Bury the power lines

[Bill Robertson]

Also, an actual lineman probably doesn't know much at all about the real cost to install anything. Paying the bills would be someone else's job.

True. Adds to my point that someone from elsewhere would have to be consulted to determine costs and timelines for burying lines.

[Plutonic Panda]

Also, an actual lineman probably doesn't know much at all about the real cost to install anything. Paying the bills would be someone else's job.

This is great point and can’t be stressed enough. My first comment was mainly tongue in cheek by suggesting that we should take advice arbitrarily from linemen just because they work in the field. If that is the case, then certainly there are linemen out there who have buried lines and supports doing so.

[TheTravellers]

WTF is wrong with these people? Not even $1 extra per month???

"However, only just over 50% of the phone survey participants stated they were willing to pay more than $1 a month to support undergrounding efforts, while only half of those indicated they would be willing to pay more than $2.50 monthly."

https://oklahoman.com/article/567759...o-much-to-bear

[jedicurt]

WTF is wrong with these people? Not even $1 extra per month???

"However, only just over 50% of the phone survey participants stated they were willing to pay more than $1 a month to support undergrounding efforts, while only half of those indicated they would be willing to pay more than $2.50 monthly."

https://oklahoman.com/article/567759...o-much-to-bear

i mean it shouldn't surprise you. it's the same reason our roads are awful are schools are falling apart, and no major businesses want to relocate here.

[Bill Robertson]

WTF is wrong with these people? Not even $1 extra per month???

"However, only just over 50% of the phone survey participants stated they were willing to pay more than $1 a month to support undergrounding efforts, while only half of those indicated they would be willing to pay more than $2.50 monthly."

https://oklahoman.com/article/567759...o-much-to-bear

If it could be done for a long term commitment of something like $1 per month for bills averaging up to $75 a month then climbing as average bills increase to say $10 per month for bills averaging $500 and over. I would jump all over it.

[TheTravellers]

i mean it shouldn't surprise you. it's the same reason our roads are awful are schools are falling apart, and no major businesses want to relocate here.

Yeah, I guess, "the people" have been voting against improvements here for a looooong time, but one lousy dollar *a month*? Isn't that how much one cigarette costs nowadays?

[TheTravellers]

If it could be done for a long term commitment of something like $1 per month for bills averaging up to $75 a month then climbing as average bills increase to say $10 per month for bills averaging $500 and over. I would jump all over it.

Personally, I'd easily pay $20 extra (or more) per month if it would actually result in it getting done, but then again, I'm at a good point in my life right now (for a while, I hope) and can afford it, but even if you're poor, it's just one damn dollar.....

[jerrywall]

It's the same people who opt out of the Emsacare in Edmond and then complain about the cost when they do need an ambulance.

[Bill Robertson]

Personally, I'd easily pay $20 extra (or more) per month if it would actually result in it getting done, but then again, I'm at a good point in my life right now (for a while, I hope) and can afford it, but even if you're poor, it's just one damn dollar.....

We're at that point and would pay more also. But my wife works with a lot of just barely getting by folks so I tend to think about that side of things too.

[TheTravellers]

It's the same people who opt out of the Emsacare in Edmond and then complain about the cost when they do need an ambulance.

Kinda sorta, but not really. I'm sure a lot of people don't sign up for EMSAcare (or however it's capitalized) because they think "I'll never need it, why bother, and if I do, I'll just pay or my insurance company will", whereas money spent towards burying lines would (theoretically) be actually used to do something concrete that people would get a benefit from. But then people would probably *still* say "Well, if it doesn't benefit *me*, why should I have to pay extra?" Puts paid to the "Oklahoma Standard", which I don't think is actually as big of a thing as people think it is...

[Plutonic Panda]

WTF is wrong with these people? Not even $1 extra per month???

"However, only just over 50% of the phone survey participants stated they were willing to pay more than $1 a month to support undergrounding efforts, while only half of those indicated they would be willing to pay more than $2.50 monthly."

https://oklahoman.com/article/567759...o-much-to-bear

I just hope OKC and Tulsa can really explode with growth & boom and get enough transplants to upset the typical cheap, small town mentality that plagues this state. It drives me nuts when I’m here to see the lack of investment and the cheap train many have decided to board.

[shawnw]

The events that led to the rise of Devon Tower was arguably one of our biggest growth spurts in modern times (wasn't it like 3000 per month at one point?) and, well, here we are. I suspect it would take a growth rate many times higher than even that. Which I could maybe see if the movie/TV business truly took off here. But I'm not holding my breath.

[Teo9969]

The events that led to the rise of Devon Tower was arguably one of our biggest growth spurts in modern times (wasn't it like 3000 per month at one point?) and, well, here we are. I suspect it would take a growth rate many times higher than even that. Which I could maybe see if the movie/TV business truly took off here. But I'm not holding my breath.

To be sure the issue with power lines involves a large swath of Oklahoma as a state, which we know has a very different citizen than the average OKC citizen.

To your point though the oil business just doesn't overwhelmingly attract the kind of people who would be causes for change on that front, and that was a large part of the boom from 2005 to 2015.

Here's what I see happening: There are a number of people who have stayed in OKC over the last 15 years because of the improved quality of life owed largely to a citizen/self-imposed tax. These individuals tend, at the very least, to not be so conservative that they refuse anything that costs them more money going to govt or public entities. Because they didn't leave looking for a better quality of life they will continue to invest in the community and they will raise families that are more proud to call OKC their home.

This lack of loss (juxtaposed to the losses of the 90s/early 00s) will be combined with people coming up from the DFW area and other positive migration that will lead to a substantially different socio-political dynamic in 10-15 years. At that time, OKC along with some suburbs will begin to seek out grander QoL initiatives that cost constituents money but that the constituents will be willing to pay. A few of the suburbs in OKC and maybe some of the OKC outskirts will still be filled with constituents who stick to their rigid, "not even $1.00/month more" mindsets, but it will not have enough influence in OKC and it will cause the suburbs filled with that type of constituent to fall further behind OKC and more forward-thinking suburbs.

[Plutonic Panda]

Tulsa gets it

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/go...ter_tulsaworld

[bombermwc]

I'm wondering if OKC could just pass an ordinance that requires that when new lines are run, they have to be underground and that when a certain level of maintenance is done, that they also have to go underground? Say a storm comes through and knocks out power. They get the lines up but then it triggers a stopwatch for a time by which they have to burry those lines (obviously those lines were susceptible to the storm/ice).

Now the trick is, don't just pass that cost on to the customer like they try to do with everything else. I never understood how this isn't part of doing business and how they shouldn't just be planning for these things or taking out loans to do them without raising rates (which never then go down when the project is paid for).

[TheTravellers]

I'm wondering if OKC could just pass an ordinance that requires that when new lines are run, they have to be underground and that when a certain level of maintenance is done, that they also have to go underground? Say a storm comes through and knocks out power. They get the lines up but then it triggers a stopwatch for a time by which they have to burry those lines (obviously those lines were susceptible to the storm/ice).

Now the trick is, don't just pass that cost on to the customer like they try to do with everything else. I never understood how this isn't part of doing business and how they shouldn't just be planning for these things or taking out loans to do them without raising rates (which never then go down when the project is paid for).

Get out of here with that logical thinking! And make sure the C-suite of ONG and OG&E doesn't know where you live, with you suggesting heretical ideas like not passing costs on to customers, they'll send a hit squad out...

[Jersey Boss]

I'm wondering if OKC could just pass an ordinance that requires that when new lines are run, they have to be underground and that when a certain level of maintenance is done, that they also have to go underground? Say a storm comes through and knocks out power. They get the lines up but then it triggers a stopwatch for a time by which they have to burry those lines (obviously those lines were susceptible to the storm/ice).

Now the trick is, don't just pass that cost on to the customer like they try to do with everything else. I never understood how this isn't part of doing business and how they shouldn't just be planning for these things or taking out loans to do them without raising rates (which never then go down when the project is paid for).

When was the last time an ordinance has been passed in any locality that either (a) was opposed by a the corporation or business that was impacted or (b) the state didn't intercede on behalf of the aggrieved business?

[Dob Hooligan]

I'm wondering if OKC could just pass an ordinance that requires that when new lines are run, they have to be underground and that when a certain level of maintenance is done, that they also have to go underground? Say a storm comes through and knocks out power. They get the lines up but then it triggers a stopwatch for a time by which they have to burry those lines (obviously those lines were susceptible to the storm/ice).

Now the trick is, don't just pass that cost on to the customer like they try to do with everything else. I never understood how this isn't part of doing business and how they shouldn't just be planning for these things or taking out loans to do them without raising rates (which never then go down when the project is paid for).

I believe the utilities are required by law to pass on costs to ratepayers. The Corporation Commission will review the request and set the amount that is recoverable after it is submitted.

Regardless, all "costs of doing business" are ultimately passed on to customers in an American, for profit business. I have no idea how they are going to do these upgrades for free.

[BoulderSooner]

I believe the utilities are required by law to pass on costs to ratepayers. The Corporation Commission will review the request and set the amount that is recoverable after it is submitted.

Regardless, all "costs of doing business" are ultimately passed on to customers in an American, for profit business. I have no idea how they are going to do these upgrades for free.

yep it is almost like it is a regulated utility ..

[BDP]

Regardless, all "costs of doing business" are ultimately passed on to customers in an American, for profit business.

Well, a regulated for profit monopoly, that is. It's not a normal American, for profit business. Certainly not a traditional free market example, anyway (not that any corporations of this size are anymore).

[Dob Hooligan]

A cost is going to be passed on to the customer in any business. Whether it is disguised somehow, a business still is going to charge more money than it takes in or it will fail. Or it will be subsidized by taxpayers.

[Bill Robertson]

A cost is going to be passed on to the customer in any business. Whether it is disguised somehow, a business still is going to charge more money than it takes in or it will fail. Or it will be subsidized by taxpayers.

This I believe. No matter how they package it PSO or OG&E isn't going to eat the cost of burying lines out of civic duty or the goodness of their hearts. The cost will somehow be passed on to the consumer.

[bombermwc]

Well things like the winter storms.....that chaps my butt. They do this work to fix the above ground lines that come down. Then they say that they're going to charge the customers for all of those repairs. Why should that not be part of them doing business? I bet if OG&E paid insurance to cover that as part of doing business, that the insurance company would strongly encourage them to burry that crap. OR that the insurance would cost so much, it would be most cost effective to burry it. Right now, our pockets are their insurance policy and they have absolutely zero reason to do anything like this. Rather, it's more beneficial to them to NOT do these things so they can create a rate hike.

Power generation is another example. If any company wants to expand, they take out a loan and then pay that back over time. OG&E just wants to have customers be its zero interest bank and charge us instead of having that loan be part of business. That expanded customer base you're supposedly serving with that new generation plant, should cover the cost of building that plant over time..ie paying back that loan. So why should we pay that? And why, when that plant is paid for, does the rate not come down? Oh, because there's some new reason that they've come up with in the interim that is going to magically need that same amount of money...now from the expanded customer base too.

It's just not something that seems to be fair to the customer. They're not exactly hurting for cash either folks. So it's not as though we're starving the utility by not paying them well. Their fleet trucks always seem to be new while school district maintenance fleets rattle around in 30 year old chevys. The corporation commission RARELY ever votes against the utilities. And when they actually do, the people on the board seem to end up in some scandle later and the board changes. It really is the corporation commission rather than the Fair Business/Customer Commission.

[Jersey Boss]

A cost is going to be passed on to the customer in any business. Whether it is disguised somehow, a business still is going to charge more money than it takes in or it will fail. Or it will be subsidized by taxpayers.

How about saving costs by being proactive with regard to line maintaince, questioning c- suite compensation, dividend payouts. I'm not saying that rates shouldn't increase but that shouldn't be the only source.

[Dob Hooligan]

How about saving costs by being proactive with regard to line maintaince, questioning c- suite compensation, dividend payouts. I'm not saying that rates shouldn't increase but that shouldn't be the only source.

Those things are all fine. They are being done on a regular basis.

My point is simply that there is no magic "cost of doing business" that isn't eventually going to be repaid by the customer. Whether through capex, or via loan payment, the business will take some period of time to pass that cost on to the customer. Increased efficiency might allow them to charge less than originally planned, but they will still make more money than they pay.