Servers in OKC

[Bill Robertson]

My wife doesn't read things on here but we just had a conversation about this thread. Her take: Society and the language a society uses evolve. What the "pro-socially acceptable" posters on this topic consider as acceptable would be considered too flippant and not acceptable to a person in colonial times. At that time a servers greeting would have been something like "Good day. My name is Gretchen Green, how may I be of service to you this evening sir (or madam). (Maybe with a curtsy). Now admit it, that would be weird today.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^
Yep. Eventually, you'll be greeted with a belch, a yawn or a fart, and will simply be pointed toward the buffet line with a middle finger and a grunt. And there will be people who swear they aren't offended by it, and some who come here to defend it as more authentic. Anything else would be "snoddy". Just call it "progress"!

[Pete]

The more I think about this the more I believe the issue may be regional than generational.

If you buy into the generational thing, it wouldn't explain why I almost never encountered these things in California.

Out there, you often get the aloof servers but almost never unprofessional ones. I really believe it's due to the strong competition for good serving jobs (both waiting and bartending), more sophisticated management and frankly, just way more competition between restaurants and bars. It's ruthless out there and that tends to raise standards across the board.

As I pointed out before, I think culturally people in OKC tend to lean towards friendliness over professionalism and I think that not only shows in the service, but in many of the opinions expressed in this thread.

[Rover]

The more I think about this the more I believe the issue may be regional than generational.

If you buy into the generational thing, it wouldn't explain why I almost never encountered these things in California.

Out there, you often get the aloof servers but almost never unprofessional ones. I really believe it's due to the strong competition for good serving jobs (both waiting and bartending), more sophisticated management and frankly, just way more competition between restaurants and bars. It's ruthless out there and that tends to raise standards across the board.

As I pointed out before, I think culturally people in OKC tend to lean towards friendliness over professionalism and I think that not only shows in the service, but in many of the opinions expressed in this thread.

It also points to the lack of importance Oklahomans tend to place on education, primarily, and anything cultural, secondarily. I am continually appalled at the lack of writing and speaking skills on reports, resumes, etc. which I receive in business. Even among college graduates, communication skills are lacking. It is far worse in Oklahoma than in offices I have had in Chicago, Dallas, and Los Angeles. Listen to our local radio talk show hosts and you will be appalled (that is, those who KNOW proper language skills will be). I agree that it doesn't seem to be generational. It seems to be a general anti-learning attitude here in Oklahoma. Here, it seems to be assumed you are a snob if you merely try to speak with good grammar skills.

[dankrutka]

^^^^^^^
Yep. Eventually, you'll be greeted with a belch, a yawn or a fart, and will simply be pointed toward the buffet line with a middle finger and a grunt. And there will be people who swear they aren't offended by it, and some who come here to defend it as more authentic. Anything else would be "snoddy". Just call it "progress"!

Oh good lord. Lol. Talk about misrepresenting someone else's argument.

[dankrutka]

It also points to the lack of importance Oklahomans tend to place on education, primarily, and anything cultural, secondarily. I am continually appalled at the lack of writing and speaking skills on reports, resumes, etc. which I receive in business. Even among college graduates, communication skills are lacking. It is far worse in Oklahoma than in offices I have had in Chicago, Dallas, and Los Angeles. Listen to our local radio talk show hosts and you will be appalled (that is, those who KNOW proper language skills will be). I agree that it doesn't seem to be generational. It seems to be a general anti-learning attitude here in Oklahoma. Here, it seems to be assumed you are a snob if you merely try to speak with good grammar skills.

Welp. I'm the main one arguing with you in this thread and I have a PhD, writing is a key part of how I make my living (and I love doing it), and I've dedicated my life to education. But, hey, whatever you say, boss.

[Motley]

I would not be offended as long as I didn't sense "attitude". I don't recall any issues with wait staff in restaurants, but the receptionist at a gym once rolled her eyes at me because she had stop gabbing in her phone to look me up in the system when I didn't bring my pass card. I immediately quit the place and registered a very strong complaint against her.

[Urbanized]

Oh good lord. Lol. Talk about misrepresenting someone else's argument.

You can't detect the facetiousness? Obviously it won't go that far, but it is the admittedly-extreme logical endpoint of some of what is being said. It's not just society "shifting" the idea of what is nice/polite and what is not; it is a de-emphasis on the entire idea of polite behavior. We become more desensitized to uncaring, disrespectful and even rude behavior, and politeness becomes something that not only is not expected; it is at times openly mocked.

[Stew]

It also points to the lack of importance Oklahomans tend to place on education, primarily, and anything cultural, secondarily. I am continually appalled at the lack of writing and speaking skills on reports, resumes, etc. which I receive in business. Even among college graduates, communication skills are lacking. It is far worse in Oklahoma than in offices I have had in Chicago, Dallas, and Los Angeles. Listen to our local radio talk show hosts and you will be appalled (that is, those who KNOW proper language skills will be). I agree that it doesn't seem to be generational. It seems to be a general anti-learning attitude here in Oklahoma. Here, it seems to be assumed you are a snob if you merely try to speak with good grammar skills.

All you gots ta do is read you some of that there Shakespeare to knows that language evolves over time. Fifty years from today folks will be saying the same thing about how folks communicates these days. The ultimate goal of language is communication. Like the french say, plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

[Rover]

Welp. I'm the main one arguing with you in this thread and I have a PhD, writing is a key part of how I make my living (and I love doing it), and I've dedicated my life to education. But, hey, whatever you say, boss.

Having a PHD says nothing about your literacy. I have a family member with a technical PHD who can't spell three words in a row correctly. He writes proposals also, but is in a field where it has been overlooked. I am not saying you are that way, but merely having a PHD in an unrelated field doesn't prove or disprove the argument.

I still stand by my statement...many Okies see no value in speaking well and cannot understand why others from elsewhere think we are a bunch of hicks living here.

[Rover]

All you gots ta do is read you some of that there Shakespeare to knows that language evolves over time. Fifty years from today folks will be saying the same thing about how folks communicates these days. The ultimate goal of language is communication. Like the french say, plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

This isn't about style, it's about speaking and writing with proper grammer, even in today's context. There were poorly spoken individuals in Shakespear's time and there are poorly spoken individuals today. If street English or farm English is what you want to use, more power to you. (Sorry, didn't mean to offend farmers...I actually know some very well spoken farmers).

[Jim Kyle]

This isn't about style, it's about speaking and writing with proper grammer, even in today's context. There were poorly spoken individuals in Shakespear's time and there are poorly spoken individuals today. If street English or farm English is what you want to use, more power to you. (Sorry, didn't mean to offend farmers...I actually know some very well spoken farmers).

Pot, meet kettle!

Normally I don't bother to point out misspellings; I suffer from fat-finger syndrome all to frequently my own self. However, given the subject of this thread I'm making an exception.

When I came back after a couple of years spent in a suburb of L.A. I did notice the strong regional accent of all the broadcast announcers, once we passed the state line. However, today they all seem to have "network standard" voices. As for spelling and grammar, I blame the (lack of) educational standards nationwide for that....

[Rover]

Pot, meet kettle!

Normally I don't bother to point out misspellings; I suffer from fat-finger syndrome all to frequently my own self. However, given the subject of this thread I'm making an exception.

When I came back after a couple of years spent in a suburb of L.A. I did notice the strong regional accent of all the broadcast announcers, once we passed the state line. However, today they all seem to have "network standard" voices. As for spelling and grammar, I blame the (lack of) educational standards nationwide for that....

Touché Lol

[Pete]

Last night at Mickey Mantle's bar, I was first called 'sir' by a pretty professional bartender then ultimately it was 'my friend'.

Better than 'ace' or 'chief' but I still didn't like it.


BTW, I now know why I had never been in that place... They allow smoking and fully half the people that place were puffing away. I only realized they allowed it after I had already met a friend there and were deep into a long conversation, so both of us were more or less stuck and it occurred to me it was the first time I had been around smoke in years and it was also the first time I had actually *seen* a bunch of people smoking in an equally long time.

I'll save my non-smoking rant for another time and place but it's simply stunning to me in this era that in a really nice place like Mickey's that a good number of people are in their smoking their heads off. And I suspect most visitors -- and there are plenty due to the surrounding hotels and name recognition of the restaurant -- would be equally shocked because there are precious few cities in the Western world where this still goes on.

It was the first time I realized how badly this reflects on OKC -- and believe me, to most outsiders, it does.

[Jeepnokc]

Last night at Mickey Mantle's bar, I was first called 'sir' by a pretty professional bartender then ultimately it was 'my friend'.

Better than 'ace' or 'chief' but I still didn't like it.


BTW, I now know why I had never been in that place... They allow smoking and fully half the people that place were puffing away. I only realized they allowed it after I had already met a friend there and were deep into a long conversation, so both of us were more or less stuck and it occurred to me it was the first time I had been around smoke in years and it was also the first time I had actually *seen* a bunch of people smoking in an equally long time.

I'll save my non-smoking rant for another time and place but it's simply stunning to me in this era that in a really nice place like Mickey's that a good number of people are in their smoking their heads off. And I suspect most visitors -- and there are plenty due to the surrounding hotels and name recognition of the restaurant -- would be equally shocked because there are precious few cities in the Western world where this still goes on.

It was the first time I realized how badly this reflects on OKC -- and believe me, to most outsiders, it does.

I have heard that they will be going non smoking but haven't confirmed it. Has anyone else heard this?