recovery. I usually drive once or twice a year and spend the weekend at Sand Springs hunting. IMO, it'd be a shame for some of these relics to be lost forever.

Does anyone know the extent of how much surface (and where) will be covered ?

[Swake]

The river already isn't natural. The Keystone dam makes sure of that with the dam usually being mostly closed except during peak power generation hours. The current irregular flow isn't at all natural.

The first dam just replaces the current Zink dam at 33rd Street, it won't greatly change the size of Zink Lake. The second will impound water for 3-4 miles from 103rd Street to past 71st Street.

The Creek Nation's portion of the funding is for an $18 million endowment for upkeep.

[Eric]

The Creek Nation's portion of the funding is for an $18 million endowment for upkeep.

Where did you find that, because this is the last I saw...

Tulsa, Jenks and Creek leaders clarify dam funding plans | FOX23

[Swake]

Where did you find that, because this is the last I saw...

Tulsa, Jenks and Creek leaders clarify dam funding plans | FOX23

The Muscogee (Creek) Nation notified city officials in a Feb. 15 letter that it would not commit to providing funding “at the present time” to the river project, which is still pending approval from Jenks and Tulsa voters on April 5. City leaders have asked the Creek Nation for $18 million.
The money was to be used as a permanent endowment for maintenance of two dams proposed on the Arkansas River — a new Zink Dam and one between south Tulsa and Jenks.

Arkansas River project: Proposed south Tulsa/Jenks dam could be in limbo due to funding questions - Tulsa World: Government

The lack of a firm commitment is due to a new Chief being elected. The new Chief and the tribal council have said they will take up the funding request now that the vote has passed.

The Creek Nation has about half a billion dollars invested in developments on the section of the river impacted by the south dam between the Casino, Riverwalk and iFly Golf. The tribe also has a lot of land left to develop on this area of the river. They own the land north of The Riverwalk on the west bank to about 81st and have the land on the east bank south of the Casino to 91st and north of the Casino to about 77th. All of that becomes more valuable with the dam.

Combine everything the Creek Nation has here on the river with The Oklahoma Aquarium and the Simon outlet mall in Jenks on the west bank and this is going to be a good tourist spot. Jenks just gave the final approval for the TIF for the outlet mall last week.

[HOT ROD]

not to derail, but Maps 4 Kids was an OKC city initiative. OKC spans multiple school districts, so schools in those districts that reside in OKC city limits participated/received funding. Maps 4 kids did not fund suburb schools (like Edmond High, for example) that did not reside within the city of OKC limits. ...

just wanted to clarify, all OKC MAPS have been city, not metro.

[Plutonic Panda]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/elect...0c7429c58.html

[Laramie]

None of the other local municipal tax measures that were part of the April 5 Vision vote are affected. The unaffected measures include three city of Tulsa propositions that are expected to raise about $800 million for public safety, economic development and public transit. Those taxes take effect Jan. 1.

Hopefully, this will only affect a small measure of the Vision 2025 initiative which garnered 64% of the vote. It's important that Tulsa keeps the same momentum that Oklahoma City has with MAPS.

Our two largest metropolitan areas need local support for initiatives like MAPS & Vision 2025 to keep up with the current trends to make both cities attractive to business & industry seeking to expand into our state. Especially at a time when the State has hit a financial shortfall--making deep cuts to the bone.

[Swake]

Hopefully, this will only affect a small measure of the Vision 2025 initiative which garnered 64% of the vote. It's important that Tulsa keeps the same momentum that Oklahoma City has with MAPS.

Our two largest metropolitan areas need local support for initiatives like MAPS & Vision 2025 to keep up with the current trends to make both cities attractive to business & industry seeking to expand into our state. Especially at a time when the State has hit a financial shortfall--making deep cuts to the bone.

The county part of the vote was just $75 million out of the total of over $800 million in projects.

It seems the Tulsa World failed to publish all the needed notices for the county.

[Laramie]

The county part of the vote was just $75 million out of the total of over $800 million in projects.

It seems the Tulsa World failed to publish all the needed notices for the county.

Thanks Swake about the notices. The $75 million was that a part of the safety portion of the total package?

[Swake]

Thanks Swake about the notices. The $75 million was that a part of the safety portion of the total package?

No, it's some stuff at the fairgrounds and street widening for county streets.

[Swake]

Some dates are now being applied to the Vision projects:

The new pedestrian bridge at The Gathering Place will be built in 2018
New Zink Dam at The Gathering Place will be built in 2019
The Convention Center expansion/renovation/conversion of old arena in 2019
Gilcrease Museum expansion built in 2020
Tulsa Zoo Expansion in 2020
South Tulsa/Jenks dam built around 2024

http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/libr...00852ef67d.pdf

[TU 'cane]

Thanks Swake. I spoke with one of the "internal" people at Gilcrease recently and they said the expansion is still in the very early design/planning stages (the renderings we were given beforehand are, of course, not the final product), but they hope to pick things up soon.

Looking at the PDF you provided, if all this follows the reported timelines, it appears over half of all the Vision projects will be completed by 2022. Not too bad.

[soonerfan_in_okc]

Some dates are now being applied to the Vision projects:

The new pedestrian bridge at The Gathering Place will be built in 2018
New Zink Dam at The Gathering Place will be built in 2019
The Convention Center expansion/renovation/conversion of old arena in 2019
Gilcrease Museum expansion built in 2020
Tulsa Zoo Expansion in 2020
South Tulsa/Jenks dam built around 2024

http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/libr...00852ef67d.pdf

Thanks Swake. I spoke with one of the "internal" people at Gilcrease recently and they said the expansion is still in the very early design/planning stages (the renderings we were given beforehand are, of course, not the final product), but they hope to pick things up soon.

Looking at the PDF you provided, if all this follows the reported timelines, it appears over half of all the Vision projects will be completed by 2022. Not too bad.

I assume that the low water dams are still contingent on the Creek's approving their funding? Or has something changed.

[BG918]

I assume that the low water dams are still contingent on the Creek's approving their funding? Or has something changed.

Just the south dam at 103rd St which won't be built for another 5 years at the earliest. I don't doubt the Creek Nation will financially support the dam they have way too much invested around the river in this area, both on the Tulsa side with their $400 million casino/hotel and on the Jenks side with Riverwalk Crossing and Flying Tee.

[Swake]

I assume that the low water dams are still contingent on the Creek's approving their funding? Or has something changed.

The south dam only is contingent, and the funds can be from any outside entity not just the Creek Nation. The tribe does have something like half a billion dollars invested in the area around the dam so they have a large incentive to contribute.

[soonerfan_in_okc]

Just the south dam at 103rd St which won't be built for another 5 years at the earliest. I don't doubt the Creek Nation will financially support the dam they have way too much invested around the river in this area, both on the Tulsa side with their $400 million casino/hotel and on the Jenks side with Riverwalk Crossing and Flying Tee.

The south dam only is contingent, and the funds can be from any outside entity not just the Creek Nation. The tribe does have something like half a billion dollars invested in the area around the dam so they have a large incentive to contribute.

Ahh, I see. Thanks for the clarification. I thought that all 3 were contingent on their decision, not just the 103rd Dam.

I agree with you all that they will produce the funds, I just wish it had happened already.

[Swake]

Ahh, I see. Thanks for the clarification. I thought that all 3 were contingent on their decision, not just the 103rd Dam.

I agree with you all that they will produce the funds, I just wish it had happened already.

Just two dams are being built at this time. The replacement Zink dam at 33rd and Riverside and a new dam at 106th and Riverside. The Sand Springs dam was removed from the project list as too expensive with too little benefit.

[Spartan]

Tulsa could probably have funded a streetcar with Vision if they'd combined the funding for the BMX headquarters and various suburban business park incentives.

[Bellaboo]

Just two dams are being built at this time. The replacement Zink dam at 33rd and Riverside and a new dam at 106th and Riverside. The Sand Springs dam was removed from the project list as too expensive with too little benefit.

Great news. Building this SS dam would have halted the recovery of indian artifact treasures from this area of the river.